Because they don't have any kind of argument for a lot of the charges made by so called 'apostates' then they prefer to just ignore the questions and make out that they are just 'bitter lies' that shouldn't be listened to.
That worked OK when you had to buy a book or meet someone to hear the arguments but more and more people can have a quick look on the Internet in the privacy of their own home.
And gues what ? People do and people are leaving and not the Internet is labeled as Evil and a tool of Satan. No articles about 'this wonder of modern communication' in the Awake expected anytime soon.
Caliban
JoinedPosts by Caliban
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59
What is the WT afraid of???????????????????
by Zep inok, since it was so easy to get on here i'm assuming that this place is also over run by wts critics...but anyway!.
i've read a plenty of wt mags and got sucked in enough by the whole thing to go to a few meetings and do a bible study( which i wouldn't really call a study, since we just read one of their books).i soon broke of the whole thing and didn't even read another mag for about 6 years...6 months ago i wandered into h20 out of curiosity and ended up reading up on the arguments against the wts.. i have a simple question, and its probably very naive to ask this...but why is wts so afraid of debate?...there are plenty of sites arguing against the wts...but none for, apart the official site which doesn't address the issues raised by so called "apostates" anyway.. if the wt has the the truth why dont they just refute the the arguments against them instead of shutting up shop and labelling anyone who questions them an "apostate?
" or from satan or something.. i'm really beginning to think that all this wt business is just waste of time, that if i were to go to kh and ask questions that i have, i'm more likely to be labelled a trouble making agent of satan rather than be taken at face value as someone with serious questions.
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Caliban
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8
Kissing Hanks Ass
by Caliban inhe can do what ever he wants and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass.".
john: "then come kiss hank's ass with us.".
john: "of course, hank dictated it.".
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Caliban
Awe c'mon...it's funny...
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Preacher Jimmy Swaggart and JW Lawyers
by waiting inin the supreme court of the united states, october tenth, 1988, case no.
88-1374, filed on june 22, 1988, clerk joseph f. spanol, jr.. on that date and file number, the attoreny james m. mccabe,and donald t. ridley, 25 colombia heights, brooklyn, ny 11251 (718)606-4993, attorneys for amicus curiae, watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc. filed a "friends of the court" brief on the behalf of the famous preacher, jimmy swaggart and his ministries.. why would the watchtower society, direct channel for jehovah's holy spirt, which also godly hates babylon the great, which also christiandom is the largest part, go into the supreme court of the united states and file a legal brief to help jimmy swaggart's ministries in his trial which was case no.
88-1374: jimmy swaggart ministries, appelant vs. board of equalization of california, appeller?.
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Caliban
I think the situation in France was much more serious. Here they actually refused to pay taxes which we mustn't forget was a direct command from Jesus. And it's no defence to claim that the taxes weren't fair - the Roman taxes weren't fair back then which was why they were asking if they needed to pay them.
They made a complete fuss about it in the WatchTower but never ONCE mentioned the reasons that they were being told to pay them. And WHY they had been classed as a cult. -
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Kissing Hanks Ass
by Caliban inhe can do what ever he wants and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass.".
john: "then come kiss hank's ass with us.".
john: "of course, hank dictated it.".
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Caliban
I found this brilliant parody on the web. It's quite thought provoking if you think about it...
This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple.The man spoke first: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."
Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss his ass?"
John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, he'll kick the shit out of you."
Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"
John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do what ever he wants and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass."
Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."
Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"
Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."
John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"
Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."
Me: "And has he given you a million dollars?"
John: "Well no, you don't actually get the money until you leave town."
Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"
Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and he kicks the shit out of you."
Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"
John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."
Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"
John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."
Me: "So what makes you think he'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"
Mary: "Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise; maybe you'll win a small lotto; maybe you'll just find a twenty dollar bill on the street."
Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"
John: "Hank has certain connections."
Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."
John: "But it's a million dollars! Can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit of you."
Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to him, get the details straight from him..."
Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."
Me: "Then how do you kiss his ass?"
John: "Sometimes we just blow him a kiss, and think of his ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."
Me: "Who's Karl?"
Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."
Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss his ass, and that Hank would reward you?"
John: "Oh no! Karl's got a letter Hank sent him years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."
John handed me a photocopy of a handwritten memo on "From the desk of Karl" letterhead. There were eleven items listed:
1.) Kiss Hank's ass and he'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
2.) Use alcohol in moderation.
3.) Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
4.) Eat right.
5.) Hank dictated this list himself.
6.) The moon is made of green cheese.
7.) Everything Hank says is right.
8.) Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
9.) Don't drink.
10.) Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
11.) Kiss Hank's ass or he'll kick the shit out of you.Me: "This would appear to be written on Karl's letterhead."
Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."
Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."
John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."
Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"
Mary: "Not now, but years ago he would talk to some people."
Me: "I thought you said he was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?"
Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."
Me: "How do you figure that?"
Mary: "Item 7 says Everything Hanks says is right.' That's good enough for me!"
Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."
John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."
Me: "But #9 says 'Don't Drink,' which doesn't quite go with #2. And #6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."
John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2; 9 just clarifies 2. As to 6, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."
Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."
Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from outer space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."
Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon came from the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."
John: "Aha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"
Me: "We do?"
Mary: "Of course we do, Item 5 says so."
Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because he says he's right.'"
John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."
Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"
Mary blushes.
John: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."
Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"
John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."
Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"
Mary looks positively stricken.
John shouts: "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"
Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"
Mary (sticking her fingers in her ears): "I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."
John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."
Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."
Mary faints.
John (catching her): "Well, if I'd known you were one of those, I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you, I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater." With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.
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A note to my elder 'friends'
by George inthe laugh is on you my elder 'friends.
' years ago you could prance up to the platform, stand behind the mic, and declare, 'brother parrish has been disfellowshipped' and no one would talk to me.
but those days are over my 'friends,' because there are many who talk to me anyway in spite of what you've said.
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Caliban
So what's the URL ?
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19
are you guys for real?
by Jokemyster ini came to this forum to maybe get you to think and use your own brains.......but the funny thing is you are........i just wonder why you stay in name only when so many of you are not likeing it, and dont believe anymore or dont believe all of it, what keeps you going when you dislike it so much?.are you afraid of loseing family?
face?
what?........i walked away and believe me its not bad at all..i have friends that are true to me and peace within my heart.
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Caliban
Hi JokeMyster
Don't forget that different people are at different stages of 'realisation' and that even when people have uncovered the truth (which can be extremely painful ) then it is still difficult and often not recommended to just 'leave' - especially when there are family members still in the congregation. -
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"Apostolic succession"?
by Jokemyster insince the wt organization claims "apostolic succession" who was it that passed the torch of gods spirit to c.t.russel when he founded the.
organization?
what denomination or faith?
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Caliban
Take a look at this [url= http://www.jwtruth.com/jwt/timeline.asp]Interactive JW Timeline[/url] - it shows how the early teachings developed and who developed them.
Select 'Early Influences' and then press the 'Update Chart' button. You will need to scroll down the chart to see the early stuff.
Lots of other info there too on other subjects - it really makes things clearer seeing when things happened in relation to each other. -
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What about new light?
by spectromize ini just wanted to ask a question concerning the expression," new light," whenever the brothers and sisters are talking and when we suddenly see a new point in the watchtower or a new teaching from the society as far as our beliefs such as the change in doctrine like the generation teaching.
is it really accurate to say new light or just plain and simple error ?.
you see i grew up as a catholic and before i became a witness we considered our church and the pope as god's representative.
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Caliban
It is unfortunate that even when they make a change on something that they still try and make out that they were correct before and after they made the change.
This is just dishonest and anyone with any sense can see it.
Now I'm sure there is something in the bible somewhere about what God thinks of liars... -
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Why are people 'Bad' ?
by Caliban inas far as i see it, people are bad / evil (call it what you will) because of two possible things:.
1. they are genetically that way.
they are born like that.. 2. the way they have been brought up has made them that way.. either way, the influences are out of their control.
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Caliban
Yes, I see your point and you are right - people can choose to do the right or wrong thing over every single decision.
I was thinking more of life in general though and whether people do bad things because they've had bad things done to them and it's all they know.
Does someone who has had a good upbringing in a nice house with good parents have a better chance of being 'generally good' than someone brought up in a rough area with abusive parents.
If so, then isn't judging them on their actions compared to others based on their environment and experiences just another bad deal for them ?
OR...
Does it not matter and both have an equal chance of becoming good / bad people ? -
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Why are people 'Bad' ?
by Caliban inas far as i see it, people are bad / evil (call it what you will) because of two possible things:.
1. they are genetically that way.
they are born like that.. 2. the way they have been brought up has made them that way.. either way, the influences are out of their control.
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Caliban
As far as I see it, people are bad / evil (call it what you will) because of two possible things:
1. They are genetically that way. They are born like that.
2. The way they have been brought up has made them that way.
Either way, the influences are out of their control. Is it fair then to judge them because of this ?
Any thoughts on this anyone ?