Thanks AlmostAtheist for the NWT link. I've checked them out and they seem ok. Maybe these aren't the best examples but I still think any reasonable person would view them as contradictions. To not do so would be to blind oneself. If they want to deceive themselves then I suppose nothing I show them will penetrate the closed mind.
cheeseman
JoinedPosts by cheeseman
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Contradictions and NWT
by cheeseman ini have 2 witnesses coming to my door in the near future.
they left me the "why you can trust the bible" tract which claims there are no contradictions in the bible.
so, in preparation i looked out some examples on the internet.
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Contradictions and NWT
by cheeseman ini have 2 witnesses coming to my door in the near future.
they left me the "why you can trust the bible" tract which claims there are no contradictions in the bible.
so, in preparation i looked out some examples on the internet.
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cheeseman
Why not confront them instead with a list of the Watchtower's false prophecies?
I may pursue this as an alternative. Thanks!
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Did God lie about Satans rebellion to justify his own actions?
by jeanniebeanz inkeeping in mind that his followers malign the reputation of departing witnesses regardless of their reasons for leaving, do you think that god made up lies about satan's motivations for rebelling in order to justify his own harsh course of action?.
just a rambling thought this morning.
jeannie
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cheeseman
God doesn't lie
Who said?...God said...well what a surprise!
HE LIES:
Joshua 7:1 says, "The people of Israel broke faith in regard to the devoted things; for Achan...took some of the devoted things; and the anger of the Lord burned against the people of Israel" and God responds by saying in the 11th verse, "Israel has sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant...." Yet, God did not tell the truth. Only Achan sinned, not all Israel, and Achan admits as much in the 20th verse by saying, "Indeed I have sinned against the Lord God of Israel...."
"He (David--Ed.) shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever" (2 Sam. 7:13) and to David God says, "thine house and thy kingdom shall be established forever: thy throne shall be established for ever" (2 Sam. 7:16). God's prophecy failed. He didn't tell the truth. The Davidic line ended with Zedekiah and there was no Davidic king for 450 years when the Maccabeans established a dynasty, the first king being Aristobulus. Since the end of the Maccabean dynasty there has never been a king of the Jews. Second Kings 24:14 proves as much by saying, "He carried away all Jerusalem, and all the princes, and all the mighty men of valour, even ten thousand captives, and all the craftsmen and smiths. None remained, save the poorest sort of the people of the land."
If viewed together the following verses also show God engaged in prevarication. "...of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eat thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen. 2:17), "God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die" (Gen. 3:3), "the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die" (Gen. 3:4), and "all the days that Adam lived were 930 years and he died" (Gen. 5:5). God said Adam and Eve would die on the day they ate of the tree and the devil said they would not. They ate of it and Adam lived to be 930 years old. In other words, God lied and the devil told the truth. Yet, according to Titus 1:2 "God never lies."
And finally, in Gen. 3:14 God said to the serpent, "...upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life...." Serpents do not now and never have eaten dust. If the serpent represents the Devil, he does not eat dust either; so, in either case God did not tell the truth.
HE DECEIVES:
"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived...." (Jer. 20:7). "if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel" (Ezek. 14:9). "Ah, Lord God! Surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reaches unto the soul" (Jer. 4:10). "...God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thess. 2:9-12). See also: 2 Chron. 18:18-22, 1 Kings 22:20-23 and Jer. 15:18.
HE TELLS PEOPLE TO LIE:
"...and thou (Moses--Ed.) shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and you shall say unto him, The Lord God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God" (Ex. 3:18) and "afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness." God is telling Moses to lie because the real reason is to escape.
"Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the Lord said, Take a heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the Lord" (1 Sam. 16:2). The Lord told Samuel to lie also, since he is actually going out to meet a son of Jesse to anoint him king. Yet, we are told in Prov. 12:22 that, "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord."
HE REWARDS LIARS:
Ex. 1:15-20 says, "The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah, 'When you help the Hebrew women in childbirth and observe them on the delivery stool, if it is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live.' The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live. Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, 'Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?' The midwives answered Pharaoh, 'Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive.' So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous." The midwives lied and God rewarded them by being kind to them.
Joshua 2:3-6 says, "So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab, 'Bring out the men who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy out the whole land.' But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said, 'Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, the men left. I don't know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them." (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.) Rahab lied about where the men were and yet James 2:25 says, "...was not Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?"
And 2 Kings 10:18-21 says, "Jehu brought all the people together and said to them, 'Ahab served Baal a little; Jehu will serve him much. Now summon all the prophets of Baal, all his ministers and all his priests. See that no one is missing, because I am going to hold a great sacrifice for Baal. Anyone who fails to come will no longer live. But Jehu was acting deceptively in order to destroy the ministers of Baal.... all the ministers of Baal came; not one stayed away. They crowded into the temple of Baal until it was full from one end to the other." And as verses 25 to 30 show Jehu ordered his guards to go in and kill all those who worshipped Baal. After the bloodshed and killing had concluded the Lord said to Jehu in verse 30, "Because you have done well in accomplishing what is right in my eyes and have done to the house of Ahab all I had in mind to do, your descendants will sit on the throne of Israel to the 4th generation." How is that for a God of mercy!
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God and the Devil are both a bit evil
by Bas ini'd like to think of god and satan as the same power...if you like, god can be evil and the devil can be good.
it probably doesn't make much sense to you but i think as reality is as grey as it is (and not black/white), then probably the higher power(s) are/is too.
i honestly believe that thinking in terms of devil/god is not very fertile thing to do.
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cheeseman
maybe satan aint that bad at all
I've always thought Satan got a raw deal. First your God creates you with the ABILITY to become evil, gives you free will just to make sure and when you take the contrary road from the creator he punishes all of creation and tells lies to make you look bad to the humans.
Some God.
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JW's + child sacrifice
by Noumenon ininteresting article here by the provocative david icke (of the 'we are ruled by alien lizards' persuasion).. there is a comment in the article about child sacrifice rituals, etc.
this brings to mind the fact that most jw parents are of course quite prepared to allow their little baby or child to be sacrificed to jehovah out of blind obedience to the organisation's blood policy.
also, the jw policy on insisting that 2 witnesses testify to any child abuse/molestation, thus making the religion a haven for paedophiles, can also be said to be a form of child sacrifice.
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cheeseman
Wow, always thought there was something shifty about that Russel bloke!
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cheeseman
Do you think his send off will be as glamorous as the Pape's?
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Advantages to being a JW
by MGonzales ini'd say that the biggest advantage of being a jw is that you learn the bible.
growing up a jw (never baptized), i had many friends (mostly catholic) who didn't even know where most books of the bible were even located.
jws really do learn and study the bible and this knowledge becomes very helpful once you start looking at the bible more objectively and not with wts binders.
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cheeseman
You acquire a vast array of suit jackets, trousers, shirts and ties.
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Contradictions and NWT
by cheeseman ini have 2 witnesses coming to my door in the near future.
they left me the "why you can trust the bible" tract which claims there are no contradictions in the bible.
so, in preparation i looked out some examples on the internet.
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cheeseman
Oops, here they are:
Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
Which first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
The number of beasts in the ark
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
How many stalls and horsemen?
KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.
The sins of the father
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
The bat is not a bird
DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
DEU 14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
DEU 14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
DEU 14:14 And every raven after his kind,
DEU 14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
DEU 14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
DEU 14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
DEU 14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
Insects do NOT have four feet
LEV 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
LEV 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
LEV 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.
The shape of the earth
ISA 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them
God be seen?
Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)
God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)
CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:
"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."
"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (James 5:11)
"For his mercy endureth forever." (1 Chron. 16:34)
"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (Ps. 145:9)
"God is love." (1 John 4:16)
Tempts?
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (Gen 22:1)
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (James 1:13)
Ascend to heaven
"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11)
"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (John 3:13)
Who bears guilt?
GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
Do you answer a fool?
PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?
SA2 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.
SA2 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:
How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
KI2 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.
CH2 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
When did Baasha die?
26th year of the reign of Asa I Kings 16:6-8
36th year of the reign of Asa I 2 Chron 16:1
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Contradictions and NWT
by cheeseman ini have 2 witnesses coming to my door in the near future.
they left me the "why you can trust the bible" tract which claims there are no contradictions in the bible.
so, in preparation i looked out some examples on the internet.
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cheeseman
I have 2 witnesses coming to my door in the near future. They left me the "Why you can trust the bible" tract which claims there are no contradictions in the bible. So, in preparation I looked out some examples on the Internet. Thing is I have no bible and thus no way to check these scriptures are correct. I don't want to find out their NWT version doesn't show the contradiction I'm looking for. I want them to look like the fools not me!
So, can anybody check these are ok using the NWT. I'd be very grateful if anyone could.
Thanks.
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Calling All Ex Witnesses
by FiveShadows init's me again...most of you don't remember me, but i am in need of personal experiences and comments that you may help me out with.
i met someone online who has apparently turned out to be a good associate of mine.
however, she has informed me that though she has her own beliefs and hates religion itself, she does like to get different perspectives on what people believe.
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cheeseman
This is my first post when I joined the forum. It's a commentary of my entering and exiting the organisation. Hope this does the trick.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/87372/1452609/post.ashx#1452609