What I am bringing out is this...door to door preaching is fine if an individual feels moved to share the Gospel in this manner. However, for an org to present this particular manner as mandated by God, to use it as a barometer of one's spiritual health...to then deride or denigrate members who do not share in this particular method sufficiently...and to use the word of God in a way that one-sidedly slants the info to portay their view...this is what is oppressive and wrong.
isaacaustin
JoinedPosts by isaacaustin
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Thinking of becoming a Witness again and my reasons for doing so :(
by reniaa ini've been a faded jw for 10 years i left because of my failed first marriage, i'm no hypocrite and realised i had left completely so i embraced the world and dived in, only christmas and birthdays i could not get into, they were too foreign to me having never celebrated them, like if i suddenly tried to do ramadan or something like that.. 1/ all the criticisms of the people in the truth you say on here, i've found in the world, warts and all only in the world nothing holds them back from being utterly horrible to you.. 2/ i got stabbed by a worldly boyfriend, i got married 2 times of my own choosing to men outside the truth, the first smoked and was an alcoholic, the second gambled every penny we had and defrauded me out of money after we separated, 2 divorces later i am currently pregnant and a single mum since current boyfriend decided kids was to much of a responsibility and he needed his freedom and i was 'too selfish to expect him to give up his life'.. 3/ parents-in-law!
i have been shunned by them as equal to anything you accuse witness families of and for the silliest of reasons, i had a disabled son and his grandparents said they wanted nothing to do with him because they didn't want to become attached in case he died.. 4/ i miss the honest friendships of the truth, i had friends of all ages from 14 to 80 years old and they genuinely cared for me, many trying to keep me in the faith a long time after i left but i was determined to fade so moved away completely, but i find friendships in the world so shallow in comparison and very hard to sustain :( i've never been a drinker and sometimes thats what friendship means you being a companion for them to goto pub with.. 5/ my recent boyfriend was in a christian religion, i thought why not find out about it, harvest churches if you ever heard of them, unfortunately it still hasn't stop him leaving me pregnant and alone and when i said to him how does he clear that with god, he replies "as long as i repent it doesn't matter" it's like he has a "get out of jail free card" for any wrong-doing in the bible, this is so alien to me and my witness trained conscience.. 6/ i recently out of frustration tried looking into atheism and joined their forums, it wasn't fun, they are as bombastic and arrogant as their religious counterparts can be from any religion, they make a religion out of not believing in god, it's very weird they talk of saving people from believing in god and offer nothing to replace it.
they said to me "be happy you are in reality now and enjoy it" and i thought "well if this is reality i've had enough of it".
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383
Thinking of becoming a Witness again and my reasons for doing so :(
by reniaa ini've been a faded jw for 10 years i left because of my failed first marriage, i'm no hypocrite and realised i had left completely so i embraced the world and dived in, only christmas and birthdays i could not get into, they were too foreign to me having never celebrated them, like if i suddenly tried to do ramadan or something like that.. 1/ all the criticisms of the people in the truth you say on here, i've found in the world, warts and all only in the world nothing holds them back from being utterly horrible to you.. 2/ i got stabbed by a worldly boyfriend, i got married 2 times of my own choosing to men outside the truth, the first smoked and was an alcoholic, the second gambled every penny we had and defrauded me out of money after we separated, 2 divorces later i am currently pregnant and a single mum since current boyfriend decided kids was to much of a responsibility and he needed his freedom and i was 'too selfish to expect him to give up his life'.. 3/ parents-in-law!
i have been shunned by them as equal to anything you accuse witness families of and for the silliest of reasons, i had a disabled son and his grandparents said they wanted nothing to do with him because they didn't want to become attached in case he died.. 4/ i miss the honest friendships of the truth, i had friends of all ages from 14 to 80 years old and they genuinely cared for me, many trying to keep me in the faith a long time after i left but i was determined to fade so moved away completely, but i find friendships in the world so shallow in comparison and very hard to sustain :( i've never been a drinker and sometimes thats what friendship means you being a companion for them to goto pub with.. 5/ my recent boyfriend was in a christian religion, i thought why not find out about it, harvest churches if you ever heard of them, unfortunately it still hasn't stop him leaving me pregnant and alone and when i said to him how does he clear that with god, he replies "as long as i repent it doesn't matter" it's like he has a "get out of jail free card" for any wrong-doing in the bible, this is so alien to me and my witness trained conscience.. 6/ i recently out of frustration tried looking into atheism and joined their forums, it wasn't fun, they are as bombastic and arrogant as their religious counterparts can be from any religion, they make a religion out of not believing in god, it's very weird they talk of saving people from believing in god and offer nothing to replace it.
they said to me "be happy you are in reality now and enjoy it" and i thought "well if this is reality i've had enough of it".
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isaacaustin
Reniaa
Preaching door to door is NOT wrong...nowhere is Scripture is it denouced. At the same time nowhere in Scripture is it mandated. The commission is to preach- the how is not defined or mandated. The WT is actually deceptive in its renderings of Acts 5:42 to Acts 2:46. The exact same Greek phrase kata oiken, which they render house to house in 5:42- which is speaking of how they preached- they render as in private homes in 2:46 which speaks of how they worshipped. Why so? So one would not make the connection between the two verses and realize that Christians obviously did not worship together and break bread at each and every home in a row of homes...thus seeing no justification for carrying this meaning to 5:42.
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Losch hawaii zone visit
by isaacaustin inbefore this talk was given the chairman said the audience could make audio recordings for their personal use but specifically requested that they not make additional copies.
here are notes from someone who was in attendance.. this has already been posted but here are someone elses notes:.
what the near future holdsjanuary 27, 2008 (hawaii zone visit) gerrit loschalthough we cannot know our individual future, we do know mankind's immediate future (2 peter 3:17 "you, therefore, beloved ones, having this advanced knowledge").
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isaacaustin
I compared this point by point to the thread on Losch's Australia visit and many of the points were exactly the same. I noticed no real differences or contradictions between the 2 sets of notes..only the notes i posted below gave more details.
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Losch hawaii zone visit
by isaacaustin inbefore this talk was given the chairman said the audience could make audio recordings for their personal use but specifically requested that they not make additional copies.
here are notes from someone who was in attendance.. this has already been posted but here are someone elses notes:.
what the near future holdsjanuary 27, 2008 (hawaii zone visit) gerrit loschalthough we cannot know our individual future, we do know mankind's immediate future (2 peter 3:17 "you, therefore, beloved ones, having this advanced knowledge").
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isaacaustin
Before this talk was given the chairman said the audience could make audio recordings for their personal use but specifically requested that they not make additional copies. Here are notes from someone who was in attendance.
This has already been posted but here are someone elses notes:
WHAT THE NEAR FUTURE HOLDS January 27, 2008 (Hawaii zone visit) – Gerrit Losch Although we cannot know our individual future, we do know mankind's immediate future (2 Peter 3:17 "You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advanced knowledge…"). God keeps us informed and He cannot lie (Titus 1:2). What will occur in the near future? · There will be an international statement or situation where people will cry out "Peace and Security" (1/15/03 Watchtower). This has not yet occurred. We don't know if it will be a desire for peace or a belief that peace has been achieved. · Matthew 24:14 has been fulfilled (every day 3,000,000 hours are spent in the ministry). · The Great Tribulation has 3 stages: 1) Destruction of Babylon the Great, 2) Period of time in between Babylon's destruction and Armageddon, and 3) Armageddon. · 1) Disgusting thing standing in the holy place (Matthew 24:15, Luke 21:20) o This occurred in 66 CE under Cestius Gallus when Jerusalem's wall was almost undermined. The Roman armies were disgusting because of their idolatrous ensigns. In 70 CE General Titus came to destroy the city. o Unfaithful Jerusalem pictures unfaithful Christendom. Political nations within the UN will devastate Christendom, but it has not yet begun taking its threatening position against false religion (5/1/99 Watchtower, page 16). § Terrorists, such as Al-Qaeda, are targeting political nations, not religious organizations. o Governments will confiscate all religious bank accounts and property. They will probably imprison clergymen and possibly kill them. o Unless those days were cut short (Matthew 24:22), no flesh will be saved. This referred to the days in 66 CE (not 70 CE). Therefore, the modern application is at the beginning of the Great Tribulation – the destruction of Babylon the Great (not Armageddon). Unless those days were shortened, no flesh (true Christians) would be saved. · 2) Between 66-70 CE the Jews were divided into factions within Jerusalem. Food ran out and people were prohibited from leaving the city. This occurred "immediately after the tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:29), referring to the destruction of Babylon the Great. o The sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven. The 2/15/94 Watchtower, page 20, indicates that this will likely be frightening phenomena in the sky more impressive than what was observed in Jerusalem. o Josephus recorded that a comet appeared in Jerusalem in the first century and remained for 1 year (very unusual). o Matthew 24:30 and Luke 21: 25, 26 indicates that men will beat themselves in lamentation and become faint out of fear. This happens during the Great Tribulation. Don't apply Luke 21:26 about men being "faint out of fear" to today. o Luke 21:25 mentions "the anguish of nations, not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation". Brother Losch said this could also have a literal fulfillment (e.g. tsunamis). o Luke 21: 27 describes mankind as seeing "the Son of man coming in a cloud". This sign is in heaven (not on the earth). Therefore it is not the sign of Jesus' presence, which has many facets here on earth today. Rather, everyone will recognize that what they are seeing is supernatural. o Matthew 24:34 "this generation will be no means pass away until all these things occur". The anointed Christians still living will see the fulfillment of all the things foretold regarding the Great Tribulation, including Jesus' execution. However we do not know if they will survive Armageddon and enter the New World. o There will be a final attack on God's people by the King of the North before Armageddon. We still cannot identify the King of the North and should not speculate (Daniel book page 281). We may not know until the attack on true Christians actually begins. This attack will probably parallel Gog's attack described at Ezekiel 38. · 3) At Armageddon, everyone will recognize that it is divine judgment (Revelation 1:7 "every eye will see him" ). o Zechariah 14:12 "There will be a rotting away of one's flesh, while one is standing upon one's feet; and one's very eyes will rot away in their sockets, and one's very tongue will rot away in one's mouth". Jehovah may use radiation to destroy the wicked. ( Yes, Brother Losch actually said "radiation"). o The final separation of the sheep and goats will take place at this time. We must be prepared. At an hour that we do not think it to be, the Son of man is coming (Matthew 24:44). · Matthew 24:17 "Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house". How could he flee without coming down from the roof? He would take the outside stairs or ladder, not bothering to go down through the house. o We must be willing to leave everything behind! The first century Christians had to run – it meant the loss of absolutely everything. But their flesh or lives were saved. o We will lose our homes, businesses, etc. We may be tested by how we view material things. o The Christians in the first century fled to the mountains. Jehovah's mountain-like organization will offer protection (God's Kingdom could also be the mountain that we flee to). Some doubt the nearness of the end because there are still so many to reach: · There are 1.3 billion people in China (although we are preaching there) · 1.0 billion in India where 80% have never been witnessed to · 1.0 billion Muslims (although we are legal in the largest Muslim country, Indonesia, which has a population of 50 million more people than Russia) But Jesus said that we would by no means complete the circuit of cities (Matthew 10:23). He said this after explaining what they should do when people persecute them. We don't know if Jehovah will open up other territories. He could do so in a way we never imagined. Regardless, we know that each life is precious to Him and we should work hard to preach to everyone. The end is near. Revelation 17:11 described the UN as the eighth and final king. It has already lasted 3 times longer than it did before going into the abyss (as the League of Nations). After Armageddon there will be a lot of work to do. Anyone who thinks the Thousand Years will be a long vacation is mistaken. We will have to cleanse the earth (Bible describes people traveling the earth to bury the dead) and prepare for the resurrection. New estimate is a resurrection of 30 billion people. Can you imagine 30 billion people reappearing on one day? No, it's not reasonable. We can assume that there will be a gradual resurrection (Insight book estimates 200-300 years), one generation at a time. This will make it possible to communicate with the previous generation. We will need to provide food and lodging for the newly resurrected ones. There may be special houses where the resurrections occur (those who died at sea won't be swimming to shore). We don't know if the dead will return with clothing or not, but we do know that they will be completely restored physically (no missing limbs, etc.). We can look forward to growing back hair, teeth, etc. Some animals already manifest such abilities (giant squid can grow back new arms and Amazonian fish grow new teeth over and over). Do we really believe the end is near? Our decisions show what we truly believe. Don't seek great things for yourself (Jeremiah 45: 4, 5). This system is passing away. Rather seek first the kingdom. Jehovah has promised to preserve our souls as spoil and has offered us the opportunity to live as long as He does. What a privilege! (There were 7,204 that attended this special talk at a rented convention center in Honolulu and 3,262 that were tied in at 21 other locations on the Hawaiian islands -
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Book by elder urging reinstatement! Son committed suicide....
by crazyblondeb ini was just cruising another xjw website, and they had this posted.
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the son committed suicide after being df'd........it's just so sad they can't get what they are doing to people.. .
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isaacaustin
Would this Anthony Crispin be the same Bro Crispin who was on the judicial committee disfellowshipping Jim Rizoli back in the 90's?
http://www.towerwatch.com/articles/rizoli_committee_meeting.htm
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What is the Telephone Number for New York Bethel?
by ThomasCovenant inthomas covenant.
ps london is 020 8906 2211. .
give them a ring with any questions.
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isaacaustin
7185605000
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My husband is reading about the initial fulfillment of the last days....
by cognac inthat happened in 70 ce... i guess it has 2 fulfillments.... i'm drinking a beer right now, not in the mood for this conversation... mostly i hear, bla bla bla bla bla....... he's trying to figure something out... i asked whether those scriptures had 1 or 2 fulfillments... anyone know???.
sometimes this is exhausting... .
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isaacaustin
it can not have been fulfilled in 70ce...as Matt 24;21 says in repsonse to their question that such a thing a not happened since the world's beginning nor would ever occur again. 70ce simply does not match this. 70ce was dealt with in the prior chapter
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My husband is reading about the initial fulfillment of the last days....
by cognac inthat happened in 70 ce... i guess it has 2 fulfillments.... i'm drinking a beer right now, not in the mood for this conversation... mostly i hear, bla bla bla bla bla....... he's trying to figure something out... i asked whether those scriptures had 1 or 2 fulfillments... anyone know???.
sometimes this is exhausting... .
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isaacaustin
3 While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”
Ok, so when do you think this scripture had it's fulfillment?
(I figured it was either 33 C.E. or 70 C.E. but still have more research to do on the subject...)
This is still future.
ch 23 was fulfilled in 70ce. Ch 24 is all future.
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My husband is reading about the initial fulfillment of the last days....
by cognac inthat happened in 70 ce... i guess it has 2 fulfillments.... i'm drinking a beer right now, not in the mood for this conversation... mostly i hear, bla bla bla bla bla....... he's trying to figure something out... i asked whether those scriptures had 1 or 2 fulfillments... anyone know???.
sometimes this is exhausting... .
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isaacaustin
Jesus had, prior to this already spoken of the destruction coming in 70ce...this conversation was totally a different topic.
So, if this had its fulfillment in 70 C.E. then Jesus started ruling then?
This did not have any fulfillment in 70ce (Matt 24, mark 14 and Luke 21). here, let me say it this way:
From the NWT: Matt 24:
1 Departing now, Jesus was on his way from the temple, but his disciples approached to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 In response he said to them: “Do YOU not behold all these things? Truly I say to YOU , By no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”
This was not fulfilled in 70ce. To this day the base of the temple exists, aka the wailing wall. He is talking here of something other than physical Jerusalem. He is speaking of Christianity in the end of time who falls into a sick Jerusalem-like spiritual condition.
70 ce was already spoken of extensively and to a different audience in ch 23:
33 “Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are YOU to flee from the judgment of Ge·hen´na? 34 For this reason, here I am sending forth to YOU prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them YOU will kill and impale, and some of them YOU will scourge in YOUR synagogues and persecute from city to city; 35 that there may come upon YOU all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·ri´ah son of Bar·a·chi´ah, whom YOU murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I say to YOU , All these things will come upon this generation.
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her,—how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But YOU people did not want it. 38 Look! Y OUR house is abandoned to YOU . 39 For I say to YOU , Y OU will by no means see me from henceforth until YOU say, ‘Blessed is he that comes in Jehovah’s name!’”
He is speaking hear to the religious leaders regarding their upcoming sacking by the Romans.3 While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”
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My husband is reading about the initial fulfillment of the last days....
by cognac inthat happened in 70 ce... i guess it has 2 fulfillments.... i'm drinking a beer right now, not in the mood for this conversation... mostly i hear, bla bla bla bla bla....... he's trying to figure something out... i asked whether those scriptures had 1 or 2 fulfillments... anyone know???.
sometimes this is exhausting... .
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isaacaustin
There is no double fulfillment. These are all talking about a future event- beyond the lifetime of those Jesus was speaking to at that time. Reading Matt 24, Mark 14 and Luke 21 side by side will reveal this...as well as show the Gentile time have been since the day of Adam's sin right up until armageddon. The WT haphazardly applies these verses to 70ce...actually applying Luke 21 to 70ce up until verse 23 but applying verse 24 to 607BCE to arrive at their not so magical formula pointing to 1914. Jesus had, prior to this already spoken of the destruction coming in 70ce...this conversation was totally a different topic.