Posts by isaacaustin

39

Is grace enough?

by Kphoto in

hi again, debating again with my favorite jw and the issue of grace became a firestorm.

my contention is that epesians 2:8-9 says it all but i get the arguement that "that's too easy" and shouldn't i have to do something.

my point is if i earn it it's not grace.

After verse 22, the author of James continues: And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. So, he tries to show the reason why Abraham was 'declared righteous by faith' and why he was even called 'God's Friend'. Not faith itself but the works through which the faith was made perfect enabled him to attain this lofty position in God's face. The author's point appears to be that it's impossible to separate faith and works.

Hamilcarr,

Jam 2:21

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jam 2:22

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Yes, Abraham's works justified, or made complete his works before man. Why do I say this?

Jam 2:23

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Because the scripture (Gen 15:6And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.) was already fulfilled PRIOR to Abraham's works....way before Isaac was even born.

39

Is grace enough?

by Kphoto in

hi again, debating again with my favorite jw and the issue of grace became a firestorm.

my contention is that epesians 2:8-9 says it all but i get the arguement that "that's too easy" and shouldn't i have to do something.

my point is if i earn it it's not grace.

isaacaustin

Isaac,

After verse 22, the author of James continues: And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. So, he tries to show the reason why Abraham was 'declared righteous by faith' and why he was even called 'God's Friend'. Not faith itself but the works through which the faith was made perfect enabled him to attain this lofty position in God's face. The author's point appears to be that it's impossible to separate faith and works.

Hamilcarr,

Jam 2:21

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jam 2:22

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Yes, Abraham's works justified, or made complete his works before man. Why do I say this?

Jam 2:23

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Because the scripture (Gen 15:6And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.) was already fulfilled PRIOR to Abraham's works....way before Isaac was even born.

39

Is grace enough?

by Kphoto in

hi again, debating again with my favorite jw and the issue of grace became a firestorm.

my contention is that epesians 2:8-9 says it all but i get the arguement that "that's too easy" and shouldn't i have to do something.

my point is if i earn it it's not grace.

isaacaustin

Post 1638 of 1638
since 19-Apr-03

isaacaustin

kinda like a school assignment that is so supereasy one thinks they have done it wrong or missed something.

I see it as the teacher having done the assignment for me a giving me the A+

Correct again Deputy. Jesus did all the work for us...he did everything.

39

Is grace enough?

by Kphoto in

hi again, debating again with my favorite jw and the issue of grace became a firestorm.

my contention is that epesians 2:8-9 says it all but i get the arguement that "that's too easy" and shouldn't i have to do something.

my point is if i earn it it's not grace.

isaacaustin

Deputy,

Thanks. And yes I can imagine it took the wind out of Mormons when you told them that. It seems that sometimes many can not grasp that salvation was simply given as a gift...kinda like a school assignment that is so supereasy one thinks they have done it wrong or missed something.

39

Is grace enough?

by Kphoto in

hi again, debating again with my favorite jw and the issue of grace became a firestorm.

my contention is that epesians 2:8-9 says it all but i get the arguement that "that's too easy" and shouldn't i have to do something.

my point is if i earn it it's not grace.

isaacaustin

Deputy,

Jesus did tell us what our one work would be:

Jhn 6:28		Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
	Jhn 6:29		Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So this is the work, to build our faith, to believe. Good works naturally follow true faith, they do not earn salvation.

39

Is grace enough?

by Kphoto in

hi again, debating again with my favorite jw and the issue of grace became a firestorm.

my contention is that epesians 2:8-9 says it all but i get the arguement that "that's too easy" and shouldn't i have to do something.

my point is if i earn it it's not grace.

isaacaustin

well said deputy- Do you think God is ever impressed or at awe by someone putting in 50 hrs in the door to door work, or that they commented 4 times during the WT study while only missing 2 meetings over the past 25 yrs?

Or even away from the WT do you think our kind deeds impress God (as if he couldn't surpass us)?

39

Is grace enough?

by Kphoto in

hi again, debating again with my favorite jw and the issue of grace became a firestorm.

my contention is that epesians 2:8-9 says it all but i get the arguement that "that's too easy" and shouldn't i have to do something.

my point is if i earn it it's not grace.

isaacaustin

Hamilcarr,

You said:

I disagree on this. Two verses before, James says about Abraham: Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? How comes we are not saved by works if these very same works make our faith perfect? Imo, he doesn't claim righteous works are an 'outward evidence' of our faith, but rather the opposite. Besides, the Greek word used for 'declared righteous' is the same in Romans 4:5 and James 2:24, so it's incorrect to assert Paul and James are talking about two different concepts. Salvation, sanctification and justification are inextricably intertwined. Can you show any scriptural evidence for the distinction you're hinting at.

My reply: To whom was Abraham's faith by his works made perfect to? Man. Man can not read man's heart- God can. God does not need to see our works- visible to the eye- to be able to see our intangible faith. IF man's works made his faith perfect toward God the Ephesians 2:9 would be rendered invalid- as man would then have grounds to boast before God.

42

JW LOOPHOLE ON BLOOD IN PRINT!!

by Burger Time in

ok just read this article and didn't see it anywhere else.

anyways in this article the liason committee gives permission for a "forced" transfusion.

the article basically points out the loophole!!

isaacaustin

I know that due to the Bulgaria situation a member accepting a blood transfusion is not disfellowshipped- but rather has voluntarily disassociated him/herself. Their own words are taken at face value (if they admit they did this but claim they are repentant their words are accepted, the same as if they claim they are not repented they have voluntarily given up their status).

Is this the case in the US as well? Globally?

42

JW LOOPHOLE ON BLOOD IN PRINT!!

by Burger Time in

ok just read this article and didn't see it anywhere else.

anyways in this article the liason committee gives permission for a "forced" transfusion.

the article basically points out the loophole!!

isaacaustin

BT,

I didn't mean to step on any toes. Most people will not read thru such a long article to see what the loophole is. It is not until page 7 or 8 that the point is made. I thought by posting more of the article, so people can see the loophole in the context, you will get more hits on this thread. It actually is a huge find. Thank you so much for posting it! Lilly

lovelylil- that descriptions kinda sounds like a WT article doesn't it? LOL Put the "new light" in a QFR in the back instead of in the main study article where it will surely be seen.

42

JW LOOPHOLE ON BLOOD IN PRINT!!

by Burger Time in

ok just read this article and didn't see it anywhere else.

anyways in this article the liason committee gives permission for a "forced" transfusion.

the article basically points out the loophole!!

isaacaustin

This is big. #1 this will take away the stigma of the JW doctine causing deaths and make the public image better (for those who have not experienced the repercussions of refusal). Probably exactly what the WT wanted as far as a springboard to removing the ban- make the changes seem minimal.