Posts by isaacaustin

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

Isaac and mary I already gave you both a list of what I considered biggies.

Jesus did not seem to agree with your list Reniaa. He said "love among yourselves" was the determining factor. This is definitely not present amon the WT folowers- among the members or from the members to the outsiders. So by Jesus words they have disqualified themselves.

Christianity was the major religion of all sides of the first world war and the second one too what if they had stepped in and told their people not to kill each other? would their followers have ignored the command? probably and what does that say about christianity?

Again, it is to the individual Christian to weigh his or her involvement. John the Baptist- Jesus forerunner, made pretty clear that a solier in war is certainly not something that would disqualify one from being right with God. He told the soldier to be content with their wages- meaning they were ok to continue in that profession. Just so you know, the WT actually encouraged its member to finance WW! by buying war-bonds. So you can say the JWs didn't fight in WWI, they made it possible by financing it.

Jws have stepped in and said no the bible says love your enemy and this isn't just about being nice and and inviting people to dinner, it's about not killing others, hitler was terrible and evil but he was also a christian at no point did his religious leaders tell him not to kill people this is their blood guilt.

I guess you haven't read the 1945 yearbook as to the WT official stance. The JW member stance is simply acts of loyalty to the WT.

At this same time german Jws were taking stands in prisons in german concentration camps refusing to be killers for his greed, have you joined a church that let it's people kill in those wars probably on both sides?

Again- individual conscience. It takes a WT interpretation and explanation to support your above statements.

For me the JWs still stand out far and away beyond other faiths that are losing there identity in public opinion

Far and away beyond other faiths in what? Eccentric beleifs? Pesty Sat morning knocking on doors?

they may not have strict leaders like Jws constantly applying bible principle to everything but they do have leaders even if they are only there say yes to many things the bible condemns and they used to be strong on but public opinion has made them bend to man's will. Forgive me if however nice those religions they do not appeal to me. We can make our own faith from looking at the bible but then we are only making a leader of ourselves with a congregation of one.

Name me one religion without leadership? and this is for you too wobble

The question is not of leadership but WHAT TYPE OF LEADERSHIP. The WT clearly in their leadership goes beyond the things written and have become masters over their members' faith.

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

Reniaa

As per the WT, the mention of paradise in Rev 2:7 is heavenly:

13

Finally, as he does also in his other messages, Jesus calls attention to God’s spirit as making known through Jesus the rewards for faithfulness. To the Ephesians he says: "Lettheonewhohasanearhearwhatthespiritsaystothecongregations:TohimthatconquersIwillgranttoeatofthetreeoflife,whichisintheparadiseofGod."(Revelation2:7) Those with hearing ears would be eager to heed that vital message, knowing that it did not come on Jesus’ initiative but that it flowed from the Sovereign Lord Jehovah himself through His holy spirit, or active force. How would they ‘conquer’? By following closely in the steps of Jesus, who kept integrity to the death and so could say: "Take courage! I have conquered the world."—John 8:28; 16:33; see also 1 John 5:4.

14

Since they have no prospect of living in an earthly paradise, how is it that anointed Christians, such as those Ephesians, are rewarded with eating "of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God"? This could not be the restored Paradise on earth, since the 144,000 anointed Christians, including those of the congregation at Ephesus, are bought from among mankind to rule with the Lamb, Christ Jesus, on the heavenly Mount Zion as spirit sons. (Ephesians 1:5-12; Revelation 14:1, 4) Hence, the reference here must be to the heavenly gardenlike realm inherited by these conquerors. There, "in the paradise of God," yes, in the very presence of Jehovah himself, these overcomers who have been granted immortality will continue to live eternally, as symbolized here by their eating of the tree of life.

Show a verse that the paradise is earthly.

38

TO CLARIFY A COUPLE OF THINGS ABOUT MY PROJECT.....

by Mary in

jw
friends

first of all, i want to thank everyone for all the words of encouragment and compliments i've received regarding the project i put together.

not only will it (hopefully) help some family members to see that something's not right regarding many of the wt's doctrines, but it was therapeutic for me to do as well.

like many other ex-witnesses, i was emotionally devastated and extremely angry when i discovered that this religion was not "the truth" as was drilled into our brains from day one.

isaacaustin

Question Mary,

How many hours did you put in? Perhaps you can see if they will accept your pioneer application retroactive?

LOL

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

yes, the one called doubts.. the cabinet broke in 95 when I had in the back of my mind thought that perhaps the WT was right. I worried about the aging 1914 generation. However in reading that 1995 Wt and seeing it redefined it showed me the WT was nothing special. It took years later though to see that this was actually one of many in a string of false prophecies. Then I was able later on down the road to unravel doctrine.

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

passwordprotected

I read that years ago and did not understand the contradiction either. I didn't see it so i filed it toward the back of my mind.

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

p

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

I was trying to reply to Reniaa and got an error message. Then I got back to the thread and Mary replied to Reniaa (without any conferring with me) almost word for word what I was trying to post. LOL Great minds think alike.

One point to add regarding war Reniaa. WHile I personally do not like war a Christians involvement or lack thereof is for that person to weigh carefully and prayerfully. Notice what John the Baptist said to some soldiers hwo wanted to be right with God:

Luuke 2

1 4 Some soldiers were questioning him, saying, "And what about us, what shall we do?" And he said to them, "Do not take money from anyone by force, or (R) accuse anyone falsely, and (S) be content with your wages."

Hmm, nothing of changing their profess.

I also have to ask you the scriptural basis for your check points on determing the WT as the true religion.

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

Revelation 2:7
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Where is this paradise of God Reniaa?

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

hmmm it kinda depends how you define prophet, they have never actually given a date for armegeddon, lol if 1975 is ever mentioned in a watchtower as a date i'm sure it wold have been shown me before now :)

Umm, yes they did. The end 'had to come before the generation that saw the events of 1914 compltely passed away"

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

isaacaustin

Reniaa was very visible here until er asked her a question inconvenient for her to answer. caliber requested even a one word answer of one date the WT got right. And I am sure she does not want to answer Mary now that Mary is here to speak for herself.