Posts by AndersonsInfo

44

Victoria, Australia: All five cases made it through the court. Nothing thrown out!

by AndersonsInfo in

on the suggestion of the office of public prosecutions, mr steven unthank made application to the magistrate that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 october 2011.. .

following a request by mr steven unthank, the magistrate ordered that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 october 2011.. .

AndersonsInfo

The Magistrates' Court Criminal Trial Listings have been published on the official web site:

https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/browse-court-lists/court-itinery-list.aspx?id=97&type=Criminal&date=11/10/2011

44

Victoria, Australia: All five cases made it through the court. Nothing thrown out!

by AndersonsInfo in

on the suggestion of the office of public prosecutions, mr steven unthank made application to the magistrate that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 october 2011.. .

following a request by mr steven unthank, the magistrate ordered that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 october 2011.. .

AndersonsInfo

Aussie Oz: I think the name is Vincent Toole. He is part of the Watchtower B&TS of Australia's legal team.

Barb

44

Victoria, Australia: All five cases made it through the court. Nothing thrown out!

by AndersonsInfo in

on the suggestion of the office of public prosecutions, mr steven unthank made application to the magistrate that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 october 2011.. .

following a request by mr steven unthank, the magistrate ordered that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 october 2011.. .

AndersonsInfo

The XJW in Australia with whom I am dealing with was in the Magistrates' Court for the hearing. He will prepare a brief summary of what happened, how the players behaved, opinions, character observations, and any legal notes that might be interesting. It won't be immediate, but should be by the weekend. Please be assured that I'll post whatever information is sent me. I'm just as anxious as you are to have details of the events of yesterday.

So, where are these cases in the stream of time?

The result of today's court hearings are as follows:

All 5 cases are still in the court system.

Nothing thrown out.

Two hurdles down. One - getting the charges filed. Two - getting past the first court hearing with all cases intact.

CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

No appearance and no legal representation.

On the suggestion of the Office of Public Prosecutions, Mr Steven Unthank made application to the Magistrate that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 October 2011.

Next Court hearing date: 11 October 2011

GOVERNING BODY OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

No appearance and no legal representation.

On the suggestion of the Office of Public Prosecutions, Mr Steven Unthank made application to the Magistrate that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 October 2011.
Court hearing date: 11 October 2011

FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE

No appearance and no legal representation.

On the suggestion of the Office of Public Prosecutions, Mr Steven Unthank made application to the Magistrate that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 October 2011.

Court hearing date: 11 October 2011

WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF AUSTRALIA

Legal Counsel present in court.

Following a request by Mr Steven Unthank, the Magistrate ordered that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 October 2011.

Court hearing date: 11 October 2011

WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF PENNSYLVANIA, INC.

No Legal Representation.

On the suggestion of the Office of Public Prosecutions, Mr Steven Unthank made application to the Magistrate that the case be transferred to the summary stream and listed as a summary mention on 11 October 2011.

Court hearing date: 11 October 2011

NOTES: A Summary Mention is an administrative hearing of the case to allow the magistrate to follow the progress of the proceeding. The accused is also given the opportunity to plead guilty at this hearing.

67

Victoria, Australia: FYI-Far reaching ramifications of the criminal indictment of the GB

by AndersonsInfo in

fyi: the following material that im providing comes from a source in australia, an xjw who is now monitoring the case and will provide feedback, comments, and opinions.

barbara.

the governing body of jehovah's witnesses was recently summoned to appear in the magistrates' court of victoria on september 13, 2011 in relation to a number of indictable criminal offences allegedly committed.

AndersonsInfo

Thank you Steve2 for your explanation. Your input and thoughts on the subject under consideration are as welcome on the board as the next persons, but from the very beginning when Steven Unthank was introduced to this board, you have not come across particularly complimentary of him nor I, for that matter, for sharing his activities on JWN even though the way he was going about it was unusual. For those who want to double check my statement, go back to the first thread I started about these events in Victoria, Australia. Maybe it is your style of writing that is the problem, and from now on I will try to take that into consideration.

You said this in one of your last posts: "Barbara had said these were not facts, citing the principle of the international sovereign right of states ..."

"My friend said the principle had been misapplied by Barbara;"

You also stated that all of the GB were Americans. The writer of the post disagreed with you and said so. I didn't say so, the author of the article that I started this thread off with disagreed with you.

If I am wrong in what I say, I will own up to it, but as I said in my last post the statements you took issue with were not mine. The person who made those statements is probably reading this board, so we'll see if I will be posting his opinion about the international sovereign right of states, etc.

I personally don't know why Steven Unthank hasn't responded to your emails, Steve2. I'm glad you did try though.

As to Victoria's Police Commissioner, I know what I read in the paper. I wasn't saying in my original post on the subject that the statement in the paper was in anyway related to Steven Unthank and his determination to have WT obey the WWC Act. I was merely making an observation that I was optimistic that the new government was going to do something about WT's refusal to obey the law in that apparently child abuse had not been correctly handled by the authorities in the past and this had something to do with the Commissioner's forced resignation. I do try not to make statements that I don't have a source for. Perhaps the newspaper reporter was in error. I'll try to find the article.

Barbara

67

Victoria, Australia: FYI-Far reaching ramifications of the criminal indictment of the GB

by AndersonsInfo in

fyi: the following material that im providing comes from a source in australia, an xjw who is now monitoring the case and will provide feedback, comments, and opinions.

barbara.

the governing body of jehovah's witnesses was recently summoned to appear in the magistrates' court of victoria on september 13, 2011 in relation to a number of indictable criminal offences allegedly committed.

AndersonsInfo

Steve2, if you had carefully read what I posted, I only took the blame for not putting some speech marks around some words, but the rest of the material didn't come from me, but from the person who is sending me the information. Early on in this thread I explained that the material I posted came not from me but from an XJW in Australia that has agreed to monitor the events, report on them along with his opinions. From the very beginning when I started to post information about Steve Unthank, you have consistently attacked me. I never claimed to be an expert on what Steven Unthank is doing in Australia. I agreed to post information about all of this because I have the trust of those involved. Nothing more. Don't argue with me Steve2, argue with Steven Unthank. His phone number has been posted previously on JWN and also his home and email address are on his website. As far as I'm concerned, nothing should stop you from contacting him asap because you might be able to lend him assistance in his endeavor. Remember, he's just a carpenter! And I'm just a "passer alonger" of information as I get it. Maybe you should volunteer to do this and that way there will be no mistakes.

As an afterthought, maybe you would like to PM me Steve2 or I can PM you if you would like to discuss this further.

Co Co, I read your words and took "UNKNOWN" as a joke. I thought it was just a play on words and I like humorous people.

Barbara

67

Victoria, Australia: FYI-Far reaching ramifications of the criminal indictment of the GB

by AndersonsInfo in

fyi: the following material that im providing comes from a source in australia, an xjw who is now monitoring the case and will provide feedback, comments, and opinions.

barbara.

the governing body of jehovah's witnesses was recently summoned to appear in the magistrates' court of victoria on september 13, 2011 in relation to a number of indictable criminal offences allegedly committed.

AndersonsInfo

Yes, Matt, that's the town where this case is being considered. This is just a Filing Hearing and it could still be going on if it started only three hours ago. I was told that the day was set aside because there were five WT entities charged. This hearing will determine what court will hear the case and when. I have no idea when that information will be announced. Also, after this Hearing we should know if the Prosecutor's Office will take over the case from Steven who is acting as prosecutor, as odd as that might sound if compared to US law.

Regarding the resignation of the head of the police: I actually read an article in an Australian newspaper which had a large photo of the police chief after he resigned and in the photo I believe there were reporters trying to interview him or I could be mixing that up with a video I saw of him trying to explain the situation. Well anyhow, the newspaper article specifically mentioned some men in the police department had been involved in some sort of criminal matters and also mentioned something about the police chief not responding to child abuse. Somewhere I have a link to that article, but I don't intend to try to find it tonight because of the time it will take. I believe this happened sometime after Steven Unthank filed his "Submission" back around the time of the JWs Memorial and after the Submission had been cleared by some Legal Office in Victoria.

Barbara

67

Victoria, Australia: FYI-Far reaching ramifications of the criminal indictment of the GB

by AndersonsInfo in

fyi: the following material that im providing comes from a source in australia, an xjw who is now monitoring the case and will provide feedback, comments, and opinions.

barbara.

the governing body of jehovah's witnesses was recently summoned to appear in the magistrates' court of victoria on september 13, 2011 in relation to a number of indictable criminal offences allegedly committed.

AndersonsInfo

Sir 82: Your question was answered towards the bottom of page 1 of this thread:

Australian courts, like all other courts in all other sovereign states and lands, have the authority to charge and prosecute any person or "entity" or "body" or corporation, regardless of where they are in the world, in relation to offences committed within their own jurisdiction or territory or against their own citizens, including children. This is the International Sovereign Right of all States.

Band on the Run: Thank you so much for your valuable input. We always learn when reading your thoughtful posts. I can see how a criminal indictment of corporations can cross national boundaries, but it is difficult to understand what can be done with the GB's "spiritual" complicity in this matter of disobeying the Working With Children Act. For that we have to wait and see.

Please be assured that I'm a practical and very patient person in these issues. Nor do I allow myself to get my hopes up. I just keep putting one foot in front of the other trying to combat the injustices caused by my former friends at Bethel. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. It's all in a day's work.

Barbara

67

Victoria, Australia: FYI-Far reaching ramifications of the criminal indictment of the GB

by AndersonsInfo in

fyi: the following material that im providing comes from a source in australia, an xjw who is now monitoring the case and will provide feedback, comments, and opinions.

barbara.

the governing body of jehovah's witnesses was recently summoned to appear in the magistrates' court of victoria on september 13, 2011 in relation to a number of indictable criminal offences allegedly committed.

AndersonsInfo

I'm in Tennessee in the USA and it is in the middle of Monday afternoon on Sept. 12th as I type this post. I believe it is early morning on Tuesday the 13th in Victoria, Australia. The day has finally arrived for Steven Unthank to get his long-awaited "show on the road."

Yes, if all goes right on Tuesday the 13 th at the Magistrate’s Court, it could be the beginning of the long road to justice for 2,500 children of JWs in Victoria. I'm optimistic, yet not dumb to the wiles of Watch Tower leaders and JW attorneys so will expect anything they may do or say to influence the Victoria, Australia, government. We all know WT has had considerable experience manipulating modern-day governments to look the other way as JW adults, who don’t know that they are being deceived, die in the name of God for not taking blood. In addition, the majority of governments also ignore the cries of families for their human rights who are splintered because of JW religious shunning practices in the name of freedom of religion.

I’m optimistic because already the head of Victoria’s police was forced to resign by the Premier because he did not enforce the child protection laws and did not do his duty in behalf of other injustices. I’m optimistic because Steven Unthank has managed to get this far, to have the major players in the Watch Tower organization criminally indicted, something no one could imagine might happen. It's a new government administration in Victoria as of the end of 2010. The party ran on a law and order campaign slogan. Now we'll see if they will enforce the Working With Children law.

However, the question still hangs in the air –Will JWs demand that the same treatment be carried out towards their Governing Body as the Governing Body demands of elders if a JW, who serves in a special position, is criminally indicted by the authorities that he is to be immediately removed from his position? I think we all know the answer, but all the same it is an incredible scenario to think about.

Barbara

67

Victoria, Australia: FYI-Far reaching ramifications of the criminal indictment of the GB

by AndersonsInfo in

fyi: the following material that im providing comes from a source in australia, an xjw who is now monitoring the case and will provide feedback, comments, and opinions.

barbara.

the governing body of jehovah's witnesses was recently summoned to appear in the magistrates' court of victoria on september 13, 2011 in relation to a number of indictable criminal offences allegedly committed.

AndersonsInfo

The following reply to EntirelyPossible is not mine but is from the XJW in Australia who is sending me his opinions based on research of this case. Barbara If the Governing Body answers the charges in this case, then this would confirm that a "valid charge" has actually been brought against each of them.

EntirelyPossible, you said "that does not follow. simply answering charges does NOT mean you agree they are valid, that simply means you have legal responsibility to answer the charges, nothing else."

What is a "valid charge"?

The term "valid charge" is a theocratic term used in the "Organized" book on page 32. It also has, what is legally termed "its ordinary, everyday meaning."

Are the charges against the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses a "valid charge"?

Webster's New World Dictionary (compact edition) defines the word valid as "having legal force"; and defines the word force as "strength; power."

This is on par with the legal definition of a "valid charge" - a charge which has power "under the law."

Each of the 7 criminal charges filed in court against the Governing Body are a "valid charge."

The Magistrates' Court of Victoria recognizes these charges as being "based-on-law," the Working with Children Act 2005, although we are yet to find out what section of the legislation was cited in the charge-sheets. This will be made public on September 13th when the charges and references are formally read out and cited in court, along with a Summary of Charges.

If the charges and alleged offences were "misconceived," which under Victorian law means "is based on an offence that does not exist under the law," then the Victorian Director of Public Prosecutions would have taken over the case and withdrawn the charges immediately, if not on the very same day, then on the following day. This did not, and has not happened even though the charges were filed in court almost 7 weeks ago on July 26, 2011.

Further, when a member of the public files charges, which is very rare, the Director of Public Prosecutions has the power, under law, to take over the prosecution. The Director can then decide to prosecute the case or discontinue it.

The Director of Public Prosecutions can discontinue a prosecution for a range of reasons, including if he believes that the case
- is frivolous (does not have a serious purpose)
- is vexatious (was started to cause trouble)
- is misconceived (is based on an offence that does not exist under law)
- does not have enough evidence to support it
- has been restarted after an earlier decision by the Director to discontinue it
- is not in the public interest for the prosecution to proceed. "Vexatious" might be viewed by some as a potential problem in Mr. Unthank's case. However, due to the overwhelming evidence (his published 'wordy' press releases) and a newspaper article in the Sunday Herald Sun, Mr. Unthank is actually publicly asking for the Director of Public Prosecutions to take over the case.

While many of us have criticized the unorthodox way Mr. Unthank has gone about bringing the case to court, a few facts defy rejection of his methods. The most striking fact being that he has actually got the charges and the case to court and has actually had the Governing Body et al, charged.

On first analysis, this seems impossible, but these facts are there and are in public domain.

On second analysis, and I am basing this on an assumption as there is no Plaintiff / Applicant or Prosecuting Agency listed on the court listings, Mr. Unthank may have actually used the religious angle to get the charges filed and the case heard.

This seems most likely as the Victorian Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act 2006 , under Part 2 - Human Rights, could be envoked to secure the likelihood of the charges being successfully filed in court, if the charges were presented to the courts by someone acting in harmony with their "thought, conscience, religion and belief," say, by presenting themself as a "minister of religion" and then acting on behalf of the "Freedom of thought, conscience, religion and belief" of the children within Jehovah's Witnesses.

Section 38 of the Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act 2006 says the following in relation to the "Obligation on Public Authorities":
Conduct of public authorities
(1) Subject to this section, it is unlawful for a public authority to act in a way that is incompatible with a human right or, in making a decision, to fail to give proper consideration to a relevant human right." The Charter of Human Rights became law in Victoria for Public Authorities on January 1, 2008.

For further information about the Charter, go to http://www.justice.vic.gov.au/humanrights

If taken at face value, it appears that Mr. Unthank has been fighting to have his charges filed for over 3 years now. It is possible that during this time he tried every way conceivable or imaginable to bring the charges against the Governing Body and others but without success. Then, maybe, just maybe, he took the religious rhetoric and "mission from God" angle as a last resort marched down the "freedom of religion" highway right into the court house chanting,
"I'm a minister of religion. And on behalf of the Kingdom of God I demand that the religious leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses be criminally charged." This is the impression that his press releases and a number of articles he has published on his web sites indicate. And this conclusion, is practically, the most probable conclusion one could reach if they availed themself of the time to read his extensive 664-page religious manifesto which he originally entitled "The Submission." And, if Mr. Steven Unthank did indeed march down that "freedom of religion" highway right into the court house chanting the above, then maybe, just maybe, it was that tactic that made the difference and had the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses charged.

When the time comes, it literally will make one "hell of a story" and an interesting book to read.

67

Victoria, Australia: FYI-Far reaching ramifications of the criminal indictment of the GB

by AndersonsInfo in

fyi: the following material that im providing comes from a source in australia, an xjw who is now monitoring the case and will provide feedback, comments, and opinions.

barbara.

the governing body of jehovah's witnesses was recently summoned to appear in the magistrates' court of victoria on september 13, 2011 in relation to a number of indictable criminal offences allegedly committed.

AndersonsInfo

Steve2 criticized the following in the article:

The Governing Body can not cut a deal and pay a fine. This can not happen under Australian law where you can not pay a fine unless you plead "guilty" and then you get a criminal conviction and also run the risk of jail time.

and posted in reply:

This appears to be opinion with a dash of legalese not helped by crude wording (i.e., risk of jail time). It is great to be kept up to date, but I do wonder about the author of this material. So far, not a word from the Governing Body or its representatives. Now that would be newsworthy...

I missed the quotation marks when reformatting the email. And the sentence is opinion which is why the quotation marks should have been there. I'll get the author of the article to recheck the post as a couple of questions I had about a sentence or two were replied by email with a smattering of opinion and legalese which I included.

See example below with quotation marks:

The Governing Body can not cut a deal and pay a fine. "This can not happen under Australian law where you can not pay a fine unless you plead 'guilty' and then you get a criminal conviction and also run the risk of jail time."

Also Steve2 stated as Fact:

The Governing Body is an American "entity" or "body" composed of American citizens.

Australian courts do not have jurisdiction over non-Australian bodies or entities.

Fact: The Governing Body is a worldwide "entity" or "body" composed of members from a number of countries, including Australia (i.e. Geoffrey Jackson).

Fact: Australian courts, like all other courts in all other sovereign states and lands, have the authority to charge and prosecute any person or "entity" or "body" or corporation, regardless of where they are in the world, in relation to offences committed within their own jurisdiction or territory or against their own citizens, including children. This is the International Sovereign Right of all States.