I agree with yesidid. From my experience the service from Ray has been better than Amazon. I am not in the US and his postage charge to my country is much less than Amazon.
imfreeimfree
JoinedPosts by imfreeimfree
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42
At last finished reading Crisis of Conscience
by diamondblue1974 in.
and what an eye opener it was...dont get me wrong i faded some 10 years ago and the reasons for such were contained in the book, i.e 1914, failed prophecies and so forth.. the expose is disarming by its objective style and whilst i now read any literature through sceptical eyes i could see a person genuinely grieved by what had taken place and the crisis he was subjected to conscientiously; it said it all to me when he said that his aim was not to divert people from the jws but give them support so they could develop as christians and therefore allow them to come to their own conclusions (or words to that effect).. extremely well written and consise with reams of references (which i happen to love).. anyone that is recently out must read this book...it objective, honest and was totally surprising in parts.. db74
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18
WHO IS IN CHARGE OF THE WRITING DEPT?????
by yesidid in.
does anyone know who is in charge of the writing dept in brooklyn.. .
yesidid.
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imfreeimfree
There have been instances where this info has been reported on the board. Just don't remember where it was.
It is true they don't say who writes particular atricles, but some must know which GB member is in charge of that dept. I mean everyone knows TJ is in charge of the service dept.
David
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54
I'm telling lies from the stage
by DannyBloem ini recently gave a public talk, and i really felt bad about it.. it was the public talk about the great flood of noahs days.
the is so much evidence that this great deluge never happened, but that is something you can't tell the audience from the stage.
(i will tell about that evidence if people are interested, but it is a bit off-topic now).
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imfreeimfree
Danny, my heart goes out to you. I was a captive of that religious system for nearly 60 years. Unfortunately, that was not my first experience with totalitarian systems. I successfully escaped from several tyrannous governments, including the communists. We managed to free ourselves from these regimes and keep our family together. Actually it brought the family closer. We were working together for our shared survival. However, escaping from the WBTS has been harder, because again I want to keep our family together, but this time I don't have my family's support, in fact I could eventually lose them because of it. Keep in mind, if you are DF or DA yourself, you will be shunned, and then unable to support those who are close to you.
Unfortunately Danny, there is no easy way to exit this organization without some pain, particularly if you wish to not disrupt the family circle. Some posters gave good advice. Do not act in haste!!! Take your time. Pray for God’s guidance. Take one step at the time. You may wish to read Ray Franz’s books: Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom. These two books helped my wife and me free ourselves of this convoluted system. Here is his address: http://www.commentarypress.com/
Though I held responsible positions in the organization, my wife and I proceeded with a slow fade; using health issues as the basis for our slow disappearance. Exit on YOUR terms, not theirs. IMHO little is accomplished in making a hero of yourself, for in doing so you disrupt your family’s peace. It also gives the deceived individuals in the congregation an opportunity to shun you, an embarrassment for you and them.
Both, the love of my life, and I exited the WBTS system simultaneously. For that I am very grateful. I would make every effort to be extra loving and understanding with your wife. It will be a terrible shock for her. She will need extra emotional support from you. If you think it is hard for you, it will be a lot harder for her.
It is a difficult road ahead. You will have to make monumental adjustments, like the majority of us who came to realize that we had been deceived, yes betrayed. It can be hard to keep our faith in our God and our Lord Jesus. The pain, the test, the angst you are facing now, are worth the rewards you will enjoy in the future.
We wish you all the best on your journey. Feel free to contact us. We are here to support you.
David
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60
How many people here are Faders?
by misspeaches inhow many people that come to this board are faders only?
i am interested to know the statistics on how many people have left the borg because they have discovered their untruths or become disillusioned.. thanks,.
miss peache
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imfreeimfree
My wife and I are almost three years into a, so-far, successful fade.
David
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57
Governing Body claims title to Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls
by garybuss ingoverning body claims title to kingdom halls and assembly halls.
i'm told this is what the new "organized" book says about real estate on page 16: "what then are the "belongings"?
these are all the spiritual assets on earth that have become christ's property in connection with his authority as heavenly king.
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imfreeimfree
Hi Gary,
No nothing like that in the old book. I have scanned the relevent bits and post them below. It starts on page 25
" HOW THE CONGREGATION IS ORGANIZED AND GOVERNED
25 .CONGREGATION TODAY FOLLOWS APOSTOLIC PATTERN
Today a similar pattern of organization is followed in all the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses. These collectively form a united worldwide congregation built around the nucleus of spirit-anointed ones. (Zech. 8:23) This is possible because Jesus Christ, true to his promise, has loyally remained with his anointed disciples "all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." (Matt. 28:20) They dedicate their life unreservedly to Jehovah God and faithfully do his will. Those brought into the growing congregation today embrace the good news of God and are baptized as disciples of Jesus Christ. (Mark 1:14; Acts 2:41) They recognize the headship of Jesus Christ not only over the anointed members of the congregation but also over the entire flock which includes the "other sheep."-John 10:16; Eph. 1: 22, 23.
Unity is maintained by loyally recognizing the headship of Christ and also by submitting to an organizational channel, "the faithful and discreet slave." What has the Master appointed this "slave" to do? Jesus answered that the "slave" was to provide spiritual food at the proper time
26 ORGANIZED TO ACCOMPLISH OUR MINISTRY
and to care for all His "belongings," or Kingdom interests on earth. (Matt. 24:45-47; Luke 12:42-44) Rather than being an individual Christian, the 'faithful slave' today is the remnant, still living on earth, of the composite body of Christ's anointed footstep followers. Such remaining ones are a part of spiritual Israel, the anointed congregation of God. (Gal. 6:16; compare Isaiah 43:10.) This remnant is faithfully discharging the responsibilities of the "slave" during this time of the end by taking the lead in the preaching of "this good news of the kingdom" throughout all the earth and by providing spiritual food at the proper time for the household of faith.-Matt.24:14.
.'
USE OF RELIGIOUS CORPORATIONSDuring these last days of the present wicked system of things, the "belongings" of the Master have increased abundantly throughout all the earth. This has placed a heavy responsibility on The 'faithful slave.' In discharging its responsibility to provide spiritual food at the proper time and in
order to get the good news of the Kingdom preached before the end comes, the remnant on earth, as "the faithful and discreet slave" class, has formed certain agencies, or legal entities. It has proved to be the course of wisdom for the 'faithful slave' to organize certain corporations that are recognized by the laws of various Countries. These religious corporations own and operate printing facilities that produce and distribute Bibles and Bible literature on a worldwide basisfor use in the Kingdom ministry.The first in time and the principal corporation used in this way is the Watch Tower Bible and tract Society of Pennsylvania. This nonprofit religious society was incorporated in 1884, is made
HOW THE CONGREGATION IS ORGANIZED AND GOVERNED 27
up of dedicated, baptized Christians and is exclusively devoted to advancing the interests of true worship in the earth. The Watch Tower Society has extended its works worldwide, establishing branch offices in various countries. Also, in comliance with local governmental regulations, a number of other religious societies have been legally formed, such as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. (1909) and the In ternational Bible Students Association in London, England (1914). All these legal instrumentalities cooperate with one another. These and other legal corporations are used by the modernday Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses to facilitate the preaching of the good news worldwide and to care for the spiritual needs of the entire congregation of God in all parts of the earth."
Hope this helps
David
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57
Governing Body claims title to Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls
by garybuss ingoverning body claims title to kingdom halls and assembly halls.
i'm told this is what the new "organized" book says about real estate on page 16: "what then are the "belongings"?
these are all the spiritual assets on earth that have become christ's property in connection with his authority as heavenly king.
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imfreeimfree
" What then are the "belongings"? These are all the spiritual assets on earth that have become Christ's property in connection with his authority as heavenly King. Included are facilities at the headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses, along with branch offices, Kingdom Halls, and Assembly Halls worldwide."
According to my book, it's correct, word for word.
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The book Crisis of Conscience
by Jim Dee ini've just finished reading this book
i was brought up in the society, seen the elder arrangement brought in, seen changes and in fighting - and finally sttof down as a snr circuit elder in england because of the abuse issue and the society covering up.
i have also the seen the society flee and cya because of the data protection act in the uk.
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imfreeimfree
Hi Jim,
Although I was a witness for almost sixty years, and served in Bethel I never heard of a
What is that position?"Snr Circuit Elder"
David
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Who Was Shocked By the Watchtower UN NGO Scandal?
by AlanF in.
i'd like to get comments from people about whether and how much they were shocked, surprised, or otherwise bothered by the watchtower society's becoming an associated non-governmental organization (ngo).. note that i'd like to see these comments because they might lead to some interesting publicity, so please comment accordingly.. alanf
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imfreeimfree
I was surprised, bewildered, shocked, stunned and outraged!!!!!!!!! The hypocrites; their hierarchy proclaimed: "? we are no part of the world, and we are not infected by such spiritually deadly plagues as its immorality, materialism, false religion, and worship of "the wild beast" and its "image," the United Nations." Watchtower Nov 15 2001 p 19. They labelled the UNO, the "disgusting thing that causes desolation". WT Jan. 15, 77. p 44, Sept. 15, 82, p 17, 18. Nevertheless they attached themselves to the UN in association with the DPI as an NGO. They accepted and endorsed the general objectives and principles of the UN. They committed themselves to publish UN propaganda in their magazines. They were an NGO from 1992-2001. This was very hypocritical; scandalous. They were hiding from the RF their affiliation with the UN for 10 years. One may ask: what else are they hiding?
In their recent publication "Organized to?" on page 155, the following statement appears: "For example, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of a secular organization that has objectives contrary to the Bible and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God."
The Watchtower governing body labels the UNO, the "disgusting thing that causes desolation", "the wild beast" etc. yet they voluntarily attached themselves to the system they so vigorously condemn; but should their followers link with an organization such as YMCA, they can expect the most severe punishment, even be disfellowshiped, be cut off from their families and life long friends. They would be shunned for the rest of their life.
Observe their hypocrisy and double standards. Because the YMCA was interlocked with religion, anyone joining the YMCA would be considered an apostate.In the 01/01/79 p 31 Watchtower magazine this question was asked: "Is it true that for religious reasons Jehovah's Witnesses may not become members of the YMCA (Young Men's Christian Association)?" "In joining the YMCA as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization? Nor is his membership merely an entry pass, as when a person buys a theater ticket. Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious objectives, including the promotion of interfaith. Hence, for one of Jehovah's Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called "Christian" association would amount to apostasy " ? Even in this regard it is wise to consider whether this course will adversely affect the consciences of others."
When joining UN in association with the DPI as an NGO, the hierarchy had to endorse the general objectives and principles of the UNO. Yet, the R& F would be severely punished if they in a minor way liked up with the YMCA.
How disgusting!!!!!!! How scandalous!!!!!! No wonder the governing body had to keep their followers in the dark for 10 years concerning their affiliation with the UNO. The reason given for joining up as NGO was to obtain library card. This is another insult, and a lie . There is ample evidence on the UNO website to pin them to that lie. It would have been advisable for the Governing Body to take advice from UNO on free speech. Witnesses however are not permitted to vocalize their concerns about mistakes made, or injustices committed by the leadership. Any member, who now discovers any cover up and dares to speak up, will soon face the elders and will be instructed to keep quiet or face judicial committee, and severe punishment.Why don?t they practise what they preach? Watchtower July 15 1996 p 18: "Humility will move us to ?pursue peace? with our brothers, admitting our mistakes and making appropriate apology."
After many years, and much experience in the Watchtower religion, I am not holding my breath. I feel deceived, betrayed and used by the hierarchy.
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Do you miss feeling that "Jehovah" was listening to prayers?
by LyinEyes inthis is hard to explain, but i will try.
the other day, my neice was put in the hospital for test , after having two seizures, she is 20 and has never had any medical problems at all.
i now know, that by doing that it seemed to take the burden of helplessness off of my shoulders.
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imfreeimfree
Hi Dede:
My dear wife and I have been reading the board intermittently for several years and wondered lately how you have been coping. We have been saddened that you have had so much to endure, so many hardships. Our hearts go out to you. Sometimes we humans are very fragile, and those false shepherds, at least some of them, in the org., instead helping us, made our loads heavier.
Do not feel guilty because your faith is not what you perhaps like it to be. Our Creator understands us. I am sure our God knows that from time to time our faith is not so strong. Our Lord Jesus never ever rejected or chastised those whose faith was wavering. Remember doubting Thomas. Our Master helped him regain his conviction. It is normal to feel bruised and feel hurt when going through ordeals such as you have experienced.
Often at night, I admire the starry heavens; what a captivating sight. Does it not fill your heart with gratitude to have the intelligence to admire such awe-inspiring creations? To be able to feel appreciation for the wondrous creations strengthens my faith. After all, if there is no all-powerful, supreme God who created the billions upon billions of galaxies that whirl in endless space, who else is there to help us, especially when we are stressed, when we are hurting. We, as mortal humans can endeavour to show empathy, express love to each other, but finally our creator only, can, in his due time, mitigate all pain and suffering.
As you say, here we can find support and encouragement. My wife and I also felt pain and disenchantment after discovering that we were hijacked by the WTBS. Now we are free after many decades in the org.
We hope your niece will improve soon.
David and wife.
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United Nations rules for NGO's the same for three decades
by Dogpatch inok gang, have at this one.
any excuses the watchtower says about the rules for ngo's changing and "after that they couldn't go along with it" is bogus, as the un states it was not altered until 1996!
if the watchtower society had any (questions) what so ever as to what they were getting themselves into, they (could) have had (consultation) by a member of the united nations, if they had any doubts about the criteria, or the united nations membership as a whole!
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imfreeimfree
Dear Randy,
Thank you so much for posting the touching love story of Vito and Annette.
I now realize how privileged I am to have my darling wife with me on this difficult journey.
After many, many years of being hyjacked we are now enjoying our freedom together.
Please confirm that it was a happy ending for Vito and Annette.
David