Posts by ackack

354

Watch Tower sues Quotes for $100,000 plus plus plus...

by Quotes in

court file no.

superior court of justice.

watchtower bible and tract society of .

ackack

Indeed. EULAs are not legally tested in anyway.

This does seem to be more of a copyright question, which I still believe is covered under "fair dealing".

ackack

354

Watch Tower sues Quotes for $100,000 plus plus plus...

by Quotes in

court file no.

superior court of justice.

watchtower bible and tract society of .

ackack

Ithinkisee, I submitted this as my /. entry:

The website quotes.watchtower.ca has been sued for (in part) violating a EULA. As seen in the Statement of Claim, "the CD-ROMs constitute confidential information" despite the fact that these publications have been disseminated publicly for years. Can someone take publicly available content, slap a EULA on it, and now its confidential? WTF?

hope it helps..

ackack

354

Watch Tower sues Quotes for $100,000 plus plus plus...

by Quotes in

court file no.

superior court of justice.

watchtower bible and tract society of .

ackack

What would make this interesting from a slashdot perspective is the heavy emphasis this lawsuit places on the violation of the EULA.

If you want to submit this to slashdot, do so from that angle. <just my two cents>

ackack

7

Arrival vs Coming

by ackack in

looking at the nwt, i notice that matt 24:46 uses the word "arrival".

but in vs 44 where it says you wouldn't know the day or hour, it uses "coming".. this is the same greek word though.

obviously this is an attempt to seperate these two verses, to make them seem like two seperate events.. doesn't this blow away the fds concept?

ackack

re: tenses. Yes, they are different tenses, but how are these two verses seperated in explaining the FDS doctrine. Its really quite incredible that these verses can be pulled so painfully out of context, when right beside it, it explains when this "coming" or "arrival" would be.

But I shouldn't really talk, I fell for it long enough myself. :)

7

Arrival vs Coming

by ackack in

looking at the nwt, i notice that matt 24:46 uses the word "arrival".

but in vs 44 where it says you wouldn't know the day or hour, it uses "coming".. this is the same greek word though.

obviously this is an attempt to seperate these two verses, to make them seem like two seperate events.. doesn't this blow away the fds concept?

ackack

Looking at the NWT, I notice that Matt 24:46 uses the word "arrival". But in vs 44 where it says you wouldn't know the day or hour, it uses "coming".

This is the same greek word though. Obviously this is an attempt to seperate these two verses, to make them seem like two seperate events.

Doesn't this blow away the FDS concept? How on earth could an apologist justify this?

ackack

38

My story of abuse and disappointment.

by ackack in

i was raised in as a jw, and got batpz at 16. i started pioneer at 18 and got married when i was 21. i was made an ms at 22, and was soon giving many parts.. my brother who was also a pioneer, eventually stopped, even stopped going to meetings.

he placed a doubt in my mind about 607. he simply told me to look at the kingdom come book appendix.. i looked at the material and was ablt to rationalize it in my mind as secular vs. biblical chronology (which is a gross oversimplification).

as well, i knew some things being done within the orginization didn't sit very well with me.

ackack

I am not ashamed of what happened to me. Nor am I a victim of it. I'm thankful that I was able to move on, to sever this relationship, and learn from it.

Its interesting, because before I decided to disassociate myself (several months before), I ran into a sister from my old book study group on my street. Now I loved the people in my book study group, and this particular sister was rather troublesome. I made an effort to listen to her, buy her a coffee, help her out with chores, let her vent. I frequently would give her rides. She saw me on the street, looked like a deer caught in headlights. As soon as she saw me, she held her head low and completely ignored me.

So that is what shunning feels like, its not a very good feeling.

Two amusing side points, I'm attempting to get a divorce from this beastly woman. She is denying the abuse completely in a court of law though. I have no proof of what I had undergone for five years (not to mention during the time i dated her). She admitted this to the elders, but would refuse to do so outside of that context. When I mentioned this to several of the elders back there (again before I DA'ed) they shrugged it off like no big deal. Aparently, I'm not to be comforted, getting a "legal" divorce was crossing the line in their minds, and I deserved what I got.

The other amusing point is that after I left, she "accused" me before the elders with having had premarital sex with me. This in fact happened 10 years ago, and when I ran into an elder on the street, he informed me they needed to have a judicial committee about this. To think, that for a sin 10 years in the past, we need to apply the law against you. Such a silly legalistic point of view. Having had sex with someone 10 years ago for a very brief period is evidently a terribly sin. Beating and belittling someone for 5 years is not so terrible.

Its funny you know, because I was the one who ultimately came forward with this information. I don't understand the standard for disfellowshipping I guess... five years, you're found out, but now all of the sudden, you're repentent.

Sorry to vent a bit here, but the injustice of it bothers me quite a bit. The continuing injustice I should say, for the legal battle still goes on.

38

My story of abuse and disappointment.

by ackack in

i was raised in as a jw, and got batpz at 16. i started pioneer at 18 and got married when i was 21. i was made an ms at 22, and was soon giving many parts.. my brother who was also a pioneer, eventually stopped, even stopped going to meetings.

he placed a doubt in my mind about 607. he simply told me to look at the kingdom come book appendix.. i looked at the material and was ablt to rationalize it in my mind as secular vs. biblical chronology (which is a gross oversimplification).

as well, i knew some things being done within the orginization didn't sit very well with me.

ackack

avishai, the website you linked to seems quite silly. rather arbitrary lines for what is abuse and what isn't. its entirely a myth that women don't abuse men. interesting article for later. Riding the Donkey Backwards: Men as the Unacceptable Victims of Marital Violence

however, personality disorders aren't fun. i'm sure they aren't fun if you have them, but certainly not much fun if you live with someone like this. the constant message of, "i hate you don't leave me". I recall once before a meeting she told me, "i shouldn't even bother going since my worship was in vain (by not staying behind to comfort her)"

my father told me to go back to that relationship because "shes going to all the meetings now". it seems so silly in retrospect, but so much emotional anguish at the time.

he believed my leaving was due to an "emotional disturbance", which i'm sure he'll also chalk up my leaving the organization to as well. funny, the ways we ignore, justify and minimize dissonant views to hang on to our failing belief structures.

he can't see why i wouldn't want to go back to that relationship. its interesting, both him and the elders told me to go back, and, if there was the slightest problem, to call the elders IMMEDIATELY. such an odd thing, to go back and have the fear of the elders coming over to keep her in line. i didn't want a relationship built on fear. the elders didn't really seem to see a problem with a relationship built upon fear. maybe a blind spot there?

38

My story of abuse and disappointment.

by ackack in

i was raised in as a jw, and got batpz at 16. i started pioneer at 18 and got married when i was 21. i was made an ms at 22, and was soon giving many parts.. my brother who was also a pioneer, eventually stopped, even stopped going to meetings.

he placed a doubt in my mind about 607. he simply told me to look at the kingdom come book appendix.. i looked at the material and was ablt to rationalize it in my mind as secular vs. biblical chronology (which is a gross oversimplification).

as well, i knew some things being done within the orginization didn't sit very well with me.

ackack

Its interesting. In other branches of Christianity, there is application of the "Pauline Privilege" with regards to abuse in a marriage. This concept is only mentioned once in a watchtower article. Never really touched on. (1 Co 7:15) The NWT deliberately obfuscates it in their translation.

1 Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving one proceeds to depart, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not in servitude under such circumstances, but God has called YOU to peace.

1 Co 7:39 A wife is bound during all the time her husband is alive. But if her husband should fall asleep [in death], she is free to be married to whom she wants, only in [the] Lord.

compared to NIV

1 Co 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.

1 Co 7:39 A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord.

A far more honest rendering in the NIV. The Watchtower argues that 1 Co 7:10 shows 1 Co 7:15 doesn't apply to being scripturally free. I'm not telling people to believe one way or the other, but citing vs 10 and misstranslating the bible is rather dishonest argumentation.

38

My story of abuse and disappointment.

by ackack in

i was raised in as a jw, and got batpz at 16. i started pioneer at 18 and got married when i was 21. i was made an ms at 22, and was soon giving many parts.. my brother who was also a pioneer, eventually stopped, even stopped going to meetings.

he placed a doubt in my mind about 607. he simply told me to look at the kingdom come book appendix.. i looked at the material and was ablt to rationalize it in my mind as secular vs. biblical chronology (which is a gross oversimplification).

as well, i knew some things being done within the orginization didn't sit very well with me.

ackack

I was raised in as a JW, and got batpz at 16. I started pioneer at 18 and got married when i was 21. I was made an MS at 22, and was soon giving many parts.

My brother who was also a pioneer, eventually stopped, even stopped going to meetings. He placed a doubt in my mind about 607. He simply told me to look at the Kingdom Come book appendix.

I looked at the material and was ablt to rationalize it in my mind as secular vs. biblical chronology (which is a gross oversimplification)

As well, I knew some things being done within the orginization didn't sit very well with me. I recall having a talk with the PO, saying, "We're losing as many as we're gaining, we need to focus on an internal ministry." I think there were some efforts made, but they eventually fizzled out. Interesting, because, I suspect if time could have been counted for this, it would have done quite well.

In the background of all this, I had a terrible secret. My wife was abusive to me behind closed doors. She would hit me, she would bite me, she would draw blood. Additionally, she was quite the hypocrite. Though she would lecture me about watching films such as Shanghi Noon, because "jehovah hates violence" she would regularly abuse me emotionally and physically.

It came to a point where i could no longer function. I was barely sleeping. I needed to leave this marriage desperately. I thought about killing myself, killing her, simply packing up and going somewhere else and forgetting everything behind me.

I talked to my father, who is an elder, about 2 years ago. About the abuse i was suffering. He basically brushed it aside and told me to work harder on my marriage. That i couldn't do anything about her, but I needed to focus on myself.

So I did re-double my efforts. I did leave though (in jan) and I never went back. Her abuse, her lies, her hypocricy left me simply not loving her anymore.

I found out about borderline personality disorder later, and I went in therapy. I could see now this fundamental personality disorder that had left my wife the abusive hateful person she was. The organization simply does not help these people. There are no Awake articles (and is therefore, incomprehensible by the elders) about this problem.

She was publicly reproved (after I refused to come back) but after I left her, it gave me the space and time to analyze my relationship to the organization as well. I could see the lies now, that falsehoods, and I didn't feel compelled to cover them over in my mind anymore.

This is a problem we don't talk about in the organization, that is of spousal abuse. Sure, we occasionally talk about husbands getting drunk and beating wives, but within the organization itself, rarely talked about. And basically never talked about when its a wife beating a husband.

The last time she attacked me, I had been working all night, and came in to wake her up for work. She told me she didn't want to work that day. I told her she HAD to get up, she couldn't sleep the day away. She smacking me in the side of my head, making my ears ring. She got up and began punching me repeatedly in the nose, biting both my shoulders and clawing my face leaving blood & a scratch.

I got her dressed for work, hailed her a cab and bought her a coffee and a bagel. When I was coming home on the subway that day, I realized I could no longer count how many times this had happened. These beatings. The verbal abuse. The physical abuse.

When she came home that day, (i was sleeping) she leaned over and said, "I'm sorry about this morning, is there anything I can get you?" I replied, "Sure how about a cup of tea." Her reply (which i still don't fully understand) was "Oh, I didn't know you were awake. If I'd known you were awake I wouldn't have asked."

I basically left that night.

Its interesting that no one in the congregation knows why I left my marriage. No local needs was given. I ran into an elder a bit latter, expressing privately some doubts I had about 1914 and 607. The very next service meeting had a local needs in it about me. The elder said, "If it doesn't come from the society, its false" (honestly, he actually said this, i have a secret phone hookup)

I disassociated myself shortly thereafter.

Just thought I'd tell me story :)

21

The Unwritten JW Law

by Fe2O3Girl in

it is clear that there is no scriptural basis for disapproving of facial hair, coloured shirts or women wearing trousers at meetings or while preaching.

some of these rules seem to be regionally variable, but i think the rules on women's clothing are the same everywhere.. my question is - has there ever been any specific comments on any of these type of rules in any watchtower publication, ever?

and if not, how do we all know the rules?.

ackack

these sorts of rules pop in most insular cultures. its not some massive conspiracy to keep beating people, or causing them to conform. though its purpose it prolly to give the community an easy way to identify an outsider and an insider.

there are so many things within the community of jw which allow them to see at a glance who is "spiritually" "weak" and who is "strong". the community needs it to stay cohesive and to be on the lookout for danger. after all, at its core, is a group of people who want to see things in a very specific way, and for the sake of the community's preservation, it needs these rules in order to protect itself.

less insular thinking == less rules