Posts by AllAlongTheWatchtower

32

TIME FOR ANOTHER LAUGH!

by Dansk in

feel free to post your jokes here!.

a man sees a sign in front of a house in luton: 'talking dog for sale.

' he rings the bell and the owner tells him the dog is in the back garden.

The above link is for a single joke with 3 possible answers, it's been around a while so some of you may already know about it, sorry if it's old news, but it will be hilarious to those who haven't heard it yet.

290

JW Children Lie in Custody Cases

by compound complex in

direct and cross-examination questions in child custody cases.

wtb&ts, page 42.

"be careful that they [jw children being questioned] don't get the impression that they are in a demonstration at the circuit assembly, when they would show that the first things in life are service and going to the kingdom hall.

AllAlongTheWatchtower

RE: Oroborus21

Not sure how to take this guy...I think some of you may have misjudged him, he might simply be very conflicted and searching for answers himself. I base this hypothesis on the fact that I found this link on his site: http://www.jehovahs-witnesses.info/Money.html which offers CoC for sale, and also has a link to the freeminds site*. Furthermore, he also has a link to a page that seems to promote a countermovement of JWs from the inside out: http://www.jehovahs-witnesses.info/Revolution.html It would almost appear as though he fancies himself a JW double agent...or is it triple agent?

*Plus many others: http://www.jehovahs-witnesses.info/Links.html

Definitely seems a bit slimy though, since his site sponsors this link:

http://www.ukrainian-dreamgirls.com/

And I find it ironic that he seemingly supports the JW cause, and wonder if he has JW clients, and what they would think of this link:

http://www.oroborus21.com/oroborus.html

Snakes and spirtism and mythology, oh my!

TO: Oroboros21:

If your daughter's website is solely for family, why put a link to it on your business website, for all the web viewing public to discover? Your denial of grasping for donations seems a bit hollow on that point. And if you truly see yourself as an agent of change (as seems to be indicated by your 'Revolution' link) from within, how can you in good conscience defend the booklet being discussed in this thread? Keeping up appearances to be able to work 'inside' is one thing, but at some point you have to draw a line in the sand.

RE: The Original Topic

I can't provide too many details, as doing so could (slim chance, but chance nonetheless) lead to me being identified by family members, but I was a child in the WWCG, founded by Herbert W Armstrong. I have never been a Witness, some of you familiar with my story may know I joined this site to prevent my wife from becoming entrapped by them before it was too late. In my efforts to do so, I began to remember some of my childhood experiences, and noticed how similar stories I read on here about the JWs were to my own in the WWCG. (Sidenote to Oroborus21: if you really do want to change the Society from within, you would do well to research Armstrong and how that church reformed upon his death, if you have not done so already, but I have a suspicion you have.)

This is one area which REALLY brings back the old memories. I became a ward of the state after being taken from my parents' custody in my adolescent years. There were several court trials due to this... it is still difficult to think about this time period in my life, but in the end it was a good thing for me. I already had doubts about "God's one true church" (funny how they ALL claim that) because of my interest in the sciences and how it conflicted with biblical accounts (the flood, etc), even at that young age. Then due to my participation and testimony in the court cases my parents and I were involved in, I was DFed from the WWCG, and told not to come to any more YOU (Youth Opportunities United, the church youth group) events. I was deemed a "bad influence on the other youth" and potentially "a bad apple that could spoil the whole basket". I had also "failed to honor your father and mother". I was 13.

While in foster care, I enjoyed new freedom, even dared to eat forbidden foods like ham and seafood. (I was also near convinced that when I threw up after eating crabs for the first time that it was a punishment direct from god for daring to eat "unclean fruits", though I later realized that I had probably just eaten those little parts you aren't supposed to...to this day I don't really like shellfish much.) After about a year though, due to my own fears about my uncertain future if left in foster care longterm, and emotional blackmail on the part of my parents, and to be quite honest, a bit of homesickness, I started wanting to go back. My father would call me before court dates, tell me things like "I'm gonna go to jail if you testify" and "Your mother is thinking about leaving me, if she does we won't be saved" (WWCG taught that divorce was a taboo of the highest order). He would then try to coach me on answers to various questions I might be asked. Whether he had help from a booklet similar to the one discussed here, or from a church pastor, or did it on his own, I do not know. But it was definitely an effort to put some very bad things in a completely false light, for the better.

Suffice to say that when the date of one of the biggest courtdates came, I found myself very confused. I had been taught all my life that lying was wrong, but here I was being told to lie. As I sat on the witness stand, I had no idea how to solve this dilemna or what to do. So I rationalized that not speaking was not lying, and faked (in retrospect, fairly easy to do, and probably pretty close to doing so already anyway, though I had always prided myself on being a very logical and calm person, not emotional) an emotional breakdown, just sat on the witness stand crying. After a couple minutes when the judge could plainly see that no useful testimony was to be had from me, I was excused. The case was dismissed in short order, and soon after that I went back home-only to discover after a couple months that the old adage "careful what you wish for" was certainly true. To this day I sometimes wonder what might have been had I spoken up and testified...

54

Da' Colt's and Da' Bears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by AK - Jeff in

i consider brooke my friend - but two weeks from now i will be rooting against your bears, babe!!!.

what a finish for the colts - bout time.

i have been waiting for them to get to the "show" since they moved to indiana.. go colts!

AllAlongTheWatchtower

Being an old Baltimore Colts fan, I will be rooting for the Bears, while hoping next year is better for the Redskins. Poetic justice would have been for the Ravens to whoop the tar out of the Colts, unfortunately that didn't happen.

93

It must be "Global Warming"

by Warlock in

snow in malibu yesterday.

.

this morning i had to scrape the ice off my windshield and back window.. on the way to work i saw many a frozen front lawn and most cars were covered with ice like mine.. all on the outskirts of los angeles.. it must be "global warming".. warlock.

AllAlongTheWatchtower

"When I was at school scientists talked of another ice age coming, now it's global warming" -wozadummy

I remember that too, late 70's I believe it was, there was a lot of talk about how average temps were 2-3 degrees LOWER than average. I was a kid in the WWCG at the time, Armstrong used that (along with any other headlines he could use to advantage, much like Awake articles) as a harbinger of doom and said it proved his prophecies were on the right track.

Because of that, and because of my skepticism of those who trumpet this in the streets the loudest (the Al Gores, Michael Moores, etc), I have until recently been in the 'doubter' category on the global warming issue. My opinions are beginning to swing though, currently I guess you could say I'm on the fence, not really sure one way or the other. One big thing that got me re-thinking my stance was the recent ice shelf break-off you're probably all aware of.

The trouble is, for an average citizen it can be difficult to discern the truth, there is so much information out there; you have to read it, then consider the source, track it back to the sponsors, etc. to formulate an opinion. Regarding that hole in the ozone somebody mentioned, I thought I remembered a couple years back actually hearing that it was shrinking...? The thing is, contrary to what Kudra said which implied that the "naysayers" are only basing their opinion on "backyard weather" and past memories, I HAVE done some research on this. I COULD cite articles which claim or theorize that warming trends are caused by sunspots and other sun related info (solar variation theory), or mention 'Urban Heat Islands' which are thought by some to falsely inflate temperature data, etc. As with religion though, it seems to me that many people's opinions are already set in stone, based on their political leanings.

Notes: It is also worth mentioning that even the advocates of some of these alternate theories admit that they are either flawed or cannot account for 100% of the warming trend findings, many of them readily accept that anthropogenic causes are at least partially to blame as well. Another thing is that meteorology is a relatively new science; reliable, accurate data only goes back about 150 years.

And just because I can't resist playing devil's advocate:

http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2005/09/sunwarm.html

While the above article specifically states that they do NOT discount greenhouse gasses and other anthropogenic causes of warming, they DO believe that it has been overstated due to a lack of attributing solar causes, which they believe to be responsible for between 10-30% of the problem. It is things like this that cause me to remain on the fence and be undecided overall as to who is right. While I won't go as far as to say it's all "much ado about nothing", it seems to me that it might be 'much ado about somewhat less than some people would have you think'.

7

JWs take on Ice Age?

by Inquisitor in

...not the computer animation!.

when i was a jw kid, i got the impression that jws (like other die-hard creationists) attributed all evidences of an ice age to the noachian flood.

problem is, that point of view seems to think that the polar ice caps are the only natural phenomenon that needed explanation (read "explaining away").. the noachian flood perspective does not explain what large glaciers are doing in places like papua new guniea or new zealand.. the same biblical explanation also does not address the evidence for multiple (~4?

AllAlongTheWatchtower

The simple answer is, I don't think they really DO think about such things, not much or for long...it strains their faith, which leads to guilt that they had doubts. The standard answers then become either "God lets it appear this way to test our faith" or "The Devil is tempting/deceiving you". Part of the problem being that JWs are discouraged from higher education, where they might actually learn enough science to make the lightbulb appear over their heads. There are lots of examples of this, when I was growing up in the WWCG (which is quite similar to JWs), a few fun questions to ask older people were:

Did you know that even at lightspeed, when you look at the sun what you're seeing is actually light that has been on it's way 8 minutes ago? (Many will want to appear knowledgable, or may have even heard this factoid before, so will answer "yes") Then you hit them- Well, did you also know that it takes roughly 2 1/2 million years before the light from Andromeda reaches us? (This will stump most of them, but if you can get them to accept the premise, you've got them in a corner already, they just don't know it.) So, if it took 2 1/2 million years for that light to get here...what does that mean to the creation theory, where the earth is only 6,000 years old? Most will hem and haw and fade back into pat answers or the ever present "god works in mysterious ways" / "we can't begin to understand the god-tastic universe". Just a few... a very few, may begin to think.

Diamonds was another favorite of mine in this category...most women have at least their wedding ring if married, or a favorite pair of earrings, whatever- people are basically familiar with diamonds. So you ask them, "Did you know it takes millions of years to form first coal, then diamonds, from carbon?" You see where I'm going with this, and many times they would too... standard answers were often something on the lines of "God must have created them already made".

Trying to talk too much logic with people mislead into controlled paths such as the JWs or WWCG is much like trying to win an arguement with a kid over Superman. "Superman is ultimately strong, he can break anything". "Superman is ultimately tough, he can take anything". Oh yeah kid? So what if big bad Superman punched himself? *blank stare*

28

Green Urban Legend

by james_woods in

jw
friends

the thread on the wt going into the red, and the remark on "cheap paperback bibles" made me think of the old green nwt.. there was a lot of buzz back then about why it was green.

i heard these from various cos -.

a) it was green to prove that it was not from christendom.

AllAlongTheWatchtower

Regarding the alleged cigarette - green bible connection: The only story I know that involves the use of green specifically in the production of cigarettes is that of Lucky Strikes. Urban legend has it that Lucky Strike changed from a green pack to a white pack in the 40's to aid the war effort (green being in high demand by the military for uniforms, paint on vehicles, etc). According to sources I've read on the web though, this was just an advertising gimmick by Lucky Strike that caught on and became accepted as fact, while not actually being true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_Strike

http://www.snopes.com/business/market/luckystrike.asp

While it seems unlikely that in 1961, roughly 20 years after the fact, the WTS could have somehow gotten ahold of some surplus green paper or ink cheaply from the WWII era, I suppose it is possible. I remember reading on this board that the WTS has been exposed as owning stock in the tobacco industry despite their anti-smoking policy, so I did a little digging to see who currently owns Lucky Strike for a possible connection. According to Google business directory, BAT (British American Tobacco) currently owns the Lucky Strike Brand. I then searched for WTS-tobacco links on Google, and got few results (most of which came from here and other anti-cult sites, apparently the rest of the world could care less who owns what). Anyway, the company that the WTS was involved with (still is?) was Phillip Morris, which as near as I can tell, never owned or produced Lucky Strike cigarettes. So the connection is tenuous at best, I only wrote this as a bit of interesting information.

38

Scared....

by coolcat in

hello all.

i just joined the site.

does anyone know of a hotline or a phone number i can call to talk to someone about how to leave the truth?

AllAlongTheWatchtower

"divorced and of course my family welcomed me back in w/ open arms"

"I'm scared of being left all alone"

"I have a worldly best friend who is always trying to encourage me to get out and live my own life"

"don't want to feel so miserable and 'in prison' "

From your statements and general tone of your post, I get the impression that maybe you moved back in with your parents after your divorce? I could be way off base on that one, but I just get that feeling. The first step to you achieving independence and freedom, if so, will be to find some way to move out on your own, or with a roomie...maybe this friend of yours, Alicia. Assuming I'm right, this will help in many ways: one, you will need a job to be able to pay bills; this will give you an excuse to get out of the house and out of meetings, service, etc. Two, once you have some money of your own, you can move out, with the obvious benefits of not living at home with people that you no longer agree with philosophically. Three, doing all these things will require more interaction with those people you would have called "worldly" up until now, which will help you establish a new guideline of what is 'normal' and where you are in life. You definitely should try to develop more "outside" friendships.

Depending on how sneaky or brave you feel like being, the further you move, the better. Far enough so that you would have to attend a new kingdom hall is best, that way people who know you now will be less likely or able to check on you, and you can start slacking off on attendance. Course, if I'm wrong all this is pretty useless advice. My older siblings escaped the Worldwide Church of God pretty much by doing all the above as soon as they could. I sympathize with you greatly, as you remind me of my oldest sister- she too had a failed marriage "outside of the church" which resulted in a split that never healed in my family. I ended up in state care as a teen, so much of the process of escaping was done for me.

If I'm right though, be careful about your computer usage-if it's your parents' computer and they are pretty computer literate, they can check back to see what sites you've visted. Have to be sly, always reach this site and other "apostate" sites from a search engine, not directly, and delete cookies and history if you know how. Sorry if that's elementary to you, and you're already aware, or if this doesn't apply in the first place because my initial guess was wrong...but even if you live on your own and family visits you, they could check your computer. The best solution of all is to use a library computer, for the time being.

Best of luck to you, and hope you stick around here long enough to escape there.

39

How did you choose your avatar or board name?

by new boy in

jw
friends

new boy.

it is what they call new guys at bethel.

its a way the guys, who have been there awile (like over a year) to put you down.................if you are a new boy you don't know how the organization really works.. one of my favorite new boy stories is about lyman swingle gb.. lunch in the 124 lower dining room 1973. lyman swingle table head said to a new black bethelite........"boy would you pass me the potatos?

AllAlongTheWatchtower

More or less on a whim, I chose Jimi Hendrix's song title as my name, because I couldn't think of anything better, and for the line "there must be some kind of way out of here", as in, out of the JWs for my wife, who was getting caught up in their webs at the time I joined here. I later wished I had chosen something better or at least shorter, because many others found it too long and unwieldy to type, so I end up being referred to as AATW by most other posters. But then I decided it was even more appropriate than I first thought, as I began to learn more about the (B)org, and other lines of the song took on a second meaning to me.

Like in the second line about confusion-how many JWs actually understand or struggle with the various doctrines, like 607 BCE, 1914, etc? And businessmen drink my wine = GB and WBTS sucks up the money of the rank and file, while none of them know what it's worth = how little the members actually know about the vast real estate holdings and other finances of the society. A parallel could also be seen in the line life is but a joke; as in most JWs think "this worldly existence" is just a prelude to paradise, not to be taken seriously...don't go to college, etc.

There must be some kind of way out of here, said the joker to the thief

There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief

Businessmen they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth

None of them along the line, know what any of it is worth

No reason to get excited, the thief he kindly spoke

There are many here among us, who feel that life is but a joke

But you and I we've been through that, and this is not our fate

Let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late

36

What JW 'belief' offends you the most?

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

?

AllAlongTheWatchtower

I've never actually been a JW myself, I joined this site to learn about them and once I learned, to keep my wife from joining them. So pardon me if I get some details wrong, but this is what offends me or bothers me most about them:

1) They print their own version of the bible, with alterations that back up their teachings. It is impossible to discuss tenets of the JWs and disprove them from a biblical standpoint because of this, in arguements I've had with my wife, she would just say "but it's in the bible" To which I'd say "yeah, but it's THEIR bible". She thinks they just took out all the thees and thous to make it easier on folks to understand, she does not get that they made key changes.

2) The "opposer" doctrine. I dunno what they actually call this, but it's what I call the practice of teaching people that if your spouse/family members don't "see the light" then they're the enemy. Which sets up "unbelieving mates" and "unequally yoked before the lord" and all that other horsecrap that makes being the spouse of a JW a nightmare. Luckily for me, mine never got that deeply into it, but the horror stories I've read from some people on here that had it far worse than me make you want to strangle the ones responsible.

2b) The "porneia" (sp?) I list this as 2b rather than a seperate point, because I almost could believe that they did this on purpose...it certainly meshes well with the "opposer" doctrine and creates more friction in the home, a sort of synergistic effect, whether it was intended that way or not. Suddenly, not only is the spouse the enemy, but you can deny them certain sex acts and they have no right to be upset about it- and if they are upset, it PROVES they're just an evil opposer sent by demons to "stumble" you.

3) This one isn't even a belief, it's just what is-not sure whether to more properly label it as sad, ironic, or insulting, but the fact that they're a publishing company at heart, rather than a religion. It was so weird when I first learned that there were people called "publishers" within the JWs, I was like...huh? Why a publisher? Then I began to learn how it was all about the tracts and other literature.

16

Jehovah`s Witness`s For Sale!

by OUTLAW in

jw
friends

wbt$ liturature is a failing business..donations down..costs remain the same..at some point a decision has to be made to stop hemoraging money..wbt$ has many business interests..sometimes a corporation will sell a failing business off to another corporation..that corporation will buy the business in hope of turning it around and makeing a profit again.....do you think the wbt$ would ever put the "jehovah`s witness religion" up for sale?...outlaw

AllAlongTheWatchtower

LOL @ Jayhawk1...what you said reminded me of the Addams Family movie, where the little girl says "that depends...are your cookies made with real girl scouts?".