Wow, I read all 12 pages too and I am pretty much where TD is. I don't think she is a troll, maybe just okay with hypocrisy? I am not sure...
Layla33
JoinedPosts by Layla33
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383
Thinking of becoming a Witness again and my reasons for doing so :(
by reniaa ini've been a faded jw for 10 years i left because of my failed first marriage, i'm no hypocrite and realised i had left completely so i embraced the world and dived in, only christmas and birthdays i could not get into, they were too foreign to me having never celebrated them, like if i suddenly tried to do ramadan or something like that.. 1/ all the criticisms of the people in the truth you say on here, i've found in the world, warts and all only in the world nothing holds them back from being utterly horrible to you.. 2/ i got stabbed by a worldly boyfriend, i got married 2 times of my own choosing to men outside the truth, the first smoked and was an alcoholic, the second gambled every penny we had and defrauded me out of money after we separated, 2 divorces later i am currently pregnant and a single mum since current boyfriend decided kids was to much of a responsibility and he needed his freedom and i was 'too selfish to expect him to give up his life'.. 3/ parents-in-law!
i have been shunned by them as equal to anything you accuse witness families of and for the silliest of reasons, i had a disabled son and his grandparents said they wanted nothing to do with him because they didn't want to become attached in case he died.. 4/ i miss the honest friendships of the truth, i had friends of all ages from 14 to 80 years old and they genuinely cared for me, many trying to keep me in the faith a long time after i left but i was determined to fade so moved away completely, but i find friendships in the world so shallow in comparison and very hard to sustain :( i've never been a drinker and sometimes thats what friendship means you being a companion for them to goto pub with.. 5/ my recent boyfriend was in a christian religion, i thought why not find out about it, harvest churches if you ever heard of them, unfortunately it still hasn't stop him leaving me pregnant and alone and when i said to him how does he clear that with god, he replies "as long as i repent it doesn't matter" it's like he has a "get out of jail free card" for any wrong-doing in the bible, this is so alien to me and my witness trained conscience.. 6/ i recently out of frustration tried looking into atheism and joined their forums, it wasn't fun, they are as bombastic and arrogant as their religious counterparts can be from any religion, they make a religion out of not believing in god, it's very weird they talk of saving people from believing in god and offer nothing to replace it.
they said to me "be happy you are in reality now and enjoy it" and i thought "well if this is reality i've had enough of it".
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Immigration
by Princess Daisy Boo inloubelle has started a couple of threads about the really bad situation we are living in here in sa.
they are no exaggeration - things really are not great and people around us all seem to be talking about whether to leave or not.
and for the first time, we are amongst those talking about leaving - debating whether or not we would be able to give up life here and start over somewhere else.
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Layla33
A study was done on the affects of long term psychological affects of oppression, hate and discrimination, where people/animals are mistreated and abused over long periods of time and the outcomes of that. The results of the findings were pretty interesting. In all studies the result with people/animals internatlizing these things and turning on each other. This has been seen through out many different scenarios and on animals it was even more abundantly clear, with rats engaging in killer like and savage behavior towards each other after being victims of said behavior.
Just thought I would add this to this debate as again, it is being taken from a TOPIC about immigration into something else.
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Immigration
by Princess Daisy Boo inloubelle has started a couple of threads about the really bad situation we are living in here in sa.
they are no exaggeration - things really are not great and people around us all seem to be talking about whether to leave or not.
and for the first time, we are amongst those talking about leaving - debating whether or not we would be able to give up life here and start over somewhere else.
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Layla33
But, you've never met me. Go back & read your posts, and your insulting comments to Skeeter and Skeeter's ideas.
Skeeter
Why are you referring to yourself in the second person? I do not know you, I never wrote any of my references to you commenting on Africa, to anything personal to you. If you can't separate that when discussing and debating subjects, maybe you need to do any inventory of yourself when responding to topics where someone disagrees with your perspective. I can't hold your hand here, I can just say if you are not detached than you will go all over, as you have done and make it something it is not.
You insulted people that disagreed with your opinion of Africa, as delusional. That's what you wrote, no one wrote it for you. That was pretty insulting. And even when I responded I did not focus on that and honestly did not make many remarks towards you, just overall on my experiences and thoughts on Africa.
You came back with assertions about someone saying you didn't like black people? Who said that? No one. You made that up. Then you wrote all over the internet and beyond link stories and books back and forth without any real connection to the topic at hand but more about protecting your ability to remark on a place you never been. Then you started making unprovoked silly retorts to me about checking with me first, making your thoughts known but continually referencing me. Why? I wasn't focused on you in that way, it didn't make a bit of sense why you were getting that emotionally and ego centered in your response or why on earth you were focusing so much on me. This topic is not about me, if you don't like my opinion, stay on the topic, you don't have to engage me at all. But you did. Then you ask me a question about places I would actually move in Africa, and I should have realized that it was not part of this topic, but you starting some kind of egocentric challenge, but along with it, to which you responsed with some ridiculous silly response up to and including, "let's buy a ticket and go" or however you refer to yourself in the second person. Of course I scratched my head through out. Then finally you want to buy me a ticket to Africa. Sorry, but that causes me to believe that something is not right with you. With all the people that I disagreed with on this topic, not one went to the levels that you did and only you can answer why, but it made no sense. That's my bottom line. I do not know you, but this behavior is incredibly unnecessary when it is just a difference opinion.
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Immigration
by Princess Daisy Boo inloubelle has started a couple of threads about the really bad situation we are living in here in sa.
they are no exaggeration - things really are not great and people around us all seem to be talking about whether to leave or not.
and for the first time, we are amongst those talking about leaving - debating whether or not we would be able to give up life here and start over somewhere else.
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Layla33
Frankly you both went off topic - this was about immigration because of crime & corruption and had nothing to do with race/travel/extended stays. Yes there has always been crime and corruption but it's really really is out of hand.
Are you saying it is out of hand now or was it not out of hand before when the entire international community condemned you? I am just trying to understand why you are saying it is any different than it was before when millions of people were treated like animals and denied access to their fundamental liberities. No one is disputing that there is crime and corruption, I just am trying to understand how you think it is any different than it was before? Honestly, I think it has to do with the perspective. And that was my point. I feel sad about the corruption and I think any white south african that can get an ancestral visa should do so and leave. But I also believe that there has to be people that are committed to the long term goals and progress of South Africa regardless of the hardships they are facing now, and those are going to be most likely people that can't rely on an ancestral visa because that is their land and home. Does that make sense?
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Immigration
by Princess Daisy Boo inloubelle has started a couple of threads about the really bad situation we are living in here in sa.
they are no exaggeration - things really are not great and people around us all seem to be talking about whether to leave or not.
and for the first time, we are amongst those talking about leaving - debating whether or not we would be able to give up life here and start over somewhere else.
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Layla33
Ego? Who is calling who the names..and who is labeling who? You have called me and my ideas all sorts of names, now comparing me to an immature, American bigot!
The first poster was concerned about her safety. The posters in South Africa talk about the current situation the best. I posted a few news articles on South Africa, one from the United Nations. I think they report the situation in an unbiased way.. I stand by their words on the situation.
The first poster is concerned about her family. I could not imagine telling my son or daughter, "I'm sorry you were raped at school today. It's the hundreds of years of racial oppression that has caused this current violence. But, South Africa will turn around. You'll just have to live through this chaos. And, we'll get you the drugs so your HIV doesn't turn into AIDS."
I also stand by the United States' travel advisories and warnings. You posted that Africa is not a mess. You posted that Nigeria, Kenya, Sudan, etc. were places you'd like to live. At this point, I'm willing to buy you a plane ticket to those places. Live in peace.
Skeeter
Well let's clear this up then because obvious you have an issue here. I never called YOU anything, I do not know you, I have no idea who you are. I spoke about your pronouncements in topics and my opinion on such. Never wast it personal, not once. You brought up all kinds of things in your response to me that had absolutely nothing to do with my ONE response to you. Again, read what I wrote, I went out of my way to say, I am not trying to offend you and I was pretty respectful and direct in my criticism, but it was not personal. I am shocked to read this.
When this forum started, I responded that if the poster is concerned about her family she should move. Read it, you obviously didn't.
As far as people connected to a land staying and fiighting, that's a personal choice, Native Americans stayed and fighted for their land for many reasons, I respect that. Asians would say and fight for their land because they are connected to it. It does not diminish what may currently happening in their country.
You know I have a right to think whatever I like about any country in Africa. Where I would live and where I could possibly live is COMPLETELY out of the context of this discussion, this is where you are irrational and out of line. Reading that convinces me that something is not quite right about you. Buying me a ticket so I can live in peace?! I am peace now and I am peace wherever I go because I carry peace with me, I am not out looking for it. Nothing you said has any relevence to this topic. Again, I am not sure what is going on with you, but please do not infer your irrational ideas onto me. This is simply a topic with a difference of opinion, no one needs to buy a plane ticke to live anywhere. My goodness.
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My neice died this morning
by MsMcDucket inmy neice who had cancer died at 3:00 a.m. my sister just called and told me.
i'll put up the obituiaries when it's posted.
no need for responses.
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Layla33
Oh my goodness, my sincerest condolescences.
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Immigration
by Princess Daisy Boo inloubelle has started a couple of threads about the really bad situation we are living in here in sa.
they are no exaggeration - things really are not great and people around us all seem to be talking about whether to leave or not.
and for the first time, we are amongst those talking about leaving - debating whether or not we would be able to give up life here and start over somewhere else.
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Layla33
Layla, we have a difference of opinion. You see Africa as the perverbial, more than half full haven for human peace. I see it as more than half empty. Africa and South Africa in a mess, in my opinion. The poster in South Africa appear to be a very bad situation, in their own words. I responded so many times in this thread becuase you called my ideas & myself "ignorant", "stupid", and "childish." If you publicly call me these words, then I will publicly respond. If Simon or Lady Lee have a problem with me defending my views on the South African or African poitical situation on a thread that is about a person wanting to emigrate because of the high rate of crime, they can cut me off JWD. I dont' care if you don't care for my ideas. I am not here to please you, as I will not be able to...unless I say, "Africa is a haven of peace, prosperity, opportunity, overall." Skeeter
Well then stop making it about me. You have never been there, do you even know any South Africans in person? I have spent a good deal of time in Africa and South Africa, I was not just there for one week or two, I was there for a lot longer, I was able to do so through my now ex - husband. His cousin is married to a South African woman, we stayed with them, more than once. It was not some "holiday" or short trip and when you have family that lives there, they show you all the ins and outs. There were places in South Africa that I was appalled to see. I think a lot of your perspective is ignorant because you are missing the point and we are sitting here debating over nothing. If you were a centered mature person, the first time we agreed to disagree that would have been the end of it. But no, again, the ego and other OCD qualities are kind of weird to read, but considering that a lot of former JW's and those still in it are engrained that they need to have the last word and make their point, I am not surprised, just taken aback by it.
And my point is you really didn't read my remarks at all, did you? Never did I once say that South Africa wasn't full of corruption, read back, and see exactly what I wrote. However, you made a sweeping generalization on the entire continent, a continent you have never set foot to live. I responded initially to that because that's silly to me because there are a lot of nice places to live, where people would never imagine leaving and would totally disgusted and insulted by some American sitting on an internet pronouncing about their lives - I know plenty of these people and I spoke not just for my own personal opinion but the many African friends and former family that I have. Is there no wonder that a lot of the rest of the world considers Americans to be the most self-centered, ignorant, ethnocentric bigots on the planet. And get this, when they actually surveyed happiness in the world, guess where a lot of the world's happiest people lived? Right there in Africa and guess where some of the most angry, depressed, unhappy lived? Right here in the US.
So understand that I don't care if you agree or not, but to perserve the topic, don't make it personal about your ego or anything else. We all have different perspectives, if you are an adult, act like one and don't make it petty and out of line. I absolutely hate when people do that online, it is so unnecessary. So for the last time, agree to disagree and move on. If you have anything to say to me directly, stop polluting the topic and make the PM your friend. Otherwise, stop making it about me, since you proclaim you don't care what I think. You rconstant references to me show otherwise and it is way over the context of this thread. Are we clear?
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i wrote a letter to the jw wife of the man that abused my child,
by looloo inshe is standing by him!
she does not believe he did abuse my child , even though he is serving a prison term for abusing other children(my childs allegations were to difficult to proove , so the cps dropped the charges despite believing her allegations ) i do not understand why she would believe him , when the reason she is with him is because as a child she played with his daughters and eventually he made a move on her .
before her he had abused other friends of his daughters (the elders never reported it to the police )his 1 st wife divorced him , then he married her and she became my friend , which is how he got to know my child .
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Layla33
She is an enabler and if you look at the wives of violent offenders and child abusers, you might be surprised at how many try to ignore and justify their mates behavior until one day they wake up. It's kind of sad, but beyond giving her the information, that's all you can expect. She's working out her own path, and her realizations may come at another time.
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Immigration
by Princess Daisy Boo inloubelle has started a couple of threads about the really bad situation we are living in here in sa.
they are no exaggeration - things really are not great and people around us all seem to be talking about whether to leave or not.
and for the first time, we are amongst those talking about leaving - debating whether or not we would be able to give up life here and start over somewhere else.
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Layla33
Oh and my response stands, when has SOUTH AFRICA NOT BEEN A MESS?
The majority of people that lived there were treated to the worst crimes of humanity that no human should have to endure.
That is my point and it was my point and it will remain my point.
The only South Africans that are speaking here are white south africans, and no one else. It would be the same if someone was discussing China. You may live in China your whole life, but don't you think a Chinese person who has lived there for generations and can trace their family back thousands of years can discuss another segment to the end of "white rule" in their country and how it affects everyone? That's my point and it is still my point.
I really truly believe you should immigrate and that is what I said and will continue to say. I do believe that South Africa will rise again, I hope to live to see it. I would love to see the native indigeneous people empowered over their country to bring it to peace and equality for all. I would say the same thing about China when it ended white imperalism, and the Chinese people were able to take back their country and bring it to peace and equality.
I believe that a lot of the strife, corruption and issues that South Africa is facing today, is a DIRECT RESULT of the many many many years of Apartheid and crimes against humanity. Ignoring that aspect of it, does a disservice to possible solutions.
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Immigration
by Princess Daisy Boo inloubelle has started a couple of threads about the really bad situation we are living in here in sa.
they are no exaggeration - things really are not great and people around us all seem to be talking about whether to leave or not.
and for the first time, we are amongst those talking about leaving - debating whether or not we would be able to give up life here and start over somewhere else.
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Layla33
Skeeter,
You really truly hijacked this thread. When someone responds once to a remark that's cool, but to continually post information that is not only not totally relevant to the topic at hand, but as I mentioned before has more to do with the OCD I see that happens on forums when someone's ego is challenged, it's kind of a shame. I am sure all parties that were interested in the topic, who had different views, could have done without all the links, posts and 10 posts of nothing but three party responses.
You gave an opinion, that I took exception to, because it was offensive and insulting to all the native Africans that live there. If you said it about India, I would feel the same. If you said it about China I would feel the same way.
Africa is NOT a mess, I disagree with you. Accept it and move on. You haven't even been there. There are just as many valid responses about the United States of America. And what? Does that discount your little story about living in Florida??