Mephis, don't you think the WT would rather this just went away? If it goes to the Supremes, it will only be struck down or upheld as a law. If struck down, we do not live any longer in a culture or society that would accept them writing one that would exclude clergy in any religion from reporting. In no way would that law ever cover that particular situation or really any JC, so it is a lose-lose scenario from what I can discern (I could be missing something!). As long as they never push it that far, they can continue to play stupid every time and try to get away with it. I can't wait until Law and Order addresses this issue with the JWs and names religions directly like they have with other religions (catholics and ultra orthodox jews, for two examples) They have no clergy and it is a judicial committee, not a confessional, even if confessions happen. Not one JW has any expectation of privacy when there are two or more elders present and that is amply demonstrated here as people are constantly wary of being in the presence of two of them after they have faded or otherwise left the congregation without any formalities.
JWdaughter
JoinedPosts by JWdaughter
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161
Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation
by OrphanCrow incourt denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.
a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.
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161
Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation
by OrphanCrow incourt denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.
a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.
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JWdaughter
Fisherman said: You mean the Court is wrong because that is what they decided in their "Opinion". They get to decide, and they determined that IT DOES APPLY TO THEM.My post correctly represents the Court's decision.
I disagree. The court pointed out, in detail, all the reasons that even IF in a sense (being liberal with the interpretation) that the clergy privilege could be applied to religions other than the churches that actually have clergy and penitential confessions, NONE of what happened would have applied since one of the confessors was a victim and under 18, one or both were there speaking to the elders under duress, and both were disciplined publicly, not given any kind of absolution. Nothing about that situation, even if the law was applied in a broader sense, would come under privilege. Which is why the decision was made. It does not mean that the issue can't be discussed further in the actual trial though. I think the WT will make sure that it all goes away before that happens.
I read the ruling and if the court somehow gets the entire law struck down as unconstitutional, then the LAW will not exist to even be argued about unless the court makes ANOTHER law. NO CLERGY or RELIGIOUS personage of any kind will have sacramental confession (won't break my heart a bit!) privilege. If the law is struck down, the WT is really up a creek. If they interpret it in ANY way at all as other religions qualifying (which they usually do), there still has to be other conditions for the thing to apply and the WT doesn't meet any of them. There is NO way in any scenario that the WT can prevail on this one w/o payoffs. There is no privilege, no voluntary meeting instigated by the confessor, no absolution and the WT is just tough out of luck. The best they can do is have a law struck down, but while it is on its face seemingly unconstitutional, it was the straw they were grasping at in this case.
Fisherman, I'm curious about how you feel about this as a person, possibly a parent and possibly as a elder or just a JW? Do you think they are picking on JWs? Do you think the WT policy is great, ok or acceptable? I'm curious about the JW on the street, here. You seem to still be one.
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Walking a thin line - Resigning Elder
by Sanchy inwarning of a long boring post ahead.
i feel like i need to vent my story out, as i feel quite helpless at the moment.. i'm 31 year old, married, father of toddler with another one on the way, due later this month.
i've been serving as elder for about 4 years now in a south florida congregation.
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JWdaughter
Welcome. I have no good advice to offer. I was DA'd as a teenager-never even baptized. I will say I am hoping for the best outcome for your family, but I recognize how much of a challenge you are facing.
I notice how young you were when made an elder (and still so young!). We did not have a single elder under 40 when I was in, 35 years ago. Back then, young whippersnappers like yourself were lucky to be a MS! Except we said "fortunate" since" lucky" would get us a standard lecture. on the use of such a worldly word. I am sure they will miss you in the hall.
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Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation
by OrphanCrow incourt denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.
a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.
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JWdaughter
this is an interesting case and I hope we get to hear what ultimately happens.
Here is the thing. There have been court cases that addressed this before. The kind of "confession" that the WT does is not unlike this one, other than the fact that others can be called in for judgement and possible expulsion from the congregation.
" Massachusetts: In Commonwealth v. Drake [(1818) 15 Mass., 154], it was argued on the one side that a confession of a criminal offence made penitentially by a member of a certain Church to other members, in accordance with the discipline of that Church, may not be given in evidence. These others (who were not clergy) were called as witnesses. The solicitor-general argued that religious confession was not protected from disclosure. He also took the point that in this case "the confession was not to the church nor required by any known ecclesiastical rule", but was made voluntarily to friends and neighbours. The court held that the evidence was rightly received (not protected)."
Chief justice Berger said this (and it speaks to why the WT does NOT qualify under this condition, ""The priest penitent privilege recognizes the human need to disclose to a spiritual counselor, in total and absolute confidence, what are believed to be flawed acts or thoughts and to receive priestly consolation and guidance in return."
That has NOTHING to do with Judicial Committees. Never has, never will.
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Daughter FINALLY escaped!
by MindBlown666 inwow....has it been a while!
i hope many of you are doing good!
it's awesome to see many of you holding strong, and keeping the site going!.
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JWdaughter
Really great and joyful news! -
31
What sort of EX JW Book do you like to read?
by punkofnice inwhat sort of ex jw books do you folks like to read?.
i want to write another one.. i'm wondering what my next project should be...............
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JWdaughter
I like facts, quotes, nothing fraught with emotion or horror. I don't like scary movies and when I see the anger or fear mongering, I lose credulity. It's kind of a quirk. I'm gullible and i know my soft spots, and weakness. OTOH, humor and jokes and funny stories would amuse me in small doses. I can't abide exaggeration and that comes from coming out of a cult that tells the story they want us to hear. I don't give a crap about what you are trying to prove. Don't feed me crap and call it chocolate. I know how bad the org is, but I have seen flat out mis-statements, too. I know that JWs have live through horrific families that were JW. Too many are totally true and I can't bear a whole book of that.
That's my truth
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The fraud that is the WT member numbers
by Crazyguy inok i'm just thinking out load here so to speak.
but let say in the year 2000 the wt says they have 1 million publishers and at the end of the year they say they had 300,000 people get baptized so in the beginning of the year 2001 they show 1,300,000 publishers.
then in this new year they state another 300,000 get baptized but with 50,000 deaths and 50,000 disfellowshippings they stated at the end of year 2001 a total of 1,500,000 total members.
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JWdaughter
I think that's a high rate, not low. -
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Seeking Reinstatement
by Quendi inno, i'm not seeking to be reinstated so don't worry.
but i did want to raise a point in relation to this.
i know this was true in my case and i've seen it in others i have talked to about this.
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JWdaughter
Disassociated lady,
Welcome. Sounds like the Christian custom of welcoming the prodigal is not part of the org. It also seems the elder wants to get dirt, details of your dissolute life as an apostate. Even if you were just a soccer mom. They need to believe/teach we are all degenerates to sucker doubters to stay in.
Do you think it is truth now or do you want your folks back? Why are you seeking reinstatement?
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Seeking advice doctor & staff presentation
by azor inmy son is nearing completion of his 3-1/2 year chemo journey.
i have an appointment with his primary oncologist at the end of next month as an end of treatment exit meeting.
she and her team are leads at this particular hospital.
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JWdaughter
Just go straight to the director of that dept. They can incorporate as much as they feel is important into the regular training which is yearly for each employee (I've done contract work for medical services and yearly training on hippa is standard and I think, required). You could volunteer to make a video or something of what they could be alert for without it being directed just at JW or blood patients. There can be other kinds of abuses or invasions of privacy to be alert for (ex husbands, people trying to force themselves on patients regarding living wills/ wills or Medical POAs or stuff)
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Hawaii: Catholic Church settles 30 of 40 priest sex abuse lawsuits
by AndersonsInfo inhttp://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinewsnow/db_330510/contentdetail.htm?full=true&contentguid=l1jefdzq&pn=&ps=#display.
honolulu (hawaiinewsnow) - the roman catholic church has reached settlements in 30 lawsuits filed by people in hawaii who claim they were sexually abused by priests decades ago when they were children.. they are among 63 people who have made abuse allegations against priests in 40 lawsuits, according to legal documents obtained by hawaii news now.. some of the cases have been reported in the media, such as the 2012 lawsuit filed by mark pinkosh claiming two priests at st. anthony church in kailua sexually abused him.. pinkosh said when he told then-father joseph ferrario that another priest had raped him, ferrario told him to keep the incidents secret and then ferrario raped him.
ferrario, who is now deceased, went on to become the bishop of the catholic church in hawaii.
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JWdaughter
I hope they paid through the nose. I cannot BELIEVE what men allow to continue in the churches or any organization where abusers are KNOWN. Anyone involved in that kind of crime should pay, in whatever context that they supported it\or perpetrated it. The church memberships of all these churches are ultimately the ones that pay the money, but the children are paying with their innocence. It's all too sad. Hawaii is not that big a place and historically, the population was quite small (and actually still is, relatively).