jwfacts

Joined

• started 352 topics
• posted 8,707 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by jwfacts

• 
  332

  The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

  but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

  i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jwfacts

  I offer my apology if I came across as insulting.
  

  Thanks
• 
  332

  The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

  but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

  i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jwfacts

  
  Wonderment - Posters like jwfacts and some others want JWs to wither and die. I too believe the JW movement poses enough danger to its followers. That is why I stopped going to their meetings almost three decades ago. But to conclude that they can´t get anything right begs many a question.
  
  

  That's a bit insulting, an ad hominem dismissal of my opinions. I have provided reasons on why I feel the weight of evidence still does not support the Divine name in the New Testament at https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/jehovah-new-testament.php.

  As I mentioned, if evidence, as opposed to conjecture, appeared to support the Divine name in the New Testament, I would be the first to adjust my viewpoint. It just means Watchtower got lucky on that point, as they were that something interesting happened in 1914. If they had picked another year, there are plenty of opportunity to get equally lucky. For instance, if by chance they predicted 1918, then the Spanish Influenza would have been their proof that the last days started in that year. But that is all it is. They have plenty of doctrine that go against the norm, such as Jesus dying on a stake, so they are bound to get a couple right here or there.

  The topic of the Divine name in the New Testament is a lose/lose scenario for them. It has not been found, so why didn't Jehovah protect his name if it is so important for salvation? If it is dug up somewhere in a decade's time, why wasn't it found by 1919, when Jehovah chose his name sake? It is a bit late when Armageddon is already a century late, and Watchtower is already fading into irrelevance for all but the most uneducated and disenfranchised.
• 
  332

  The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

  but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

  i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jwfacts

  Pretty candid discussion in their main publication on the topic The Divine Name that will Endure Forever:
  

  There have only been a few occasions when they write candidly that there are no known fragments with the divine name.

  Look how evasive they are in Reasoning from the Scriptures, not at all mentioning it has never been found, even though that is what they are answering. It is like a game of Jeopardy, "here is the answer, guess what the real question was?"

  *** rs p. 278 New World Translation ***

  Why is the name Jehovah used in the Christian Greek Scriptures?
  

  It should be noted that the New World Translation is not the only Bible that does this. The divine name appears in translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures into Hebrew, in passages where quotations are made directly from the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. The Emphatic Diaglott (1864) contains the name Jehovah 18 times. Versions of the Christian Greek Scriptures in at least 38 other languages also use a vernacular form of the divine name.
  

  It is similar in the Watchtower 2008. The whole article is about why they added Jehovah to the New Testament, but not once do they say it has never been found. It rather introduces the topic with a more evasive comment:

  
  

  *** w08 8/1 p. 18 Should the Name Jehovah Appear in the New Testament? ***

  "Bible scholars acknowledge that God’s personal name appears in the Old Testament, or Hebrew Scriptures. However, many feel that it did not appear in the original Greek manuscripts of the so-called New Testament."

  JWs are not likely to remember or even noticed the candid quote from 3 decades ago, what JW's remember are the numerous times Watchtower claims to have rightly restored the word Jehovah to the Bible, without any information that it was done despite contradicting all known New Testament fragments.
  

  Credit is given to Jehovah protecting his word. You cannot have it both ways, did he protect it, or was the Divine name in the NT?

  *** it-1 p. 313 Bible ***
  All credit and thanksgiving for the Bible’s survival in view of such violent opposition is due Jehovah, the Preserver of his Word. This fact gives added meaning to the apostle Peter’s quotation from the prophet Isaiah: “All flesh is like grass, and all its glory is like a blossom of grass; the grass becomes withered, and the flower falls off, but the saying of Jehovah endures forever.”

  
  *** it-1 p. 1206 Inspiration ***
  God’s own purpose in preparing the Sacred Scriptures and the inspired declaration that “the saying of Jehovah endures forever” give assurance that Jehovah God has preserved the internal integrity of the Scriptures through the centuries.
• 
  332

  The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

  but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

  i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jwfacts

  Was that your segue into a discussion now on the Trinity?
• 
  332

  The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

  but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

  i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jwfacts

  All any JW need do is read the NWT appendix, among other publications.
  

  The Watchtower presentation is very difficult to follow, because they make it appear like the J manuscripts are original writings. Only the most astute JW would see through the obfuscation.

  The people for God's name at Acts 15 are Christians. The chapter is about Jesus. It seems you never got past the Watchtower Arian understanding of the NT. You are starting to sound like a JW apologist.
• 
  332

  The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

  but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

  i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jwfacts

  jwfacts I appreciate you believe the evidence is not strong enough. JWs and a number of non-JW scholars feel otherwise
  

  A number of scholars do, a number don't. I prefer the don't position, but if more solid evidence came to light I would have no problem updating my position. Either way, it would have zero relevance to what I think about Watchtower teachings.

  JWs ... feel otherwise
  

  99.9% of JWs don't feel otherwise, because they don't have an opinion. As a JW, I had no idea that Watchtower had added the word Jehovah to the NT, and I have never known any other JWs that were aware of this either. They assume it appears in the discovered NT manuscripts, in the same way that it appears in the OT manuscripts.

  JWs are not evidence based, they are faith based, and that faith rests solely in what the GB state. That is why I would like to know why you think this topic is important. Evidence of the divine name in the NT is no more important than evidence of Jerusalem's fall in 607. JWs believe it regardless of any evidence.
• 
  332

  The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

  but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

  i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jwfacts

  You misrepresent Howard, because he presents it as a hypothesis, whereas you say he "obviously" believed it. I already addressed this comment of yours. Your use of obviously is as hollow as Watchtower's use of clearly when they make a comment that has no support.

  Would almighty God have allowed this group of Christians to champion his name at this crucial time if they did not enjoy his blessing and support?
  

  The reason this can never be a big issue with JWs is because of the "elephant in the room." If using the name Jehovah is a requirement of salvation, Jehovah would not have allowed it to be removed. At the very least, in "this crucial time" of the last days, he would have allowed some NT fragments to be found with the Divine name. If over a century after the last days started there has not been a single fragment discovered, and nothing more than a handful of lone scholars hypothesising about this theory, it cannot be of any importance to Jehovah at all.
• 
  332

  The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

  but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

  i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jwfacts

  SBF - I'm still waiting on a number of answers from you.
• 
  332

  The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

  but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

  i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jwfacts

  And I think it's perfectly legitimate to point out that a number of scholars support JWs on the divine name in the NT
  

  Except that the general consensus of scholars, such as Watchtower'a beloved BeDuhn, do not support the Divine name in the NT. You have cherry picked the couple you agree with. It is always possible to find a scientist or scholar that goes against the majority, regardless of topic, be it Global warming, creationism and most conspiracy theories.

  In addition, you are misrepresenting Howard at least, who is not dogmatic that the Divine name was in the NT, but suggests it as a possibility.
• 
  332

  The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

  but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

  i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jwfacts

  But the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of Jehovah's name. I'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of JW events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

  They are only ahead of the curve if it eventually is proven that the divine name was used throughout the NT, until then they are not ahead of any curve. Neither is this a phenomenal success. JW growth is just a fraction of that of Pentecostals, whom number over 100 million. I thought you were joking with this introduction, but it seems you were serious.

  I would like to understand is why you think finding YWHW in a NT fragment would have any significant affect on JWs. I have presented why I think it would make little difference.