Posts by jwfacts

45

River flowing from the garden of Eden

by joey jojo in

hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

how did it work pre-flood?

jwfacts

I have had the principles of Noahs flood used by JW's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.

Depending on what outcome you are after, you could through Noah back at the person and say that any religion that teaches Noah's flood as literal is not the truth and hence you won't be going back. Then go over the endless reasons why it is impossible.

Genesis states that a river flowed from Eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the Tigris and the Euphrates.

Good point that there could be no mighty rivers without rain, something I had never thought of before. Further is that the Tigris and Euphrates existed according to Genesis before the flood, and afterward. A global flood, particularly the Watchtower one that completely changed the landscape and pushed Mount Everest 9km high, would have erased these rivers. The fact they remained after the flood shows the flood was just local, or figurative.

24

Crop circles

by Chook in

what causes them ?.

jwfacts

In Tasmania they are caused by wallabies high on Opium in the poppy fields.

13

ARC Case Study 54 - List all media reports here for future reference

by jwleaks in

http://www.smh.com.au/national/inside-the-jehovahs-witnesses-a-perfect-storm-for-abuse-20170309-guukur.html .

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/2017/03/10/jehovah-s-witnesses-to-face-abuse-inquiry.html .

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/03/10/03/31/uniting-church-witnesses-focus-of-inquiry .

jwfacts

O’Brien said hundreds were reported, although not by the organisation because it was left to the elders handling the case or the parents.

I am confused about this and wonder if this is exactly what O'Brien said.

That is what Terry said. I see this as trying to distance the organisation from any legal liability and put in on the shoulders of the elders. Further, whilst he makes it seems elders had been left with the responsibility to report, the reality is that they never did, but left it up to the parents; in fact, regularly discouraged parents from reporting as well.

95

Who can explain why the "Two Witness" rule is wrong, in the simplest term?

by DATA-DOG in

with all the legalese being tossed around, and the expert manipulation on the part of the wtbts, who can explain why the "two witness" is being perverted by the wtbts?

i don't care if you're a bible believer and want to approach this from a biblical standpoint, or if you simply use logic and reason.

how would you explain this subject to a j-dub, or even a non-dub?.

jwfacts

Deuteronomy 19:15
15 “No single witness may convict another for any error or any sin that he may commit. On the testimony of two witnesses or on the testimony of three witnesses the matter should be established.

Two Witnesses is a valid principle, but not required to be taken literally in every occasion, either in the Bible or Watchtower doctrine.

For instance, Watchtower does not force an adult rape victim to confront the rapist, even though Matthew 18 says that should be the case.

Matthew 18:15,16 "Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone.

Deuteronomy 22 shows that if a girl is raped and no one was there to help her, hence no two witnesses to the rape, her rapist could still be found guilty and put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:25-27 “If, however, the man happened to meet the engaged girl in the field and the man overpowered her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her is to die by himself, and you must do nothing to the girl. The girl has not committed a sin deserving of death. This case is the same as when a man attacks his fellow man and murders him. For he happened to meet her in the field, and the engaged girl screamed, but there was no one to rescue her."

Each of these Scriptures are directed at adults and not children.

Since there is leeway in how to apply this principle, then there is no doubt that when a child's safety is at stake, every precaution should be taken to protect the child from the first indication of danger.

27

Talked to a JW at a literature stand today

by nevermind in

guys,.

i need your help in trying to wrap my head around this strange experience i had today talking with a jw lady sitting at a literature table in a busy outdoor shopping center.. i'm a very shy person, but i always wanted to ask these jws at their literature stands questions to start them thinking about the validity of watchtower teaching.

i finally mustered my strength today to talk to this jw lady.

jwfacts

I don't think she was lying. What she is saying about 1914 and 1975 is how the Watchtower dishonestly describes their history. Higher education is not forbidden as a disfellowshipping sin, but more of a conscience matter, so some JW's do go. It is hard to pin down a JW when you know more than they do about their religion. Add cognitive dissonance and you understand why seemingly intelligent and logical people can belong to such cults.

33

The reality of "shunning" and character assasination highlighted at the Australian Royal Commission

by stuckinarut2 in

once again, the arc has brilliantly highlighted the reality that any witness who either fades or disassociates is subjected to active official shunning by the organization.. the "brothers" tried to state that it was the choice of the indiviual who steps away from the organization to shun them!

they actually tried to make it out to be the fault of the one who leaves!

then they tried to say that those who fade are not shunned!.

jwfacts

Has anyone done any research on the relationship between shunning and suicide inside the Society?

I have looked for research into suicide, including the more general topic of suicide by religious association, and have not been able to find anything. This is a topic that is a great importance and I would love to do research into it if there was a way to get access to the religious background of suicide victims.

33

The reality of "shunning" and character assasination highlighted at the Australian Royal Commission

by stuckinarut2 in

once again, the arc has brilliantly highlighted the reality that any witness who either fades or disassociates is subjected to active official shunning by the organization.. the "brothers" tried to state that it was the choice of the indiviual who steps away from the organization to shun them!

they actually tried to make it out to be the fault of the one who leaves!

then they tried to say that those who fade are not shunned!.

jwfacts

It got a bit bogged down arguing over disassociation, which is relatively rare, and resulted in the "they are shunning us" comment.

I spoke to Angus afterwards and explained that it is more likely that abuse victims get disfellowshipped because the emotional damage leads them to alcohol, drugs, and sexual behavior. He felt that is a good point they should have pursued, so I hope in future recommendations they highlight that is a very real plight, since victims will be shunned at the time they most need support.

47

What do you think the Australian Government will do?

by Richard Oliver in

i am not wanting to start a fight.

i just want to hear what people think.

honestly and realistically, what do you think the australian government will do, with watchtower, when they receive the full arc report?.

jwfacts

I am not sure the ARC can do anything to directly address Watchtower's failure to comply. Rather, they can put into law more clarity around how institutions are to respond.

Further, by uncovering the illegal manner in which Watchtower operates when not disclosing known cases of abuse, this will provide a basis for individuals to sue for compensation.

80

ARC Live Streaming site ?

by Gayle in

jw
friends

what is the exact live streaming site for the arc today in sydney?

i hope someone or more here will be watching and giving info/quips throughout the case.

also, will someone here or elsewhere be able to 'save' a video of this (all or part).

jwfacts

The worst, though, the very very worst of the whole performance was when O'Brien pulled out his silver sword and gave a witness to the room. And to everyone watching.

That was amazing. There were 5 very competent judges sitting there, and O'Brien read out the following to show why Watchtower does not feel any obligation to follow the ARC advice.

Isaiah 33:22 For Jehovah is our Judge,+Jehovah is our Lawgiver,+Jehovah is our King;+He is the One who will save us.+

Seriously Terry, what were you thinking? It was so cringe-worthy.

80

ARC Live Streaming site ?

by Gayle in

jw
friends

what is the exact live streaming site for the arc today in sydney?

i hope someone or more here will be watching and giving info/quips throughout the case.

also, will someone here or elsewhere be able to 'save' a video of this (all or part).

jwfacts

I told the Uniting Church they are fortunate to be following on from the JWs, as they could never come across as poorly.