Posts by 9thWonder

97

Was Jesus Created?

by 9thWonder in

was jesus created?

this question came out of a discussion i was having with a preacher of a no-denominational church.

he was trying to convince me of the truth of the trinity doctrine.

9thWonder

Thanks everyone for your enlightenment on this subject! I really appreciate the information!

LittleToe,

You have been most helpful. I am not an athiest and I do believe in the three entities of the trinity doctrine. I do believe that the father is greater than the son. I do believe salvation is through the son. I do believe that the holy spirit is a "helper." I do believe that they are ONE, just as a husband and wife are one. However, I don't care to identify their oneness as the "trinity." I guess it makes me feel icky! (I wonder why). I am not a philosopher and that whole concept is confusing to me, and I the way I deal with things that are unexplanable or are not explicitly stated in the bible is to ask questions (which I wasn't allowed to do as a JW) and to do research. Here is one site that I found.

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/whatisthetrinity.htm

But, the burning question for me was now whether or the bible states that Jesus was born, inferior to the Father or resurrected...I needed to know if the bible explicitly states (not implies) that he was created. The answer is "no", correct?

Thanks LT!

64

Inappropriate "shepherding" calls.

by avishai in

jw
friends

how many have recieved calls by the elders that were under the guise of "shepherding", but somehow inappropriate, i.e, you were a woman alone with only one elder showing up, or you felt physically intimidated by both.

or say they show up at like, 10:30 at night for a shepherding call.

and you say "hey, i appreciate the visit but please call first!

9thWonder

I was baptized when I was 15 and never got a sheparding call ever. After I was disfellowshipped, I thought that they were supposed to call on me once a year (although I could be very wrong about that) and it's been almost 4 years and counting...and not a peep. Not that I'm complaining, but they use that "timing" rule when it's convenient for them. When I submitted my letter 3 months shy of being df'd for one year, they told me that not enough time had passed. Whatever!

97

Was Jesus Created?

by 9thWonder in

was jesus created?

this question came out of a discussion i was having with a preacher of a no-denominational church.

he was trying to convince me of the truth of the trinity doctrine.

9thWonder

Was Jesus created? This question came out of a discussion I was having with a preacher of a no-denominational church. He was trying to convince me of the truth of the trinity doctrine. We were discussing other things and I was getting a little agitated listening to him rip apart many of the beliefs that I upheld and taught to others for years. So when he finally got to the trinity doctrine, he started with the father, then the holy spirit, then as he got on the son...the first words out of his mouth was that Jesus was not created. I argued that he was, so he asked me to show him in the bible where it says that Jesus was created. I didn't have to search, I knew that it wasn't there. That was the beginning of the real crumbling of my faith. He wouldn't go any further because he said that he saw that I wasn't ready to hear anymore, so I let him go and I promised to call him back to discuss it further. That was over 3 months ago.

My question to you all is does anyone have any proof that Jesus was created. I know that the New World Translation version of the bible says that Jesus is "the only begotten son of GOD" but is that the only evidence that the JWs have to support this belief?

What about other JW beliefs that don't have scriptural support??????

44

Do You Hide The Fact That You Were/Are A Jehovah's Witness?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i don't.

it reminds me every day of what i was was and not what i can enjoy.

9thWonder

What I haven't talked much about yet is that I've left. Everyone that I know here knows me as a JW and while I didn't try to convert anybody or even preach to them outside of saying why I didn't participate in certain things, the fact that I didn't do birthdays, baptisms, weddings, holiday parties and thought I had the really true truth makes me feel like a Grade A dope now.

I am in the same boat, but WORSE...I was already df'd when I started this job over 4 years ago and I was still claiming to be a JW (had hopes that someday I would again be a JW). Now that I have no intentions of going back, I am definitely not planning on telling anyone that I am no longer a JW.

18

He stood for the National Athem and is still alive!

by kls in

.

this past sunday the husband and i went to the car races at near by speed way to watch the races and the fireworks that is put on there everyyear on the 4th of july ,usually he heads to the bathroom is his excuse not to stand for the athem but this time when it was announced for all to stand he looked at me as i was rising and said to me " do you want me to stand ,and i said yes ,you are only standing so what is the big deal".

i was so happy just for the fact that he stood there against the laws of the wt and folks,he wasn't struck down dead and no demons took over he body as of yet.. i really don't care if he believes in his country or not but i want him to feel it for his own reasons and not because the wt told him that it is naughty and against their laws, so for me i hope this is some kind of break through..

9thWonder

OK Blondie ,how do you find all these things so fast ? Does your computer have wt speed find . Mann Blondie you never fail to amaze me

I was just thinking the same thing. She must have every Watchtower bound volume on CD.

24

Please help me edit for correct facts. I want no misrepresentation here.

by AK - Jeff in

this is a draft of a letter to a dear friend - what do you think?.

dear xxxxx - .

i just spent two weeks writing, editing, and writing again, what i intended as a brief letter to you regarding our conversation two weeks past.

9thWonder

The 607 issue and, of course, mis-treatment of victims of sexual abuse were huge factors for me.

For me, it was learning the origin of the religion. Plain and simple if this was God's "chosen" organization, wouldn't they have gotten it right the first time. Rutherford, the blood issue, military service, 1914, voting, Christmas, birthdays are all reasons for expulsion today. God knows what he expects of his people...he would not make this is a guessing game...many people have lost their faith and their lives because of the guessing (or outright lies).

63

PLEASE REPLY ASAP!!! Disfellowshiped without a meeting with elders?!?!?!

by chok in

.

i was trying to fade, and thought i had done so successfully for the past 18months.. i have just received a call from my dad saying it will be announced tomorrow that i have been disfellowshipped... can they do this???.

chok.

9thWonder

One of the elders on my committee asked very lewd questions...wanting details and descriptions of who, what, when where and how. Now, he is disfellowshipped...has left the wife of his youth and I know this because I saw him 6 months ago dining at a restaurant sitting beside a woman in a booth (notice I said beside and not across). I did a double-take and shook my head a couple of times to be sure it wasn't the alcohol. The next day I called my brother and got confirmation.

63

PLEASE REPLY ASAP!!! Disfellowshiped without a meeting with elders?!?!?!

by chok in

.

i was trying to fade, and thought i had done so successfully for the past 18months.. i have just received a call from my dad saying it will be announced tomorrow that i have been disfellowshipped... can they do this???.

chok.

9thWonder

Not only are they supposed to meet with you...they are supposed to pray and deliberate and give you spiritual counsel. My committee decided not to reinstate me without meeting with me...I was already disfellowshiped, but they read my letter and gave me a courtesy call and a 15 minute courtesy meeting and without leaving the room to discuss the situation they had already made up their mind that they weren't going to consider reinstatement because of my past history and because it had only been a little over 6 months. The 2nd time I went before them, they pulled out the OM book and read a few lines that are supposed to be the guidelines for reinstatement. I paraphrase: the individual should be disfellowshiped for several months, to a year, to several years. I kept arguing that it had been several months and they kept stressing several years, so they got their wish.

26

Do you have any 'holdover' beliefs?

by AllAlongTheWatchtower in

after reading and responding recently to a post about eating pork and clean and unclean meats, and also a few about newfound freedoms and pleasures that some enjoy now that they are out of the jws, i got to wondering if there is anything like that on the flip side of the coin.

in other words, despite you leaving the wts, is there anything you still believe that they taught, even though you left or were forced out, and no longer believe the rest of the jw doctrine?.

i was never a jw, but i was raised in a rather similar group called the worldwide church of god, many of the controls, strictures, and abuses that i saw as a child there, i see posted about here-though they are different, they are also the same.

9thWonder

I have been df'd for over 4 years now, and I haven't celebrated a birthday yet (well, not really), but this year I am going to force myself to celebrate my son's 8th birthday with a big party that will cost me a lot of money. I give gifts on Xmas to my significant other, but I don't think I'll really get into that unless I get married and have more children and my husband insists. I can't see myself going to the polls to vote (for reasons other than what was taught as a JW). Doubt that I'll ever celebrate Easter or Halloween, but I do want to celebrate Mother's Day and if I ever get married and have another child, I'll celebrate Father's Day as well. I started attending church with my boyfriend, but the first time I went I thought I was going to vomit because I had the creepy feeling that everyone in that building was evil and ignorant. I haven't been searching very long...probably just about a month now, but I really want to feel comfortable and I want my son to feel comfortable about celebrating his birthday this year. So I'm kicking my research into high gear. Thank goodness for the internet because I would have never gone to the library or the bookstore to find any of this information.

57

Help! I am having feelings of doubt.

by cab1000 in

jw
friends

when jesus "selected" the faithful and discreet slave!.

"faithful and discreet slave" and therefore that the society was not.

the witnesses as "the faithful and discreet slave".. .

9thWonder

The Society had been wrong about the cross and Christmas? That's the first I'd heard that one.