Thanks Nathan. Do you know the date of this booklet ?
Charles
chasson
JoinedPosts by chasson
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Very Rare! "MILITARISM" by JFR
by Nathan Natas insometime beween august of 1914 and october of 1916, the highly esteemed "judge" joseph franklin rutherford wrote a little tract with the title,.
"militarism - how will it be forever destroyed?
a masterly discourse by j. f. rutherford of the new york city bar".
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chasson
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Anyone know of specific subliminal pictures?
by cognac inthe only one i know about is the big jesus in the revelation book.. know of any specific other ones?
i want to show hubby....
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Consolation on Demand
by chasson ini have a lot of consolation magazines that i could scan.. if you want a particular issue for research, tell me and i will scan it, and you can tell to the board more what are your research, so everybody will have more insight.. .
here is one of this magazine concerning the madison square garden incident.
this incident is connected with the olyn moyle's trial and it is interessant to see the vision of rutherford concerning this.. he tried in this magazine to excuse the usher, because what he said on stage was "the word of jehovah", so nobody must stop the "spreading of the word of god".
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New York Times June 22, 1918
by Nathan Natas in================ text version below ==========.
20 years in prison for 7 russellites.
judge howe scores men who.
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chasson
You are right Leolaia concerning the Insberg's letter (ironically Rutherford said just before that Insberg have a free choice on the non-combattant service : "As to whether you will take non-combattant service or refuse must be determined by yourself", and at the end of the letter he let him only two different choice ( one good, refuse the incorporation, even the non-combattant service, or go to war and not be a good Christian) without the possibility to choose the non-combattant service), and i have still made the same conclusion as you in my article in French, nevertheless it was only a communication by mail and not a general explanation in an article of the Watchtower. So, in the transcript of the 1917's court, you can find some evocation of other Bible's Student who have not chosen the only two choice of Rutherford, surely because they were not informed of the position of Rutherford, or because Rutherford or other watchtower's official were not so precise as Rutherford was in the Ingsberg's letter.
It seems that other evocation, i have not the transcript here, shows that Rutherford hoped that the non-combattant service in America could be permissive, and let young bible student worked as fireman or other charitable works, not in connection with the war effort, as the non-combattant service in United Kingdom. (The decision of Wilson in March 1918 is here: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9C05E0D6113FE433A25751C2A9659C946996D6CF )
The ambiguities of the Rutherford's thoughts on the matter are clearly perceptible in the Insberg's letter, at the beginning Insberg has the choice of the non-combattant service, and it is an incorporation in the Army, at the end, he has no choice, and must be shot or jailed for his christian attitude. -
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New York Times June 22, 1918
by Nathan Natas in================ text version below ==========.
20 years in prison for 7 russellites.
judge howe scores men who.
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chasson
To answer to your argument, i ask myself if the non-combattant service in england and USA was not considered as being incorporated in the army ?
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New York Times June 22, 1918
by Nathan Natas in================ text version below ==========.
20 years in prison for 7 russellites.
judge howe scores men who.
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chasson
Well, it is more complicated.
Rutherford has not clearly said no to alternative service at this time, he has claimed that because the president Wilson has not explained clearly what he means by "alternative service", a bible student could refuse it (and not should refuse it). -
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New York Times June 22, 1918
by Nathan Natas in================ text version below ==========.
20 years in prison for 7 russellites.
judge howe scores men who.
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chasson
For me this is Russell who has changed his mind in 1916, in response of the problem of young bible student in england, for example, i have cited several Watchtower in this article:
http://www.tj-encyclopedie.org/Service_militaire
Here are the quotes for the slowly change of mind of Russell:
"# Before the war we recommended to the brethren that in the event of hostilities they should, so far as possible, if drafted, request positions in the hospital service or in the supplies department, where they could serve the Government efficiently; whereas, if they were ordered to the firing line, they would not be obliged to shoot to kill. We have reasons for believing that these suggestions are being followed and that meantime the brethren are using the opportunities for proclaiming to their companions in military service the blessed message of the soon-to-be-established kingdom of Christ, for the blessing of all the families of the earth" Tour de Garde 1er Avril 1915
# ^ "Some have inquired in respect to the situation in connection with the manufacture of war ammunition. Our advice Io them has been to avoid engaging in such work as this,except as the money would be absolutely necessary to provide food and shelter for their families and themselves. And then, taking such a situation merely as a matter of neeesqly, we recommend that it be vacated as speedily as somcthing else can lie found, no matter how poor the pay, if it will provide life’s necessities" Tour de Garde du 1er Septembre 1915
# ^ In SCRIPTURES STUDIES, Vol. VI., we have set forth a suggestion that the followers of Christ seek by every proper means to avoid participation in war. We there suggested the possibility, but that in the event of conscription the Lord’s followers should use all their influence toward obtaining positions in the Hospital Corps or in the Provision Department of the army, rather than in the actual warfare. We suggested further that if it were impossible to avoid going into the trenches, it would still not be necessary to violate the divine requirement, "Thou shalt do no murder." We have been wondering since if the course we have suggested is the best one. We wonder if such a course would not mean compromise. We reflect that to become a member of the army and to put on the military uniform implies the duties and obligations of a soldier as recognized and accepted. A protest made to an officer would be insignificant--the public in general would not know of it. Would not the Christian be really out of his place under such conditions?" Tour de Garde du 1er Septembre 1915
# ^ "But," some one replies, "If one were to refuse the uniform and the military service tie would be shot." We reply that if the presentation were properly made there might be some kind of exoneration; but if not, would it be any worse to be shot because of loyalty to the Prince of Peace and refusal to disobey his order than to be shot while under the banner of these earthly kings and apparently giving them support and, in appearance at least, compromising the teachings of our heavenly King? Of the two deaths we would prefer the former--prefer to die because of faithfulness to our heavenly King. Certainly the one dying for his loyalty to the principles of the Lord’s teachings would accomplish far more by his death than would the one dying in the trenches. We cannot tell how great the influence would be for peace, for righteousness, for God, if a few hundred of the Lord’s faithful were to follow the course of Shadraeh, Meshach and Abednego, and refuse to bow down to the god of war" Tour de Garde 1er Septembre 1914
# ^ "We are not urging this course. We are merely suggesting it. The responsibility fully belongs with each individual. We are discharging our responsability toward many Bible students who are inquiring of us respecting the mind of the Lord on this subject" Tour de Garde 1er Septembre 1915 (i have deleted quotes concerning the case of England) -
41
New York Times June 22, 1918
by Nathan Natas in================ text version below ==========.
20 years in prison for 7 russellites.
judge howe scores men who.
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chasson
In the same time read the testimony of Van Amburgh in the pre-trial of 1918:
http://www.tj-encyclopedie.org/Image:Trial-1918-707.jpg
http://www.tj-encyclopedie.org/Image:Trial-1918-709.jpg
A major contradiction.
Bye
Charles -
41
New York Times June 22, 1918
by Nathan Natas in================ text version below ==========.
20 years in prison for 7 russellites.
judge howe scores men who.
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chasson
If you want to read the letter of Rutherford advising to a young bible student to be shot, go here:
http://www.tj-encyclopedie.org/Image:Trial-1918-1222-ruth-1.jpg
http://www.tj-encyclopedie.org/Image:Trial-1918-1222-ruth-2.jpg
Bye
Charles
