ThomasCovenant
JoinedPosts by ThomasCovenant
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20
Rape can be fornication myth in the 1990s?
by Chemical Emotions inalthough it was wrong for the wtbts to claim this i the '60s, '70s, and '80s, i'm pretty sure (correct me if i'm wrong) that most "experts" believed it too.
idk.. but did most people believe, especially experts -in the 1990s- that if you don't scream or fight when threatend with rape, you have committed fornication?
the wts did.
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81
What Actually Made You Leave The Organization?
by minimus inmany of us needed time to get away from this religion.
i took the course of fading and it's worked pretty well for me.
after i saw sooooo many silly rules being enforced, i needed to get out!.
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ThomasCovenant
Nickolas,
You also said,
''There must be many Jehovah's Witnesses among the 7 million who know in their hearts that the Watchtower is crap but who just don't want to think about it, or are forced to think about it only when the really ugly stuff gets personal.''
As awful as it may seem, the life threatening situation with the blood is what forced me to face up to reality. Be a man, if you will.
For that, at least, I am grateful.
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81
What Actually Made You Leave The Organization?
by minimus inmany of us needed time to get away from this religion.
i took the course of fading and it's worked pretty well for me.
after i saw sooooo many silly rules being enforced, i needed to get out!.
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ThomasCovenant
Nickolas,
We had both been ''brought up in the truth''. A lot of both families were in too. (Thankfully that has now changed, now it is a minority still in) I hadn't believed it for years and my wife wasn't interested enough to think about it. But we felt we were just stuck in it. It was our ''way of life''.
We, like almost all Witnesses I suppose, knew of the blood doctrine but just hoped it would never happen to us.
Come the time of the scheduled operation my wife expressed her wishes to the hospital along the lines of 'I'd rather not have blood, but if I really have to, I will. Please try your best not to administer it'.
The operation went ok and all was well, and we both thought there was no need to worry, (it's probably called putting your head in the sand) until the following night when unexpected major bleeding occured. I was telephoned to rush to the hospital and was just in time to see her being wheeled down to the operating theatre. She was semi conscious by now, but said to me that she didn't want to die and had signed to accept blood.
I could tell that the hospital staff were worried that I was going to try to persuade her otherwise, but I told them 'I'm not a Witness'. I could sense their relief that a maniac wasn't in front of them.
For the next few hours, waiting, I didn't know whether she would make it or not, her haemoglobin levels were already very low before the operation.
When she came round, she expressed that she realized she would rather live for her family now, than for a bloke in the sky who may or may not be there.
No blood was adminstered as the hospital did their best to respect her 'religion'.
Interestingly, on a later checkup, one of the nurses did try to reassure her along the lines of , 'don't worry you're not the only Witness who has done this'. Not in those words exactly but we got the picture.
You asked, ''Did everything just happen so fast that you found yourselves in a situation without having had the time to think about how stupid you were both being?''
Yes, we were both absolutely stupid effin idiots for letting it get that far. It happened 30 years too fast.
I too find it fascinating and incredible that I stayed in for so long.
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81
What Actually Made You Leave The Organization?
by minimus inmany of us needed time to get away from this religion.
i took the course of fading and it's worked pretty well for me.
after i saw sooooo many silly rules being enforced, i needed to get out!.
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ThomasCovenant
Never truly believed it but went along with it for 30 years because it's what we did and knew. They certainly weren't all bad and many good times were had.
What actually made me leave?
Waiting in the hospital at 2am to hear from the medical staff whether my wife was alive or not, following her emergency operation, blood related.
Preparing myself for the worst, I wondered what the hell I was going to tell my children, trying to explain to them that yes, their mother had died over peer pressure to conform to a ludicrous belief system that neither of us believed in, but just went along with.
I'm glad to say she lived, but I was never the same again. I thought before, that the good outweighed the bad, but now I believe differently.
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16
Rainbows
by Aussie Oz inwe had the most fantastic rainbow here yesterday, probably the most solid colored one i have ever seen.
it reminded me that jehovah would never again flood the earth... not!.
i remarked to my daughter that the rainbow reminded me that the genesis account was a myth like the aboriginal dream times...rainbows are science, sunlight, rain mist/drops and refracted light.. i said, after it had rained and the sun came out, no matter whether 'god' was involved or not, there was going to be a rainbow.
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ThomasCovenant
Yes they always remind me that God isn't going to kill everyone one with an earth wide flood again.
Next time he's going to try it out with fire and earthquakes. Maybe some lightning too.
That should be better.
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Atheist Fascism
by Band on the Run init is so draining for me to constantly read threads by atheists that assert that those of who are uncertain or have faith have irrational minds.
god can not be proven or unproven.
the harping is tedious.
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ThomasCovenant
Tuber said,
The only thing that unites us [atheists] is a lack of belief, and for the majority of us, that lack of belief is caused by science, and a respect for the scientific method.
To clarify my position, I don't have a lack of belief. I believe.
I believe there is no god.
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I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses
by PenelopePaige inhi- i just wanted to say that i have been checking the website out for a few weeks and have read some horror stories and some sad ones.
but i have been studying with witnessess for about six months and can't help but feel that they're completely sincere and maybe even, the true religion.
i love the watchtower and awake and to me, none of that seems crazy.
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ThomasCovenant
Hello Penelope Paige,
Paulapollos said
-If you attempt to study the history of the organisation with outside sources, then come to a different conclusion to the organisation (about itself), you are not permitted to share that info with other JW's, because you may stumble them.
- If you disagree with something written in the WT, and repeatedly discuss it with your JW friends, you are likely to recieve a visit from the elders.
- If you read the Bible, and come up with a different understanding of what you read to the JW interpretation, you are not permitted to share that with others. If you do, you will recieve a visit from the elders.
- If you share your different understanding with JW's, you are likely to be branded an apostate, thrown out, and your friendships with other members are severed - they are not permitted to speak to you.
Although every Witness is aware of the above, albeit subconciously, they still stay. I know I did. I was brainwashed.
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Would the world be a better place without any religion?
by ThomasCovenant ini like to think so.. although much good can come from religious belief, i feel that the bad out weighs the good.
and therefore i would rather see it all gone.. if tomorrow, all people with any belief in any religion were removed from earth to meet their maker in the afterlife they so much want, it may be for the best.. how much better atheists would get on would be interesting to see.
shirley atheists couldn't make a worse job than religionists have..
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ThomasCovenant
I like to think so.
Although much good can come from religious belief, I feel that the bad out weighs the good. And therefore I would rather see it all gone.
If tomorrow, all people with any belief in any religion were removed from earth to meet their maker in the afterlife they so much want, it may be for the best.
How much better atheists would get on would be interesting to see.
Shirley atheists couldn't make a worse job than religionists have.
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41
Watchtower and Pets a Picture
by Marvin Shilmer inwatchtower and pets a picture.
watchtower and pets, an illustration that caused lots of heartache: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/07/watchtower-pets.html.
marvin shilmer.
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ThomasCovenant
Watchtower 15th March 1952, page 168,
17 Animals will be controlled and peace established between them and men. Now we enjoy having cats and dogs for pets, and in some parks get an added thrill when a squirrel or pigeon eats out of our hand, and as we walk through the zoos we may even have a desire to fondle the furry mane of the lion or stroke the striped pelt of the tiger. But we wisely quench this natural urge, for we know that while we would be running our hands through its fur it might be running its teeth through our hands. The wild animals mistrust us as much as we mistrust them. However, in the new world man will exercise dominion, not through fear and dread, or by hunters or zoo keepers or circus trainers, but through such perfect mutual trust that even a little child can lead the wildest of beasts. Even the lion will turn vegetarian then.-Isa. 11:6-9; Hos. 2:18.
18 Also carried to complete fulfillment then will be the mandate to fill the earth with a righteous human race. What a pleasure this will be in paradise earth, with all the animals for pets -
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Watchtower and Pets a Picture
by Marvin Shilmer inwatchtower and pets a picture.
watchtower and pets, an illustration that caused lots of heartache: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/07/watchtower-pets.html.
marvin shilmer.
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ThomasCovenant
Watchtower 1st Sept 1955, page 517,
''In Western lands, such as the United States, animal worship takes the form of sentimentalizing over pets.''
''And there are other worshipers of animals. Those who feel there must be a place in heaven for pets; those who are so concerned with the plight of lower animals that they are oblivious of God's requirements or the miseries of their fellow men. Included among such are many among the vegetarians and antivivisectionists. Their zeal resembles that of the ancient Egyptians.''