Posts by ThomasCovenant

33

Fading ... Do You Owe Witness Friends An Explanation?

by What Now? in

i'm curious about what you all think on this subject.

when my husband and i became irregular about a year ago, and then inactive around 5 months ago, i felt that it would be hypocritical to take advantage of the social side of the witness community if we weren`t going to meetings or in service.

we stopped entertaining (which we did quite regularly - theme parties, card parties, movie nights, big turkey dinners, breakfasts on holidays etc), and i slowly stopped accepting invitations for get togethers, playdates etc.

ThomasCovenant

I didn't fade.

I explained to the two couples that we were close to that I didn't believe a word of it anymore, after my research, and that our relationship would no longer be able to continue, due to the fact that they would continue being Witnesses and I wouldn't.

I suppose I was the one to cut them off and out of my life.

The one couple suggested I was suffering from depression and that was the last we had to do with them.

The other couple said they wouldn't judge us but I knew it wouldn't work.

That was about 9 years ago.

I feel honest about myself.

I saw them both at a funeral recently at the Kingdom Hall and we all chatted and laughed as normal.

Probably it could be said my friendship was just as conditional as theirs.

My friendship was based on them being honest and principled.

When I told my parents that I was leaving I explained to them that all my former friendships with Witnesses would have to end.

My parents said ''don't be silly'', but I told them I wouldn't respect them if they did carry on with me, as they would be going against the very belief system that they allegedly followed.

To be honest with myself, then 'Yes' I did feel I owed an explanation to my friends to explain why I was no longer going to continue with them.

32

Need article about looking to the slave rather than Christ for salvation

by Bonnie_Clyde in

jw
friends

i thought there was something recently.

clyde says he needs it soon to show a friend, and i don't know where to find it.

can i get it off jw.org ?

ThomasCovenant

If I, Thomas Covenant, wrote,

''We need to obey Thomas Covenant to have God's approval''

isn't it the same as ''You need to obey me to have God's approval''?

32

Need article about looking to the slave rather than Christ for salvation

by Bonnie_Clyde in

jw
friends

i thought there was something recently.

clyde says he needs it soon to show a friend, and i don't know where to find it.

can i get it off jw.org ?

ThomasCovenant

The Searcher,

It's the correct one, the Simplified English Edition. Its a subheading, the actual quote is,

''We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah's approval''

But bearing in mind it's the faithful and discreet slave, the governing body, who are saying this to the flock

I've made it into an Even More Simpified English E dition.

''You need to obey us to have Jehovah's approval''.

32

Need article about looking to the slave rather than Christ for salvation

by Bonnie_Clyde in

jw
friends

i thought there was something recently.

clyde says he needs it soon to show a friend, and i don't know where to find it.

can i get it off jw.org ?

ThomasCovenant

Don't forget the eight members of the governing body are talking to the rest of the witnesses. Ditch the 3rd person shite.

The Watchtower of July 15, 2013 said "It is vital that you recognize us. Your spiritual health and your relationship with God depend on this channel." (page 20)"

" You need to obey us to have Jehovah's approval." Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.24 Simplified English Edition

"The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following our lead, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ." Watchtower 2010 Sep 15 p.23

"It is vital that you appreciate this fact and respond to our directions as you would to the voice of God, because it is His provision." Watchtower 1957 Jun 15 p.370

"By submitting to us , you also show your subjection to the Master, Jesus Christ."(w02 10/1 p. 19)

Therefore, when you loyally submit to our direction , you are submitting to Christ, the slave's Master. - (W 4-1-2007, p.24. par.12)

140

Why So Many Young People Are Leaving The Watchtower

by Jeremy C in

i have been giving a lot of thought to the young people who are leaving the watchtower organization in recent years.

last night, i was reading the thread posted by jwfacts a while back in which he provided some statistics and graphs showing the rapidly declining growth in the watchtower.

one factor that was discussed at length was the high number of young people who do not stay in the organization.

ThomasCovenant

BTTT

12

NY Times article: On Gay priests, Pope Francis asks, "Who am I to judge?"

by adamah in

from ny times:.

rome for generations, homosexuality has largely been a taboo topic for the vatican, ignored altogether or treated as an intrinsic moral evil, in the words of the previous pope.

in that context, brief remarks by pope francis suggesting that he would not judge priests for their sexual orientation, made aboard the papal airplane on the way back from his first foreign trip, to brazil, resonated through the church.

ThomasCovenant

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/who-am-i-to-judge-the-pope-says-gay-man-2013073077345

A GAY man has said that although Pope-ish acts are bad, a Pope-ish orientation is not.

In what his friends claim is a softening of his stance on Popes, 38-year-old gay chef Tom Logan claimed he was fine with them as long as they didn't do any Pope stuff.

He said: "If a person is a Pope but has good will, who am I to judge them?

"And it would be even more ridiculous if I were to say that then continue by telling Popes how to behave.

"After all I am just a bloke, albeit a bloke with a funny hat - a chef's hat. Actually that does make me a bit special, so listen up."

Speaking from behind the vaguely pulpit-like oven at the restaurant where he works, Logan said: "It's fine for a man to have Pope-ish feelings, as long as he does not act on them in any way. Or lobby for religion.

"You could argue that telling a Pope not to do any Pope behaviour, like taking mass or dressing up in robes, is essentially the same as telling them not to be a Pope. But it is not.

"Don't even try to argue with me, or I will wave this spoon in an intimidating manner."

Logan's colleague Emma Bradford said: "Because Tom's very sexually frustrated he's gone a bit funny and developed a weird belief system. Basically he thinks he is a spokesman for this invisible being called 'Gorgonzola'.

"He doesn't realise that for a religion to be proper it has to have been made up a long time ago."

172

Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

ThomasCovenant

1. The perpetrator was expelled (kicked out) from the congregation. (Most probably eventually)

2. The congregation supplied additional evidence that would otherwise not exist, evidence that aided the court in reaching a guilty verdict. (Eventually)

172

Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

ThomasCovenant

I know nothing about this case except what is being reported, but here's my comment.

'Their barrister Richard Daniels said the men had a "duty to God" not to breach confidence.

He added: "Privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence." '

Commendable, (debatable) if you believe that is what you are doing, brothers. If so how come you then changed your mind at the last minute?

''Despite the judge's ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.''

4