Posts by ThomasCovenant

22

Are JWs creationists?

by Jeffro in

if you believe what is officially stated on the jw website, jws are not creationists.

.

the fact that the exact jw belief is in fact specifically called "day-age creationism" seems to have alluded them.

ThomasCovenant

''Yeah, I guess '7 literal days for creation' is ridiculous, but 'humans have only existed for 6000 years' is 'true science'. ''

And all living things were vegetarian less than 4,500 years ago is also true science.

3

Does Bethel etc close on public/bank holidays?

by ThomasCovenant in

does printing and administrative work carry on as normal throughout the year without regard to christmas, new year, public and bank holidays in the various bethel premises throughout the world?.

it is a bank holiday tomorrow in most of the uk so will london bethel be working as normal?

.

ThomasCovenant

Does printing and administ rative work carry on as normal throughout the year without regard to Christmas, New Year, public and bank holidays in the various Bethel premises throughout the world?

It is a Bank Holiday tomorrow in most of the UK so will London Bethel be working as normal?

23

Jehovah's Witness whose wife died after refusing blood transfusion is jailed for 13 years over child sex abuse covered up by religion's elders

by ThomasCovenant in

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2400938/jehovahs-witness-wife-died-refusing-blood-transfusion-jailed-13-years-child-sex-abuse-covered-religions-elders.html .

a jehovah's witness who sexually abused a child and then had his wrongdoing covered up by the church has been jailed for 13 years.. gordon leighton, 53, admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted with the allegations by church elders at washington, tyne and wear.. the elders knew about the 53-year-old's admissions for three years but refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation, and said what they had heard was confidential.. leighton hit the headlines in the 1990s when his wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds.judge penny moreland said that he had subjected his victim to 'untold damage' as she sentenced him at newcastle crown court today.. the judge said: 'you manipulated her with a combination of affection and attention and violence and threats.

'the defendant was found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault after a trial.

ThomasCovenant

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2400938/Jehovahs-Witness-wife-died-refusing-blood-transfusion-jailed-13-years-child-sex-abuse-covered-religions-elders.html

A Jehovah's Witness who sexually abused a child and then had his wrongdoing covered up by the church has been jailed for 13 years.

Gordon Leighton, 53, admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted with the allegations by church elders at Washington, Tyne and Wear.

The elders knew about the 53-year-old's admissions for three years but refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation, and said what they had heard was confidential.

Leighton hit the headlines in the 1990s when his wife Yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds.Judge Penny Moreland said that he had subjected his victim to 'untold damage' as she sentenced him at Newcastle Crown Court today.

The judge said: 'You manipulated her with a combination of affection and attention and violence and threats.'The defendant was found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault after a trial. Prosecutor Katherine Dunn told the court it was in 2009 the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence about what Leighton had done to her.

The court heard that at a special meeting at Lambton Kingdom Hall aimed at 'keeping the congregation clean', Leighton 'admitted sexual abuse' and made excuses for his vile behaviour.

Miss Dunn said: 'The elders conducted their own investigation. A meeting was arranged and the defendant was confronted with the allegations.'

After initially denying the allegations he broke down and admitted sexually abusing the complainant. The court heard Leighton, of Washington, refused to answer any questions when interviewed by detectives and claimed his confession at the meeting was limited to reading pornographic material.

Throughout the six-day trial Leighton, a Jehovah's Witness ministerial servant, denied all the allegations against him and denied he had confessed to the elders.

Leighton, who has since been expelled from the church, had also denied unrelated assault charges of child cruelty, grievous bodily harm and actual bodily harm, which he was found guilty of.

Judge Penny Moreland gave Leighton 13 years behind bars when he appeared before Newcastle Crown Court today

Throughout the criminal investigation, church elders Simon Preyser, Harry Logan and David Scott refused to make statements about Leighton's confession, keeping their stance when the case was brought before Newcastle Crown Court.

Each was then issued a witness summons which they launched a court battle against, but they were ordered to testify by Judge Penny Moreland after months of legal wrangling.

Their barrister Richard Daniels said the men had a 'duty to God' not to breach confidence.

Leighton was also given a sexual offences prevention order and was ordered to sign the sex offenders' register for life.

35

How would YOU explain cognitive disonance to a Jehovahs Witness on your doorstep

by smiddy in

seriously , in plain simple language that the most thick headed jw would understand.. and what examples would you use.. smiddy.

ThomasCovenant

Oubliette said,

''Look carefully at the picture below and answer: How many generations do you see?

Say the first thing that comes to mind. ''

Just going off the point abit but remember that if that picture was taken in 1914 then Jesus meant a child that isn't even on the picture but will be born some time in the future whose life will overlap with the baby shown.

33

Fading ... Do You Owe Witness Friends An Explanation?

by What Now? in

i'm curious about what you all think on this subject.

when my husband and i became irregular about a year ago, and then inactive around 5 months ago, i felt that it would be hypocritical to take advantage of the social side of the witness community if we weren`t going to meetings or in service.

we stopped entertaining (which we did quite regularly - theme parties, card parties, movie nights, big turkey dinners, breakfasts on holidays etc), and i slowly stopped accepting invitations for get togethers, playdates etc.

ThomasCovenant

I didn't fade.

I explained to the two couples that we were close to that I didn't believe a word of it anymore, after my research, and that our relationship would no longer be able to continue, due to the fact that they would continue being Witnesses and I wouldn't.

I suppose I was the one to cut them off and out of my life.

The one couple suggested I was suffering from depression and that was the last we had to do with them.

The other couple said they wouldn't judge us but I knew it wouldn't work.

That was about 9 years ago.

I feel honest about myself.

I saw them both at a funeral recently at the Kingdom Hall and we all chatted and laughed as normal.

Probably it could be said my friendship was just as conditional as theirs.

My friendship was based on them being honest and principled.

When I told my parents that I was leaving I explained to them that all my former friendships with Witnesses would have to end.

My parents said ''don't be silly'', but I told them I wouldn't respect them if they did carry on with me, as they would be going against the very belief system that they allegedly followed.

To be honest with myself, then 'Yes' I did feel I owed an explanation to my friends to explain why I was no longer going to continue with them.

32

Need article about looking to the slave rather than Christ for salvation

by Bonnie_Clyde in

jw
friends

i thought there was something recently.

clyde says he needs it soon to show a friend, and i don't know where to find it.

can i get it off jw.org ?

ThomasCovenant

If I, Thomas Covenant, wrote,

''We need to obey Thomas Covenant to have God's approval''

isn't it the same as ''You need to obey me to have God's approval''?

32

Need article about looking to the slave rather than Christ for salvation

by Bonnie_Clyde in

jw
friends

i thought there was something recently.

clyde says he needs it soon to show a friend, and i don't know where to find it.

can i get it off jw.org ?

ThomasCovenant

The Searcher,

It's the correct one, the Simplified English Edition. Its a subheading, the actual quote is,

''We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah's approval''

But bearing in mind it's the faithful and discreet slave, the governing body, who are saying this to the flock

I've made it into an Even More Simpified English E dition.

''You need to obey us to have Jehovah's approval''.

32

Need article about looking to the slave rather than Christ for salvation

by Bonnie_Clyde in

jw
friends

i thought there was something recently.

clyde says he needs it soon to show a friend, and i don't know where to find it.

can i get it off jw.org ?

ThomasCovenant

Don't forget the eight members of the governing body are talking to the rest of the witnesses. Ditch the 3rd person shite.

The Watchtower of July 15, 2013 said "It is vital that you recognize us. Your spiritual health and your relationship with God depend on this channel." (page 20)"

" You need to obey us to have Jehovah's approval." Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.24 Simplified English Edition

"The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following our lead, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ." Watchtower 2010 Sep 15 p.23

"It is vital that you appreciate this fact and respond to our directions as you would to the voice of God, because it is His provision." Watchtower 1957 Jun 15 p.370

"By submitting to us , you also show your subjection to the Master, Jesus Christ."(w02 10/1 p. 19)

Therefore, when you loyally submit to our direction , you are submitting to Christ, the slave's Master. - (W 4-1-2007, p.24. par.12)

140

Why So Many Young People Are Leaving The Watchtower

by Jeremy C in

i have been giving a lot of thought to the young people who are leaving the watchtower organization in recent years.

last night, i was reading the thread posted by jwfacts a while back in which he provided some statistics and graphs showing the rapidly declining growth in the watchtower.

one factor that was discussed at length was the high number of young people who do not stay in the organization.

ThomasCovenant

BTTT

12

NY Times article: On Gay priests, Pope Francis asks, "Who am I to judge?"

by adamah in

from ny times:.

rome for generations, homosexuality has largely been a taboo topic for the vatican, ignored altogether or treated as an intrinsic moral evil, in the words of the previous pope.

in that context, brief remarks by pope francis suggesting that he would not judge priests for their sexual orientation, made aboard the papal airplane on the way back from his first foreign trip, to brazil, resonated through the church.

ThomasCovenant

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/who-am-i-to-judge-the-pope-says-gay-man-2013073077345

A GAY man has said that although Pope-ish acts are bad, a Pope-ish orientation is not.

In what his friends claim is a softening of his stance on Popes, 38-year-old gay chef Tom Logan claimed he was fine with them as long as they didn't do any Pope stuff.

He said: "If a person is a Pope but has good will, who am I to judge them?

"And it would be even more ridiculous if I were to say that then continue by telling Popes how to behave.

"After all I am just a bloke, albeit a bloke with a funny hat - a chef's hat. Actually that does make me a bit special, so listen up."

Speaking from behind the vaguely pulpit-like oven at the restaurant where he works, Logan said: "It's fine for a man to have Pope-ish feelings, as long as he does not act on them in any way. Or lobby for religion.

"You could argue that telling a Pope not to do any Pope behaviour, like taking mass or dressing up in robes, is essentially the same as telling them not to be a Pope. But it is not.

"Don't even try to argue with me, or I will wave this spoon in an intimidating manner."

Logan's colleague Emma Bradford said: "Because Tom's very sexually frustrated he's gone a bit funny and developed a weird belief system. Basically he thinks he is a spokesman for this invisible being called 'Gorgonzola'.

"He doesn't realise that for a religion to be proper it has to have been made up a long time ago."