Posts by WheninDoubt

28

Here at last, My JC letter. No response but heard thru the grapevine that I was DA'd anyways.

by Question_Mans_interpretation in

jw
friends

hello all, i finally got around to posting my letter to my judicial committee meeting requests.

sorry its kind of long, it came to 4 pages because of the special meeting requests.

tuesday january 28, 2014.

WheninDoubt

Correction: The butler under Pope Benedict even though the Pope Forgave him, but a different story under Pope Francis.

68

Help needed: Written material regarding shunning of DF'd and DA'd individuals

by EdenOne in

i would like this to become a permanent thread, because i think there are grounds - at least in europe - to take this matter up to the european court of human rights.

not sure we'll ever get there, but one must start somewhere.

objective: force, by legal means, the watchtower society and the jehovah's witnesses to stop the practice of shunning ex-jehovah's witnesses, on grounds that it constitutes a violation of human rights.. what is needed: all written material ever published by the watchtower society, especially since 1940's, concerning the practice of shunning.

WheninDoubt

International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

Adopted and opened for signature, ratification and accession by General Assembly resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966 entry into force 23 March 1976, in accordance with Article 49

Attention to Article: PART II Article 2

Hate Speech coming from this forum.

28

Here at last, My JC letter. No response but heard thru the grapevine that I was DA'd anyways.

by Question_Mans_interpretation in

jw
friends

hello all, i finally got around to posting my letter to my judicial committee meeting requests.

sorry its kind of long, it came to 4 pages because of the special meeting requests.

tuesday january 28, 2014.

WheninDoubt

So whose law is this 1st amendment right you speak of belong to? Reference Matthew 6:24. The same principle applies, when it comes to church. Christianity has many doctrines and builds upon different foundations. The context: “The Lamp of the Body” also Galatians 1:10

So the reference you made of Isaiah 2:4 Context: The Mountain of the lord is admirable if applied to one’s heart truthfully.

Once again, church and state are separate. If you wish to speak of international law, the U.N. then look at International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

Adopted and opened for signature, ratification and accession by General Assembly resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966 entry into force 23 March 1976, in accordance with Article 49

Attention to Article: PART II Article 2

Which all in this forum are guilty of and even the owner of this website. So how would proceed to sue, since this would also include religions such as the Mormons, Amish, and yes even the Catholics that excommunicate their unrepentant members, and break all ties or dealings with that person. Example, the butler that opened the Vatican scandal under Pope Francis, this person is not even allowed back into Vatican City.

28

Here at last, My JC letter. No response but heard thru the grapevine that I was DA'd anyways.

by Question_Mans_interpretation in

jw
friends

hello all, i finally got around to posting my letter to my judicial committee meeting requests.

sorry its kind of long, it came to 4 pages because of the special meeting requests.

tuesday january 28, 2014.

WheninDoubt

This is an interesting situation. However since you disassociated yourself by your acts of going to another church in quest of the truth, and by your own admission of doing so. Then there is no civil legal disparities to claim. Any junior grade trial lawyer for the WT can counter act any civil filings you think you might have. To disfellowship a person being present or not due to their own understanding is not uncommon for the WT. No more than any other religion that sets its own foundation. People need to learn to separate church from state to think they both run hand in hand when they don’t.

It’s like atheist trying to sue any church for them not believing in God. However you might find a desperate civil litigant to attempt the impossible.

52

Why do I suddenly want to start reading JW literature and going to Kingdom Halls?

by yogosans14 in

jw
friends

is good calling me back or am i just letting my emotions get the best of me?also i really want to be closer to my jw family.

btw i was never baptized and i consider myself a born again christian i go to a baptist church and wath televangelist and i have expirenced gods presence like never before but sometimes i get fearful and think "what if jws are right and i'm wrong" than i'm screwed!but if there wrong and i'm right it doesn't look to good for them.. i would prefer if nobody posted "god isn't real" type comments.

i truly believe he is real but i respect why some are atheists..

WheninDoubt

So that, I may understand Finkeistein, then, since the WT is so evil, you agree with the teaching of Jim Jones, Heavens gate, Ted Haggard, Tammy Faye, Rick Warren, etc., as far back to Dwight Moody. All that have advocated for changes or for themselves, like the Amish, Islam, Buddhist, etc. Only the WT is evil correct?

4

Going inside "Christendoms evil churches" after abandoning the BORG

by yogosans14 in

after i was done with the wt and its unbiblical teachings i went to other churches.

first i went to a roman catholic church after reading many of the early church father writings (which btw all of them affirm the trinity) and as i first went in i thought i was literally going to burst in flames or become posssed by a demon!but as i went in the church had a nice smell to it and i sat down in the back pew and the church was very full.

the service was beautiful, there was 4 bible readings and a sermon and the priest talked about being a light to the world and living like christ and it was a very uplifting sermon considering i used to think catholics were idol worshipers and never read the bible.

WheninDoubt

Isn’t that hypocritical Cofty, since you advocate hatred as a disfellowshipped Witness? You would think by becoming a Pastor, it should have taught you to move on with your life instead of becoming a voice for sin. What would your church elders say about you speaking about the gospel in one hand and defiling it in the other? I am shocked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

52

Why do I suddenly want to start reading JW literature and going to Kingdom Halls?

by yogosans14 in

jw
friends

is good calling me back or am i just letting my emotions get the best of me?also i really want to be closer to my jw family.

btw i was never baptized and i consider myself a born again christian i go to a baptist church and wath televangelist and i have expirenced gods presence like never before but sometimes i get fearful and think "what if jws are right and i'm wrong" than i'm screwed!but if there wrong and i'm right it doesn't look to good for them.. i would prefer if nobody posted "god isn't real" type comments.

i truly believe he is real but i respect why some are atheists..

WheninDoubt

So Finkeistein, Is that the reason why Jesus was crucified? Not that he had literature to disperse, but the word of God which is part of Christendom, is what one wants, to be closer to God through Jesus. So I guess you’re calling Jesus a liar, what he proclaimed in Matthew 28:19.

I don’t know what JW’s you speak of, since that Religion, that I know of, has always been told to seek a personal relationship with God: I never heard that the Watch Tower would save your life. The salvation comes within us. No Father, Preacher, Priest can remove your sins, So in order to save your soul, you need to work at it as Jesus demonstrated to his Apostles and people of that time.

Jeremiah 29:11 ESV

For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.

John 1:10-13 ESV

He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Romans 5:8 ESV

But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

John 6:40 ESV /

For this is the will of my Father that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

28

For all still in.... fakers. Help.

by Sofia Lose in

am i alone in this feeling?

i wish i could muster the cojones needed to tell my husband "i want a divorce, move away, not be a jw anymore!".

i find myself screaming these same words over and loud inside my mind, several times a day, and yet on the outside my actions could not be more opposed to these inner feelings.. sometimes i worry that this internal conflict will cause me to go crazy.

WheninDoubt

This is the basic fundamental foundation or Creed of Christendom regardless of what religion you’re from.

Morpheus are you suggesting to Sofia Lose that you’re a Christian? If so, what denomination. At what point does your overture hold this concept. Keep in mind, this philosophy is not derived from JW’s. Nevertheless I believe Sofia Lose also stated she didn’t wish to be a JW anymore. So the soul searching is within her, and her alone as stated by DOC.

What Does the Bible Say About Christian Values and Christian Life?

Frequently Asked Questions

How can I follow and obey God's will and live a Godly life?
How can I be faithful to God in my everyday life?
What does it mean to do good works?
What are Christian moral and ethical values?
What does God require of us?
How can I obey the Word of God?
How can I live my life in Christ?
What should I do to avoid sinning?
How can I be a child of God?
How can I show my love for God?
What values are taught in the Bible?
What are the Christian virtues?

Many people sincerely want to live Godly lives but we often hear conflicting ideas of what that means.

Introduction

Worldly values include wealth, power, pleasure, revenge, fame, vanity and status. These are the most important things to people who perceive no power or purpose beyond themselves. Worldly values promote jealousies, resentments and conflicts among people in accordance with the purposes of Satan (John 8:44, Acts 5:3, Romans 16:17-20, 2 Corinthians 4:4, Ephesians 2:1-3, 4:25-32, 2 Timothy 2:22-26, 1 John 3:8-10).

The values taught in the Bible are often the opposite of worldly values: kindness and respect for all people instead of power; humility instead of status; honesty and generosity instead of wealth; self-control instead of self-indulgence; forgiveness instead of revenge. Christian values promote peace and good will among people in accordance with the purposes of God. We will never achieve perfection in this life, but those people who strive to obey God often find a sense of joy and peace that no worldly rewards can match!

Here is a list of ten values or principles for living that are emphasized most strongly in the Bible:

1. Worship Only God

One day, a religious leader asked Jesus which of the commandments was most important:

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' (NIV, Mark 12:28-30)

The Hebrews of Old Testament times tended to lapse into worship of pagan deities and statues of animals or other objects, but anything that takes the place of our devotion to God becomes an idol or false god, and that is forbidden by the first of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-6). Jesus particularly singled out love of wealth as a false god (Matthew 6:24; Luke 16:13), and other Bible passages mention greed, covetousness, arrogance, gluttony and pride as being equivalent to idolatry.

In today's world, many things compete against God for our devotion. These are some of the things that are not necessarily bad in moderation, but can become modern-day idolatry if we let them become too important to us:

Excessive attention to material things such as houses, cars, clothes, jewelry, physical appearance, entertainment, etc.
Pursuit of wealth, power, fame, pleasure or status
Excessive devotion to self, job, hobbies, country, ideologies, heroes, leaders, even family

Bible references: 1 Samuel 15:23, Matthew 6:31-34, 22:34-40, Mark 12:28-31, Luke 10:25-28, Acts 14:11-15, 1 Corinthians 10:14, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, Philippians 3:18-19, 1 Timothy 6:6-11, 6:17-20, 2 Timothy 3:1-5, Hebrews 13:5, 1 Peter 4:1-6
Other references: Love the Lord Your God, What Does the Bible Say About Money and Wealth?, Wealth

2. Respect All People

After saying "Love the Lord your God" is the most important of the commandments, Jesus continued,

The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." (NIV, Mark 12:31)

The English word "love" has many different meanings, but the Greek word, agape, used in the New Testament, is commonly known as "Christian love." It means respect, affection, benevolence, good-will and concern for the welfare of the one loved.

In His Parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus made the point that we should extend our Christian love to all people of the world, regardless of race, religion, nationality or any other artificial distinction. We must practice that Christian love even toward our enemies! (Matthew 5:43-48)

Jesus' Golden Rule is, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." We should not say or do anything unless we can answer "Yes" to the question, "Would I want that said or done to me?" Neither should we fail to do the good things we would expect of others.

Bible references: Leviticus 19:18, Matthew 7:12, 22:34-40, Mark 12:28-31, Luke 6:31, 10:25-28, John 13:34-35, Romans 13:8-10, 15:1-2, James 2:8
Other references: Love Your Neighbor as Yourself, What are the Greatest Commandment and the Parable of the Good Samaritan?, What Does the Bible Say About Love?

3. Be Humble

Humility or being humble is a quality of being courteously respectful of others. It is the opposite of aggressiveness, arrogance, boastfulness, and vanity. Acting with humility does not in any way deny our own self-worth. Rather, it affirms the inherent worth of all persons. Humility is exactly what is needed to live in peace and harmony with all persons. It dissipates anger and heals old wounds. It allows us to see the dignity and worth of all God's people. Humility distinguishes the wise leader from the arrogant power-seeker (Proverbs 17:7, Matthew 20:20-28).

Bible references: Matthew 5:5-9, 20:25-28, Mark 9:35, 1 Corinthians 10:24, Ephesians 4:1-6, Philippians 2:2-8, 2 Timothy 2:22-25,
Other reference: Humility

4. Be Honest

Honesty and integrity are held as very important values throughout the Bible, and any deception to gain an advantage or harm another is prohibited by the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:16) and other Bible passages. Deception may be by false statements, half-truths, innuendo, or failing to tell the whole truth. It is all too common in advertising, business dealings, politics and everyday life. We must strongly resist the temptation to engage in any form of theft, cheating, deception, innuendo, slander or gossip.

Rationalization is a form of self-deception by which we convince ourselves that sinful actions are justified in order to achieve a good result, but this is really just another form of dishonesty (Galatians 6:7-8, James 1:26, 1 John 1:8). Holiness is in living by the commandments, not in achieving an end result (Matthew 4:8-10, 16:26). In Biblical teaching, the ends do not justify the means!

Bible references: Exodus 20:15, Leviticus 19:35-36, Deuteronomy 16:19-20, 25:13-16, Psalms 15:1-5, 24:3-5, Proverbs 10:9, 11:1, 11:3, 12:22, 16:28, 19:1, 20:10, 24:28, 28:6, 28:20, Isaiah 33:15-16, Zechariah 7:9, Mark 10:19, Luke 3:12-14, 16:10-12, 2 Corinthians 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:2, 2 Corinthians 8:21, Ephesians 4:25, Philippians 4:8-9, Colossians 3:9, Hebrews 13:18, 1 Peter 2:12, 3:10

5. Live a Moral Life

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body. (NIV, 1 Corinthians 6:19-20)

Jesus gave a list of actions that constitute immoral uses of the body: evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, arrogance and foolishness. The apostle Paul gave similar lists.

We often think of morality in terms of sexual sins, but according to Jesus, sins such as slander, greed, covetousness, deceit, and arrogance are equally immoral.

Bible references: Exodus 20:1-17, Matthew 5:27-28, 15:18-19, Mark 7:20-22, 10:11-12, Romans 13:11-14, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:16-26, Ephesians 5:1-7, Colossians 3:5-10, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-9

6. Be Generous with Time and Money

The Bible tells us to share generously with those in need, and good things will come to us in turn. Each of us has something to offer to someone in need. We can give our money and our time to charity, be a friend to someone who is sick or lonely, do volunteer work or choose a service-oriented occupation. We may give unselfishly of our time to our spouse, children or parents.

This does not mean we are obligated to share our time or money with people who are clearly not in need but just want to use or abuse us (2 Thessalonians 3:10-12).

Bible references: Leviticus 19:9-10, 25:35-38, Deuteronomy 15:7-11, Proverbs 14:21, 28:27, Isaiah 58:10-11, Matthew 5:42, 6:1-2, 25:31-46, Luke 6:38, 12:33, 21:1-4, Acts 20:35, Romans 12:6-8, 2 Corinthians 9:5-7, Hebrews 13:1-3, 13:15-16, 1 Timothy 6:17-19, 1 John 3:17,
Other references: What Does the Bible Say About Generosity and Duty to the Poor?, What Does the Bible Say About Using Time, Talents and Wealth?, What Does the Bible Say About Money and Wealth?

7. Practice what you Preach; Don't be a Hypocrite

If there was any one group of people that Jesus couldn't stand, it was hypocrites! The Pharisees of Jesus' time were a religious and political party that insisted on very strict observance of Biblical laws on tithing, ritual purity and other matters. At the same time, many of the Pharisees forgot the true spirit and intent of the law and became self-indulgent, self-righteous, snobbish, and greedy. That led Jesus to remarks such as,

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. (NIV, Matthew 23:27-28)

It is not the things we say that really matter; it is the things that we do (Matthew 7:15-20). If we claim to be Christians but do not let Jesus' teachings guide our lives, we are nothing but hypocrites.

Bible references: Psalms 50:16-17, Isaiah 29:13-15, Jeremiah 7:1-11, Micah 3:11-12, Matthew 6:1-7, 7:1-5, 7:21-23, 15:7-9, 23:1-33, Luke 20:46-47, Romans 2:21-24, James 1:22-27, 2:14-24, 1 John 1:5-7, 2:3-6, 2:9, 4:19-21

8. Don't Be Self-righteous

No one is perfect; we are all sinners in one way or another (Romans 3:23, 1 John 1:8). Living a moral life means taking responsibility for controlling our own behavior. If we say or even think we are better than people we consider to be "sinners," we are guilty of the sin of self-righteousness. It is not our right to look down on, criticize, judge, condemn, or try to control other people. Judgment is to be left to God. Jesus said,

Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbor, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' while the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye. (NRSV, Matthew 7:1-5)

This does not deny the right of governments to maintain law and order and collect taxes. Jesus and other New Testament leaders supported the authority of civil governments (Matthew 22:15-22, Romans 13:1-7).

Bible references: Proverbs 26:12, Isaiah 5:21, Matthew 7:1-5, 9:10-13, 18:10, Luke 6:32-42, 7:36-50, 18:9-14, John 8:1-8, Romans 2:1-4, 3:23, 14:1, 14:10-12, 1 Corinthians 4:5, 13:1-7, 16:14, Galatians 6:1-3, James 2:12-13, 4:11-12, 1 John 1:8

9. Don't Hold a Grudge

Jesus said there is no place for hatred, holding a grudge, revenge, retaliation or getting even in the life of a Christian:

You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. (NIV, Matthew 5:38-40)

You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. (NIV, Matthew 5:43-45)

Bearing a grudge and seeking revenge are never appropriate responses to a perceived wrong. A grudge destroys the grudge-holder with bitterness, and revenge only escalates hostilities. Jesus told us we must reconcile with our adversaries, forgive their transgressions, and let go of the anger that may tempt us to commit an act of revenge.

Bible references: Leviticus 19:18, Psalms 37:8-9, Proverbs 10:12, 12:16, 15:1, 15:7, 19:11, 20:22, 24:29, Matthew 5:21-26, 5:43-48, Romans 12:17-21, 1 Corinthians 6:7-8, Ephesians 4:26, 4:31-32, Colossians 3:7-8, James 1:19-20, 1 Thessalonians 5:15, 1 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:9-11, 4:19-21

10. Forgive Others

If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins. (NLT, Matthew 6:14-15)

God is merciful and forgives our sins and failings. In the same way, we must be merciful and forgive other people who sin against us or do us harm.

Bible references: Matthew 5:7, 18:21-35, Mark 11:25, Luke 17:3-4, Colossians 3:12-14, Ephesians 4:32

28

For all still in.... fakers. Help.

by Sofia Lose in

am i alone in this feeling?

i wish i could muster the cojones needed to tell my husband "i want a divorce, move away, not be a jw anymore!".

i find myself screaming these same words over and loud inside my mind, several times a day, and yet on the outside my actions could not be more opposed to these inner feelings.. sometimes i worry that this internal conflict will cause me to go crazy.

WheninDoubt

Are you sure you’re not putting your own desires above your marriage? It seems you’re asking a bunch of apostates, atheist, and evolutionist for absolution. Instead of talking to your mate, you prefer to lose everything in the name of your own desires. Then the problem is not your mate or religion, the problem is you. God doesn’t put divisions in marriage. He units them. Perhaps something that wasn’t in you to begin with. So talk to your mate first, if he is taking too much time out of his marital obligations? Then that’s something both of you can work on. If you don’t want to be a JW because you see the desires of this world, and you believe it’s passing you by, then your mate deserves honesty. God doesn’t need that type of person in his house, regardless, what religion you’re in. So instead of looking for permission here, research your soul for a better understanding, be it with God or not, or to the four corners of the universe. The decision will be your own and not by someone else’s ideology. Be true to yourself while not being a hypocrite.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

WheninDoubt

Would your illustration be before or after that creation would have sinned to go from vegetation to meat. To have teeth for foraging and digging to preservation. The bible states vegetation, however you seem to imply a marvel of modern science to know implicitly. Did you build a time machine? So then, your point being!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you wish to continue, the forum is yours, I find your argument redundant at this point.

When scientists discovered the fossilized skull of a huge prehistoric rodent six years ago in Uruguay, they could tell right away that the extinct buffalo-sized creature had freakishly large incisors.

But a new analysis of the specimen of Josephoartigasia monesi -- believed to be the "the largest rodent ever to have lived" -- reveals that this ancient relative of the guinea pig used its gigantic teeth for more than delivering a powerful bite.

“We concluded that Josephoartigasia must have used its incisors for activities other than biting, such as digging in the ground for food, or defending itself from predators," Dr. Philip Cox, a professor of physiology at the University of York and Hull York Medical School in England, who led the research, said in a written statement. "This is very similar to how a modern day elephant uses its tusks."

While not so huge as the largest non-avian dinosaurs, Gastornis was nevertheless a giant in its Paleocene and Eocene heyday between 55 and 40 million years ago. In Europe the bird towered over the mammals who inhabited the same forests – the largest herbivores and carnivores of the day were about the size of a German shepherd, with many being considerably smaller. (In North America, where Gastornis fossils were previously labeled “Diatryma“, some of the contemporary herbivorous mammals grew to bigger sizes, but there were still many smaller beasts running about.) So it seemed only natural that the monstrous bird would have preyed on the scurrying mammals, pouncing on “dawn horses” and cleaving lemur-like primates in two with it’s powerful beak. In museums and documentaries, Gastornis marked the last gasp of dinosaur dominance before mammals took over the world.

But recent research has found that Gastornis wasn’t so terrifying, after all. While a 1991 paper concluded that the bird’s beak could have made short work of many small mammals, other publications pointed out that such a beak would have been just as well-suited to cracking seeds and crunching tough fruit. More recently, tracks of Gastornis – née “Diatryma” – found in Washington show that the bird had blunted toes rather than vicious talons, and a preliminary study of dietary clues preserved in the bones of a German specimen of the bird suggested a menu of plants rather than flesh. And now paleontologist Delphine Angst and colleagues have added another line of evidence that Gastornis probably wasn’t a rapacious mammal-muncher.