Posts by clash_city

169

X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

by clash_city_rockers in

jw
friends

hi folks,.

i'm just sort of taking role call to all those x-dubs who are now brothers and sisters in christ.

i think it is wise for us to rise up and be counted so that we know who each other are.

clash_city_rockers

Hillary,

There is no contradiction between cause and means now go to college (if they will let you in) and take a formal logic class and stop commiting catigorical falicies.

Plum,

Stop being a silly sheep and follow any mans ideas just because they are antagonistic to the Christian worldview. Learn to formulate educated and informed ideas for yourself that are valid and consistant. Unfortunatly if one rejects Christ and the Christian worldiew then forming an internally consistant philosophy would be impossible.

cheers hugs and kisses,
jr

169

X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

by clash_city_rockers in

jw
friends

hi folks,.

i'm just sort of taking role call to all those x-dubs who are now brothers and sisters in christ.

i think it is wise for us to rise up and be counted so that we know who each other are.

clash_city_rockers

Plum,
If you were someone who read scripture constantly you would be saturated with God’s word and your words would be more edifying.

Just2laws,
Maybe your right I should have used more discression. My fault for lack of prudence.

You said:

if you want to help JW's to accept Jesus Christ I cannot think of a better way to fail than to be dogmatic about doctrines not clearly stated in the bible such as the trinity and to condemn others as unsaved because they do not accept your interpretation. I'm sorry but to me this approach IS NOT the way of Christ

The problem here is that your grip isn’t really with me I’m just trying to be faithfull to passages in the scriptures that talk about those who have “another Jesus” As far as the trinity and your claim that it isn’t a clear teaching well that is a arrogant claim. Just because you don’t understand the trinity doesn’t imply that the doctrine is not clear in scripture. You are not the standard of what is clear doctrine and what isn’t. In fact I stand shoulder to shoulder with Christians of all protestant bible believing evangelicals who say what the bible says and that trinity is an absolute Christian essential. Just for example I stand with:
1. Orthodox Presbyterian Church
2. Presbyterian Church of America
3. Reformed Presbyterian Church in North America
4. United Reformed Church of America
5. Free Church of Scotland
6. Reformed Church in the United States
7. Netherlands Free Reformed Church
8. Reformed Baptist Church and Fellowship
9. Southern Baptist Church
10. Confederation of Reformed Evangelicals
11. Korean Presbyterian Church of America
12. Sovereign Grace Baptist Fellowship
13. Lutheran Church Missouri Synod
14. Reformed Episcopal Church
15. Free Presbyterian Church in Ireland

And millions of others who subscribe to the Westminster Standards (Presbyterian), Three Forms of Unity (Dutch Reformed), Book of Concord and Augsburg Confession (Lutheran), 1644 or 1689 London Baptist or Philadelphia Confession (Baptist), Second Helvetic Confession (Swiss Reformed), Savoy Declaration of Faith (Reformed Congregationalist), 39 Articles (Episcopal)
I guess this leaves you out of the door. But in your position how can you give an account of the following passage, what is Paul mean in the fallowing:

Gal 1:6-9

6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Lets do an antithesis study. If one is presenting a non Trinitarian Jesus then he is presenting as Paul says “another Jesus”. If that is the case then according to scripture those who present a non Trinitarian Jesus are Dammed.
Now let’s do the reverse and say the Non Trinitarian position is true. They still have to be faithful to the Pauline position in Galatians. If one is presenting a Trinitarian Jesus then he is presenting as Paul says “another Jesus”. If that is the case then according to scripture those who present a Trinitarian Jesus are Dammed.
So you see there is no neutrality on the matter.
Sorry to say friend maybe it’s not good to see you here. I’ll be praying for you though. Nothing personal I’m cool with you.

Grace Alone, Faith Alone, Christ Alone, Scriptures Alone, to the Glory of God Alone.
jr

169

X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

by clash_city_rockers in

jw
friends

hi folks,.

i'm just sort of taking role call to all those x-dubs who are now brothers and sisters in christ.

i think it is wise for us to rise up and be counted so that we know who each other are.

clash_city_rockers

jst2laws,

I just want to have a reference to pull our resources together. Glad to have you aboard.

Grace and Peace

169

X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

by clash_city_rockers in

jw
friends

hi folks,.

i'm just sort of taking role call to all those x-dubs who are now brothers and sisters in christ.

i think it is wise for us to rise up and be counted so that we know who each other are.

clash_city_rockers

Plum wrote:

Well I'm sorry to become a bit sarcastic at this point but unfortunately you completely missed my entire point.
Maybe you'll understand what I meant in a few more years.
In the mean time

Maybe you should be clear on what you say so that communicating meaning would be a lot clearer.

Dino wrote:

I also feel that my worship of the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, should be handled in a dignified, reverent, and devout manner that befits thinking persons. I am not dogmatic in that thinking, to each his own.

First off what you just said is a dogmatic statement in itself. Sorry my friend but you can’t avoid dogmatics when describing a religious worldview. Second growing stronger in the Christian faith is God’s work of grace not yours. When you describe growing in religious faith in god it is not the God of the bible you are growing in but some bazaar concoction that the idol factory in your mind has invented. Your faith is not biblical faith of God’s Grace alone, but your faith is a means to justify ones own righteousness by ones own works. Your idea of faith is just as menacing and oppressive as the legalistic conception of faith that is defined by the Watchtower. Man made religion will never give you peace. Only the free gift of life (justification by faith alone by the imputed righteousness of Christ) is the only means of true peace.

Bona Dea demonstrates he wisdom by saying:

It is arrogant and stupid comments like this that are frequently made by members of the church that prompted me to open the door to the witnesses. I thought surely they are not as judgemental as these(little did I know)

In all your wisdom you should have a clear, detailed, thoughtful and cogent response and a detailed presentation of the alternative to my position. All you gave was an emotional response. Pouting does not contribute to a fruitful dialog. Finally what drove you to the Jehovah’s Witnesses is the love for your own sin and the love of evil. Sin and wickedness are moral characters that go well with the Watchtower.

Plum writes:

It is frustrateing to hear those who profess to have such a close relationship with God actually try and dictate to others wheather or not they are saved. As if it is actually any of thier business in the first place.

No plum it is not I but the scriptures make such a pronouncement. Any bible believing Christian can make the same pronouncement. It is the bible that condemns you not I. This is why you do not make a habit of reading the bible, because the bible calls you to a life of righteousness and holiness to forsake your sin and repent and trust Jesus and all of this is something you do not have the ability to do. Thus the bible speaks that you are totally dependent on God’s mercy calling you to humility and to trust His grace, yet you won’t because you are too proud just like the Watchtower.

hillary_step,
Man is just the means not the cause. Do not confuse the cause of faith (God) and the means (man). So when one is lead by God (cause) to Jesus. He uses means or instruments (man). I hope this has cleared some things up and answered some questions. This may also answer Gumby’s thoughts also. Gumby if it doesn’t let me know and I’ll spend more time on this for you. Thanks.

Six wrote:

I ask this as a brother, because today at 6:30 cst, God is going to strike them all with lightning.

Did you cause the barge to slam into I-40 in the Arkansas - Oklahoma border?

AuntieJane posted:

I believe that the Bible is an essential guide to Christian belief. However, I have a problem with Christian fundamentalists like some posting here who preach the ONLY way to salvation is through the Bible. I believe that Jesus 2 Great Commandments are clear: Love God, Love one Another.
I attend church regularly. I believe in the Trinity; however, it is not a definitive Bible teaching. It is there, it is obvious to Christians who look for it. But I do think that if Jesus / God wanted this to be a Required belief, it would have been very clearly stated. Just my thoughts.

2 Tim 3:15-17 The bible alone (sola scriptura a concept JWs and the WT hate) is good enough for Timothy to be saved then the same can be said for us. Auntie you are wrong Jesus and Jesus alone said HE and HE alone is the only way for salvation. Now how narrow minded is that yet it is true.
John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Well got to go. Remember legalism sucks

Blessings,
jr

169

X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

by clash_city_rockers in

jw
friends

hi folks,.

i'm just sort of taking role call to all those x-dubs who are now brothers and sisters in christ.

i think it is wise for us to rise up and be counted so that we know who each other are.

clash_city_rockers

plmkrzy,

When people go to church it is because something profound has happen to them they where truelly changed by God. Comming to Christ is not about some grand pubah leading one to Christ. Man is not lead to Jesus by man but by God and the Holy Spirit, God uses his word to carry the saving messege and through the vehical of providence uses weak and feeble means(his church "men and women" in thier God given roles) to carry an all powerful life changing message. God not man, leads man to Jesus Christ.

John 6:44

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Another reason why you think this going to church thing is a bit odd and a message of redemption is silly is because you are unsaved and are going to parish in hell unless God has mercy on you and you repent of you sins and trust Christ.

1 Cor 2:14

14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned

2 Cor 2:15,16

15For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. 16To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task?

2 Cor 4:3,4

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

But the good news is

Romans 3:21-31

21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[9] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

cheers,
jr

169

X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

by clash_city_rockers in

jw
friends

hi folks,.

i'm just sort of taking role call to all those x-dubs who are now brothers and sisters in christ.

i think it is wise for us to rise up and be counted so that we know who each other are.

clash_city_rockers

lv4fer,

Wow, what a story. I will be praying for you. and remember whats Angie said and it is true "GOD is Great"
lv4fer, if you guys need to talk about any issues or have any question please feel free to ask or e-mail me.

blessings and we will be praying for you and remember God is gracious he will protect and feed all those who trust Him.

Gace and Peace,
jr

169

X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

by clash_city_rockers in

jw
friends

hi folks,.

i'm just sort of taking role call to all those x-dubs who are now brothers and sisters in christ.

i think it is wise for us to rise up and be counted so that we know who each other are.

clash_city_rockers

Mouthy,
It’s good to see that you go to the Witnesses for Jesus convention in Penn. My Friend Dwane Magniani (who was the guy who led me to Christ and of witness inc. fame) and Donald Nelson a man who was gracious to teach me chess and instruct me in patience goes to back east to those conferences.

Unclepenn1,

How did you come up with a name like that? How where saved by Christ? How long where you a JW? That’s cool not many x-dubs know who John McArthur is. He was one of my first Christian influences along with Walter Martin when I got saved. Are you from California?

One more thing

Unclepenn1 wrote: (snip)

Clash City, great post, thanks. One comment though, as far as salvation and the Trinity goes, I dont think totally grasping it is essential for salvation, in fact, when I was saved, I didnt even realize that Jesus was God. It took a little while for the Holy Spirit to reveal to me who Christ was, but I wouldnt say that you cannot be saved without knowing this, at least at first anyway. I do understand that you cannot be born again for a period of years and still not know who Christ is.
Also, MacArthur is reformed in his teachings, just not in his eschatology.

What I was trying to communicate is that if you read me correctly is that if one REJECTS the trinity then he or she can not be counted as a Christian. When one is save he may not understand the trinity, but yet is humbled by the Lord as to be open to be taught by his word. This includes the doctrine of the trinity. This means when one is saved he will sooner or later embrace the doctrine of the trinity, but never reject it. I apologies if I didn’t make this point clear.
Second point John McArthur is not reformed period this is true of his soteriology as well as his ecclesiology and eschatology. You can’t separate one from another in systematic theology they must go together and have a sense of internal consistency you don’t have to be Berkhof or Van Til to recognize this.
1. Our Lord is a God of order not confusion right? 1Cor. 14:33 (the context of 1Cor 14 refers to “peace” as in order as apposed to chaos and this text is speaking in regards to God’s character.)
2. Since God in his very nature and character is order and peace then his revelation in particular his special revelation (the bible) is a reflection of that character
3. We are to think God’s thoughts after him. Therefore we have to think them in an orderly way.
4. If all this is the case then it stands to reason that our reflection on God’s special revelation (our systematic theology and biblical theology) should reflect God’s character growing in us. Therefore our theology should be as consistent and orderly as possible and as much free of inconsistencies and dialectical tensions for this does not reflect God's orderly character.

Sadly this is not the case of John McArthur. Even though I am encouraged that my former mentor in one sense has embraced much of the Calvinistic system but not completely all points particularly, particular redemption and union with Christ and its hermeneutic of covenant theology. Unfortunately John is a Dispensationalist and Dispensationalism is not just some harmless eschatology. Dispensationalism is a hermeneutic that is a cancer to the doctrines of grace (Calvinism). This is not a blind charge. If you look at the official doctrinal statement of Grace Community Church of the Valley which John is a ruling elder (therefore he has to be in full agreement of the doctrinal statement) they do not affirm Particular redemption (what is otherwise called limited atonement) nor do they affirm union with Christ in their official doctrinal statement. Also they reject the reformed concept of Christian liberty and are some what legalistic and moralistic and do not have a reformed Christo-centric historic redemptive approach in preaching. For example when a text is preach out of the O.T. it’s more like “what is the moral of the story how can we live like David” instead of “looking at Christ redeeming his people in that era” thus text that teach and exhort personal application and holiness are now moralized and Christ and his grace are minimalized. A good example of good Christo-centric preaching that is Christ exulting not moralistic and yet full of application is:
1. Edmond Clowney -- The unfolding Mystery, Discovering Christ in the Old Testament
2. Gerhaudus Vos – Grace and Glory

Check it out for yourself

http://www.gracechurch.org/WhatWeTeach.asp

Another reason I have inside info on this is that it was Edmond Gruss (a prof. At the Masters College) who was the first to really challenge me on the lies of the WT and refered me to Dwane Magiani who led me to Christ. Later I attended the Masters College (a college in which John McArthur is the President of) I was a member Grace Community Church. Went to school with Melinda McArthur, Dr, McArthur’s daughter. Had dinner at John McArthur’s house in Canyon Country, CA (Santa Clarita area). Got to know the inside elders at the church like Phil Johnson (who does affirm publicly all 5 points of Calvinism John and the rest of the elders haven’t), Larry Pettagrew, Scott Ardavanis and Rick Carbanou who have left to pastor other churches now that’s going back a way. I know Clayton Erb the Music leader, Rick Holland and many others. So I do got an inside track on what John Teaches. Finally I asked John on the subject himself (is he a Calvinist), looking irritated at the question he said “I do not like labels such as Calvinist, I do affirm 4 of the 5, but on Limited atonement I will not commit either way I will not affirm nor deny” So you see my friend he is defiantly not reformed you can say he is Calvinistic to some degree.

Have a great Lord’s day.

jr

9

Will this earth be destroy by fire???

by evangelist in

i found scriptures saying that this world will be destroyed by fire.. the question is will this earth be destroyed, or only the system of this world be destroyed???

what is meant by this word fundation in greek??

heb:1:10: and, thou, lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: .

clash_city_rockers

Evangelist,

No where in scripture does the bible forbid alcoholic bevereges, drunkeness yes booze no. Infact God commands us to buy booze Duet. 14:26 You need to learn about Christian liberty.

Evangelist, what the bible does forbid is disco and dancing as a means of corprate worship. not to say that disco and dancing in themselves is wrong but not as worship this is strainge fire. God commands us to sing psalms hymms and spiritual songs Col 3:16.

I would like to introduce you to the Regulative prinapal of Worship.

http://www.reformed.com/pub/psalms.htm

and no musical instament in the corprate worship of God.

http://www.reformed.com/pub/music.htm

169

X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

by clash_city_rockers in

jw
friends

hi folks,.

i'm just sort of taking role call to all those x-dubs who are now brothers and sisters in christ.

i think it is wise for us to rise up and be counted so that we know who each other are.

clash_city_rockers

Good to see a good response it is so encouraging.

Happy, chill for a second. You need to understand that Christianity is not about going off to war nor does it have anything to do with nationalism. Christianity is about Jesus and his mission of redemption through out history culminating in the cross and the continual advancement of His Kingdom through the church. The Christian message is not one of patriotism nor is it of nationalism but of salvation from ones own sin and the penalty there of. Christianity is about a rescue mission that Christ alone does for his people. You see salvation is Mission Imposable for us but Mission Accomplished for Jesus and thus we repent of our sins by his grace and trust in Jesus’ work. Basically Christianity is being saved by God from God.

Billygoat, I am glad that you attend church. But you see going to church doesn’t make one a Christian just like being in a garage doesn’t make you a car. What makes one a Christian is Jesus Christ. Trusting in Jesus and repenting of what he calls sin (and this is done by his grace alone for this is a work of Jehovah Eph 2:8-10 “His workmanship”) Remember 1 John 2:3,4 “if we love Him we keep his commandments” I am not trying to judge your heart but would like to encourage you to walk in faith that you where called Eph 4:1. I recommend this book that would be very helpful to you. It is by John McArthur, first of all I am not a big McArthur guy because I’m reformed and he is not but he did write a very good book called “The Gospel According to Jesus”

ThiChi, No trinity no salvation. Because of the nature of the substatutionary atonement you cant have a salvation with out the trinity. Any attempt to explain salvation outside the trinity is an explanation of salvation by works. And that would contradict the clear teaching of the bible that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone and the clear teaching of the trinity. If you reject the trinity you reject biblical Christianity thus you are not a Christian.

Angie you should join and hang out.

Oreo, God is gracious to deliver you from such a plight. Praise the Lord I’m sure you have a very good testimony on the goodness of God.

Trotafox, Hey I’m Presbyterian too. I’m a member of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church or at least that is our denomonation.

Here is our website http://opc.fly.to/

Jeff, Dawn and Frustr8ed, good to see you

Grace and peace,
Jr

169

X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

by clash_city_rockers in

jw
friends

hi folks,.

i'm just sort of taking role call to all those x-dubs who are now brothers and sisters in christ.

i think it is wise for us to rise up and be counted so that we know who each other are.

clash_city_rockers

stocwach,

very good please feel free to share a little bit of your testamony

Grace and Peace,
jr

clash_city_rockers

Posts by clash_city_rockers