what is a cult and what is a religion?
its open to debate.
who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?
Look how cunningly they word their article:
Some think of a cult as being a dangerous religious sect with a human leader. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not look to any human as their leader.
No - instead JW's wax lyrical about the Governing Body. They look to a group of men as leaders, not one.
what is a cult and what is a religion?
its open to debate.
who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?
And what does your post show?
Does it mention disfellowshipping? The massive impact it has on individuals?
Does it explain how hard it is to leave?
That once baptised you are under the control of the elders. If they hear about something that you've allegedly done you can be called into a Judicial Committee. At ANY age?
That they can decide that a medical procedure is against God's Law (all blood products) then later change there mind (saying some procedures are conscience matters). How may people have died because of a man made doctrine?
No - like all cults it doesn't talk about all the damage. Just hyperbole.
what is a cult and what is a religion?
its open to debate.
who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?
This has been posted before but its relevant information concerning mind control tactics and defining what is
a recognized cult. .......... by Steve Hassan
I've highlighted specific elements pertaining to the JWS
1. Regulate individual’s physical reality
2. Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates
3. When, how and with whom the member has sex
4. Control types of clothing and hairstyles
5. Regulate diet - food and drink, hunger and/or fasting
6. Manipulation and deprivation of sleep
7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence
8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time
9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet
10. Permission required for major decisions
11. Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors
12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative
13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think
14. Impose rigid rules and regulations
15. Instill dependency and obedienceInformation Control
1. Deception:
a. Deliberately withhold information
b. Distort information to make it more acceptable
c. Systematically lie to the cult member
2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including:
a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media
b.Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate
e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking
3. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible
b.Control information at different levels and missions within group
c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when
4. Encourage spying on other members
a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member
b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership
c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group
5. Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including:
a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media
b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries
b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution
c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memoriesThought Control
1. Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth
a. Adopting the group's ‘map of reality’ as reality
b. Instill black and white thinking
c. Decide between good vs. evil
d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders)
2.Change person’s name and identity
3. Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words
4. Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts
5. Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member
6. Memories are manipulated and false memories are created
7. Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including:
a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in tongues
f. Singing or humming
8. Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism
9. Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed
10. Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not usefulEmotional Control
1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish
2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt
3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault
4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as
a. Identity guilt
b. You are not living up to your potential
c. Your family is deficient
d. Your past is suspect
e. Your affiliations are unwise
f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish
g. Social guilt
h. Historical guilt
5. Instill fear, such as fear of:
a. Thinking independently
b. The outside world
c. Enemies
d. Losing one’s salvation
e. Leaving or being shunned by the group
f. Other’s disapproval
6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner
7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins
8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority
a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group
b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc.
c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll
e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family
I think the post by Finkelstein clearly shows that the JW's are a cult.
For me, the difference between a cult and religions comes down this. What happens to you when you you want to leave? Can you leave with no impact on your family relationships? Are families discouraged from associating with those who have left?
When people leave the Church of England there are no consequences. The same could hardly be said of JW's.
churches and religious organisations would lose millions of dollars in tax breaks, concessions and hand outs under a radical plan to force priests, rabbis and imams to sign up to a national faith register.
under the bold proposal clergy would for the first time be forced to undergo government-specified training and security checks and would be monitored by a national body, or risk losing government funding..
former premier ted baillieu has backed the plan that has been put to federal and state leaders including the prime ministers office, and premier daniel andrews..
Here you go listener:
Imams will have to register and face security vetting under Home Office plans
i'm not jw, so i see this all standing up and very clear from an outsider perspective (i am still seeking my path).
i joined the blog a few weeks ago.
i dated a divorced jw (jw from birth) for a couple of years recently.
The greatest challenge of all? Most people inside high control groups don't want to leave. That includes JW's.
Now that we've left that may seem mad, but there you go. They simply want to stay in. Experience shows me that you have to play a waiting game.
It's frustrating but unless people are ready to 'wake up', any campaigns will be viewed as persecution and be seen as proof of how right they really are.
It's an Orwellian world in there.
somewhat just posted a link to www.jw2016.borg (remove the b ) which is an up-and-running site for 2016 dub conventions.the borg has also registered jw2017, jw2018, jw2019, and jw2020 (all .org)however, they have not reg'd jw2021.therefore, the conclusion in the title.
(a non-wt has reg'd jw2022.org)( jw2021.org is presently available, wink-wink).
With the Big A imminent, and money tight, it's surely a fine blessing to see the bruvvers planning 6 years ahead.
first off, i'd like to state that i currently have "privileges" in the congregation and volunteer at bethel on and off throughout the year.
that's as much information as i will currently give about myself.. starting off, i think something big is coming in the form of lawsuits and bad pr.
they seem to be batting down the hatches in preparation for something the last few years and even more so the last few months.
Fair point well made.
The WT is simply carrying on the Bible's track history of grandiose statements that never got fulfilled.
As long as you realise that one day you'll be on your death bed looking back over a life spent waiting for the Big A, like many generations of Bible believers before you, then that's fine.
I'll try to remember to dig out this 2017 nonsense in January 2018!
first off, i'd like to state that i currently have "privileges" in the congregation and volunteer at bethel on and off throughout the year.
that's as much information as i will currently give about myself.. starting off, i think something big is coming in the form of lawsuits and bad pr.
they seem to be batting down the hatches in preparation for something the last few years and even more so the last few months.
There is a push to complete Warwick; WT wants to get out of Kings county ASAP before all hell breaks loose, they want to direct the work from Warwick.
True, they also believed this to be the case in the past, but WT is expecting something big to hit soon by 2017 and they want to be in Warwick when they believe it will.
WT 1915 January 15th p.29 - And now we realize that we stand on the threshold of the Kingdom, and that possibly our next report will not be to Brooklyn, but to Headquarters beyond the veil.
Ooh look! A prophecy! Maybe Warwick is beyond the veil? Wow and they said that....almost 100 years ago. A 100 years of being on the threshold...
hello all, i would like to first say that i am basically questioning my faith in god.
i am not negative towards the wt at all.
so honestly i am to concerned with more ad hominem attacks towards the wt because i still love the organization and the people in it.
Hi questioningmyfaith,
Please watch this and reflect on the statistics within:
at around 4 minutes into the september 2015 video splane said "for the man and the baby to be part of josephs generation they would have had to have lived at least some time during joseph's lifespan.".
this is the lynchpin of the wt argument, that two lives must overlap to be considered the same generation.. let's take an example of twins who are born just a few minutes apart.
obviously, these twins are the same generation as each other.
At around 4 minutes into the September 2015 video Splane said "For the man and the baby to be part of Josephs generation they would have had to have lived at least some time during Joseph's lifespan."
An easy way to debunk the Josepeh idea is to read Genesis 50: 22-23:
22 And Joseph continued to dwell in Egypt, he and the household of his father, and Joseph lived for 110 years. 23 Joseph saw the third generation of Eʹphra·im’s sons,+ also the sons of Maʹchir,+ Ma·nasʹseh’s son. They were born upon Joseph’s knees.
Ephraim was Joseph's son by his wife Asenath.
So Joseph lived for how long? 110 years.
And he saw how many generations in that time? He saw the third generation of Emphriam's sons but you could therefore say he saw 4 (including Emphraim).
Deary me David, Don't ya just hate it when the Bible doesn't support your crap?
