wizzstick
JoinedPosts by wizzstick
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183
The Great Crowd!
by A Believer innotice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!
a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .
this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!
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183
The Great Crowd!
by A Believer innotice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!
a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .
this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!
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wizzstick
A Believer...copy and pasting bits of the Bible isn't forming coherent logical arguments.
It just shows you know how to use ctrl c and ctrl v.
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183
The Great Crowd!
by A Believer innotice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!
a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .
this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!
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wizzstick
And I saw standing in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a lamb that seemed to have been slaughtered,having seven horns and seven eyes, and the eyes mean the seven spirits of God that have been sent out into the whole earth.
So where are the four living creatures?
Where are the elders?
The lamb?
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183
The Great Crowd!
by A Believer innotice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!
a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .
this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!
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wizzstick
You'd find it more rewarding and less painful to slam your head into a brick wall.
I pity them.
They've spent the last 24 hours desperately trying to find anywhere which might help but can only find a passage where people are using illustrative language. Whilst standing in a part of the temple which uses the wrong greek word!
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183
The Great Crowd!
by A Believer innotice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!
a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .
this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!
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183
The Great Crowd!
by A Believer innotice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!
a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .
this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!
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wizzstick
No you haven't.
You're ignoring herion!
How does that fit with your claim?
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183
The Great Crowd!
by A Believer innotice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!
a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .
this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!
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wizzstick
It's very simple.
Where are these angels? Heaven or earth?
7:11 All the angels were standing around the throne and the elder and the four living creatures, and they fell facedown before the throne and worshipped God
So where are the great crowd then?
7:15 - That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them
The angels are before the throne. So that means they are in...?
The great crowd are before the throne - in his temple (naos). So that means they are...?
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183
The Great Crowd!
by A Believer innotice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!
a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .
this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!
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wizzstick
John 2:19
Jesus replied to them: “Tear down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Jesus was speaking using illustrative language - by temple he was talking about himself and his resurrection after three days. Naos would be the correct word to use, not the word for the outer courtyards heiron.
The Jews didn't get what he was saying.
Which feels familiar.
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183
The Great Crowd!
by A Believer innotice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!
a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .
this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!
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wizzstick
Wizzstick I, unlike believer, have read your document. It simply and comprehensively using only the bible and Watchtower explains the great crowd in Revelation ( which is the one we are talking about, the relevant " Great crowd) is in the naos, or heaven .
Please can you post it on here as I have tried and cannot.That's very kind of you..
It is very basic presentation, but when I made it I was determined only to use WT, Thayers, or the Bible:
The Great Crowd - Where are they?
Hope others might find it of some use.
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183
The Great Crowd!
by A Believer innotice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!
a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .
this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!
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wizzstick
In JW theology, the Great Crowd survives the Great Tribulation, so it is obvious in retrospect that these people were not of the Great Crowd.
Interesting point.
Here's something else to chew on.
Their being identified in 1935 as the great crowd of other sheep was an indication that the choosing of the 144,000 was then about complete."
Revelation, Its Grand Climax Now at Hand p.125But then in 2007 the WT said:
As time has gone by, some Christians baptized after 1935 have had witness borne to them that they have the heavenly hope. Thus we cannot set a specific date for when the heavenly hope ends."
Watchtower 2007 May 1 p.31If the anointed weren't sealed in 1935 then obviously it wasn't the right time to identity the Great Crowd. Which explains why all those ones have pretty much died out.
So - how does the WT know whether it should be calling the majority of JW's alive today as being of the Great Crowd? What if the sealing of the anointed isn't for another 100 years? Obviously then the JW's today aren't of the Great Crowd!
This is yet another legacy issue for the JW's. There is so much doctrine they need to re-invent with dollops of New Light.