So Fisherman.
Jan 1st 2018.
Will you post on this forum and be man enough to admit the the JW 1914 doctrine was a crap?
wizzstick
JoinedPosts by wizzstick
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the-question (607 BCE explained and proved)
by pleaseresearch inso a user named "the-question" said the jw's were right about 607 bce.. this is your chance brother to prove us all wrong.. we all can't wait to hear from you :).
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wizzstick
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the-question (607 BCE explained and proved)
by pleaseresearch inso a user named "the-question" said the jw's were right about 607 bce.. this is your chance brother to prove us all wrong.. we all can't wait to hear from you :).
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wizzstick
Apparently it expires in 2017...
Fisherman 9 months ago
GT was expected 70 years after 1914 (when you overlap 2 lifes times it is about 100 years) -ok give it 123 years; 2017 expires.
The purpose of Jesus sign was so that his disciple would see it and be ready when he came. In the first century all the apostles were presumed dead except for John or so when 70 CE came but nevertheless the other christians experienced the GT and were ready to flee Jerusalem.
The first batch of 1914 GB generation.are dead. Why would God have those anointed wait for 100 years without some realization?
Anything after 2017 does not add up to me. A generation that dies does not need the sign. Since generation includes 2 overlapping parts, neither part should pass away away and the GT should come within a time frame experienced by both parts not just the second part because generation means both overlappers. THis generation means both parts not just the second overlappers. My guess.
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the-question (607 BCE explained and proved)
by pleaseresearch inso a user named "the-question" said the jw's were right about 607 bce.. this is your chance brother to prove us all wrong.. we all can't wait to hear from you :).
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wizzstick
Hey Fisherman - here is another great post by that poster.
Time was up in 2016 apparently:
Fisherman 8 months ago
Because the anointed are the wt generation, they are supposed to pass away, Prologos
Given: WT theology
They do, wt always taught that rapture means passing way in the twinkling of an eye AFTER they see the final part of the sign. But the destruction is not the sign or part of the sign. The destruction is what the sign points to.
It is the OS, prospective members of the GC, a constantly overlapping generation ,
The great crowd of other sheep cannot interlap. First of all, they do not pass away, they survive, and second of all, each dude as an individual expects life in his lifespan which means that the oldest gc member should not be destined to die of old age.
It is all Greek to me sort of speak, but the way I interpret "...generation not passing away until.." simply means that the prophecy in its entirety should fulfill in 70-100 or so years or the maximum lifespan of anyone living at that time. WT overlapping doctrine only adds 20 years. 2016, time is up.............................
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the-question (607 BCE explained and proved)
by pleaseresearch inso a user named "the-question" said the jw's were right about 607 bce.. this is your chance brother to prove us all wrong.. we all can't wait to hear from you :).
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wizzstick
GTR is mostly commentary. However, on page 403 of the latest revision of said book, the author concedes that there is controversy disputing 587: RR Newton and scholarly support for his belief that challenges Ptolemy's observation as fabricated. - See Scientific American Oct 1977 issue page 80.
Fisherman - if you are reading GTR then you will know that Jonsson presents 17 lines of evidence. The accumulative effect is overwhelming:
Secular history is right.
Some additional context.
The 1914 doctrine is not a JW doctrine. It's not even a Bible Student doctrine. It's an inherited doctrine from Barbour that CT-R adopted. It's so old it pre-dates modern archealogy. But given the JW's have made such a fuss over it they are stuck with it. For now.
But it won't last indefinetly - as one poster said:
Fisherman 5 months ago
October 1 2016 marks 102 years from 1914 and close to 41 years from 1975. There should be something coming down on the horizon either event or teaching, my guess that something must give by 2017 latest. I have posted this before.
Oh wait...
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Reading From The Same Book?
by Cold Steel ini'm reading a brief book -- a critical analysis -- of muhammad and islam.
the following sounded familiar:.
as the cult steadily grew, muhammad strictly forbade followers to keep contact with family members in mecca or even befriend unbelievers.
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wizzstick
I'm reading a brief book -- a critical analysis -- of
Next - LDS?
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Who is Gog/Magog?
by Cold Steel inezekiel spends two chapters (38-39) describing a war that either will never take place, or which has yet to take place.
according to the prophecy, the warlord gog, of magog, will 1) sweep down on israel, covering the land like a cloud.
this will happen in 2) the latter years when israel will 3) be a people “gathered out of many nations” and peoples.
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wizzstick
BTW, I just finished watching the JW's videos on Christ. When are they going to give up on the torture stake garbage?
When are all religious people giving up on this garbage?
Gog?
Magog?
You say:
The attackers will be 4) from the land of Magog (Turkey and part of Russia), Iran, Iraq, Syria Libya and other neighboring peoples, all Muslims today.
This is all nonsense.
Over 2,000 years people have interpreted the above in different ways.
And what has happened?
Nothing.
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I am glad to have found the true religion
by A Believer init really is great.
i remember browsing this forum the day after i had joined it, and their was a knock on the door.
i thought it was one of my package from ups but instead it was two sisters.
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wizzstick
A Believer
On a previous post you mentioned you were at school.
You're young, and at a vulnerable age. If you are not careful you will:
Lose your friends. It doesn't who they are, or how long they have been your friends you'll be expected to drop them. They'll automatically be considered 'bad association' by JW's.
Lose your family. As you won't be celebrating birthdays or Christmas anymore you'll find your family relationships will get strained.
Have limited prospects. JW's are against further education, and university in particular. This is why there are so many jokes on this forum about elders being window cleaners etc. You could be a low wage earner all your life as you'll be encouraged to quit further education and focus on what the WT considers 'theocratic activities'.
I'm sure the sistes that called were very nice (was one of the them hot?!) but it's a strange world you are looking at entering. On the outside it looks great, nice people who are all smiles in the meetings. But once you're inside you'll be stuck in an endless cycle of meetings, assemblies, ministry and the hierachy in the organisation. Over time you'll find them incredibly gossipy and friendships will only last as long as you keep in that endless cycle I mentioned above.
I strongly urge you to re-read JWFacts and see if you can get copies of 'Crisis of Conscience' and 'Gentile Times Reconsidered' online.
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201
I am glad to have found the true religion
by A Believer init really is great.
i remember browsing this forum the day after i had joined it, and their was a knock on the door.
i thought it was one of my package from ups but instead it was two sisters.
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wizzstick
He mediates the new covenant between God and those taken into the new covenant, the congregation of spiritual Israel.
A Believer - Spiritual Israel = 144,000
Jesus does not mediate for the Great Crowd.
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201
I am glad to have found the true religion
by A Believer init really is great.
i remember browsing this forum the day after i had joined it, and their was a knock on the door.
i thought it was one of my package from ups but instead it was two sisters.
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wizzstick
Yesu the JW teach Jesus is our mediator
No they do not.
The WT says that Jesus is the mediator for the 144,000 only.
They have a made up role for him for the Great Crowd.
Those for Whom Christ Is Mediator. The apostle Paul declares that there is “one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all”—for both Jews and Gentiles. (1Ti 2:5, 6) He mediates the new covenant between God and those taken into the new covenant, the congregation of spiritual Israel. (Heb 8:10-13; 12:24; Eph 5:25-27) Christ became Mediator in order that the ones called “might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance” (Heb 9:15); he assists, not the angels, but “Abraham’s seed.” (Heb 2:16) He assists those who are to be brought into the new covenant to be ‘adopted’ into Jehovah’s household of spiritual sons; these eventually will be in heaven as Christ’s brothers, becoming a part with him of the seed of Abraham. (Ro 8:15-17, 23-25; Ga 3:29) He has transmitted to them the promised holy spirit, with which spirit they are sealed and are given a token of what is to come, their heavenly inheritance. (2Co 5:5; Eph 1:13, 14) The total number of those who are finally and permanently sealed is revealed in Revelation 7:4-8 as 144,000.
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201
I am glad to have found the true religion
by A Believer init really is great.
i remember browsing this forum the day after i had joined it, and their was a knock on the door.
i thought it was one of my package from ups but instead it was two sisters.
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wizzstick
How about this one, can you using the bible show scripturally the bible condemn rape and slavery? Spoiler alert you cannot. They are not treated as moral issues. that is your bible there buddy, pretty sick for being the highest level of morality man has...
Here
Let's see what the WT says in the last couple of paragraphs:
The End of Slavery
As is the case with every Bible-related question, the issue of slavery must be considered in context. A careful examination of the Scriptures reveals that God deplores the mistreatment of humans.
Such an examination also reveals that the kind of slavery practiced by God’s people in the Bible is not the cruel and abusive slavery that is envisioned by most people today. And the Bible shows that God will deliver us from all forms of slavery in due time. Then, all mankind will enjoy true freedom
So let's take that one by one:
the issue of slavery must be considered in context
The WT bullet point in the article says:
- The maximum time that any Israelite would have to serve as a slave was six years.
Below is an example of context that the WT leaves out. If a person got married whilst he was a slave and had children, he could go free in the 7th year but his wife and children would remain slaves. If he wanted to stay with his family then he would be a slave.
Forever.
Hmmm...either split up the family or be in slavery forever. Why don't the WT highlight that?
Exodus 21: 1-6
1 These are the judicial decisions that you are to convey to them:
2 “If you buy a Hebrew slave,+ he will serve as a slave for six years, but in the seventh year, he will be set free without paying anything.+ 3 If he came by himself, he will go out by himself. If he is the husband of a wife, then his wife must go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children will become her master’s, and he will go out by himself.+ 5 But if the slave should insist and say, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my sons; I do not want to be set free,’+ 6 his master must bring him before the true God. Then he will bring him up against the door or the doorpost, and his master will pierce his ear through with an awl, and he will be his slave for life.Not very nice is it?
They also leave out the next bit of Exodus 21:7-11.
Why do they? Maybe because if shows how a female:
- Could be sold into slavery by her Dad
- Wouldn't go free after 6 years
- Could be made a concubine (clue - for sex)
- Could be sold on
- Could be given to the master's son as a wife
- Could be taken by the master as another wife.
7 “If a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not go free the same way that a slave man does. 8 If her master is not pleased with her and he does not designate her as a concubine but causes her to be purchased by someone else,* he will not be entitled to sell her to foreigners, for he has betrayed her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he is to grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife for himself, the sustenance, the clothing, and the marriage due+ of the first wife are not to be diminished. 11 If he will not render these three things to her, then she is to go free without paying any money.
This is absolutely misogynistic. The girl (that's what we're talking about here - probably about your age A Believer) has no say about being sold into slavery, being made a concubine, sold on, given to his son, taken by the master as a wife.
This is wrong. We know that treating people like this is wrong. That's the context that is missing here.
Let's take a look at another statement in that article:
the kind of slavery practiced by God’s people in the Bible is not the cruel and abusive slavery that is envisioned by most people today
Another passage they didn't mention.
If you beat your slave and they die there and then, you get punished. But if you beat them and they die a few days later they are not to be avenged - why? Because the slave was brought with the owners money.
20. “If a man strikes his slave man or his slave girl with a stick and that one dies by his hand, that one must be avenged.+ 21 However, if he survives for one or two days, he is not to be avenged, because he is someone bought with his owner’s money.
This is utterley wrong for two reasons.
1. God is allowing beatings. This is acceptable to him. This is just wrong, wrong, wrong. Why is it that we're more imperfect than ever yet know beating a fellow human is wrong. But back then God didn't say beating a fellow human was wrong.
2. Beating someone and they subsequently die after a few days is ok...as they were bought with the owner's money.
Lastly, here's a cheery reminder of how some slaves were acquired by Israel.
By force.
10 “If you approach a city to fight against it, you should also announce to it terms of peace.+ 11 If it gives a peaceful answer to you and opens up to you, all the people found there will become yours for forced labor, and they will serve you.+ 12 But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead goes to war with you, you should besiege it, 13 and Jehovah your God will certainly give it into your hand, and you must strike down every male in it with the sword. 14 However, the women, the children, the livestock, and everything that is in the city, all its spoil, you may plunder for yourself,+ and you will eat the spoil of your enemies, which Jehovah your God has given to you.
So they can give this city 2 options.
Option 1:
Open the doors and be our forced labour voluntarily.
Option 2:
Besiege the city. Kill all males and take the women, children and livestoock as plunder.
So A Believer - still feel that the WT gives a balanced view of slavery with all the context?