You did just fine, dmouse. I assume, and hope, that your declination was done kindly, without irritation. Now do something special with her so that she will see that your rejection of falsehood is not a rejection of her.
COMF
Posts by COMF
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46Tonight's memorial - did you go?
by dmouse inmy wife has just left for the memorial.. just before she went she asked me to come...this was the second year in a row that i declined.
i hated seeing her so sad, i almost agreed to go just to cheer her up but that would betray her in a very real sense.
to go to the memorial would be an admission in her eyes (and other jws) that i still believe deep down that it is the truth.
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49
Who is an atheist here, just wondering?
by spectromize ini would like to know who is an atheist here and why you like to take part in discussions on this board?.
thanks for your replies.
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COMF
How long does a witness knock on a door before he determines that nobody is home? Is 45 years long enough?
myMichelle said:
if there is a god and he/she wants to get in touch with me, then he/she knows where I live and he/she can stop on by and chat
Exactly. I'm willing to be convinced. All he has to do is keep his word. Answer a prayer (it would have to be an old one, there aren't any new ones), give me knowledge, cause me to be aware of him, demonstrate that he does exist and cares enough about me to show it. Act like a father, in other words. Whenever he's ready; I'm not going anywhere. Until then, though: I have invested 45 years in crying out to him without ever getting an answer. That's enough. And please, don't regurgitate that tired old "maybe he answered you and you didn't like the answer" bullshit. That kind of reasoning is for people in headlong retreat from reality back to the comfortable familiarity of denial.
Idaho said:
But is it necessary to throw out the baby with the bathwater?
I carefully removed the water a drop at a time, examining and straining it, until I had emptied the tub. There was no baby.
COMF
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54
I'm a newbie too
by Flowerpetal ini just registered just today.
i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.
there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.
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COMF
The only thing remained was smoking. I could never figure this out. I think God left this piece of dirt on my exterior
Hey, good hook!
"Why do you smoke?"
"It's not my doing. Talk to God about it.""Why do you smoke?"
"If God wants me to smoke, who am I to resist the Lord's will?""Why do you smoke?"
"It's my punishment from God for being imperfect. I have to endure it in order to be refined.""Why do you smoke?"
"And it came about in the sixth year, in the sixth month, on the fifth day of the month, that I was sitting in my house and the older men were sitting before me, when the hand of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah fell upon me there. And I began to see, and look! a likeness similar to the appearance of fire."Victim-mentalized CO("it ain't my fault")MF
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COMF
http://members.aol.com:/glenmd66/stone4.psd
Psd... PhotoShop Drawing... is not the best choice of file format. Try stone4.jpg or stone4.gif.
COMF
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13
Official Intro/My Story....
by Sunchild inanyway, my name's rochelle.
i posted on h2o (and now here) as sunchild, everyone's favorite witness-turned-wiccan.
i think that i was looking for a surrogate family.
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COMF
Hi, 'Chelle,
your amused and detached view of people and events is always refreshing. Welcome!
COMF
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20
Evidence of "Independent Thinking"
by COMF inyou need some history to understand what i have to tell.
i have two grown sons.
son1 is single and a staunch jw whose goal for years has been to go to bethel and to become a missionary.
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COMF
You need some history to understand what I have to tell. Here it is:
I have two grown sons. Son1 is single and a staunch JW whose goal for years has been to go to Bethel and to become a missionary. Son2 is married and disfellowshipped. I am disassociated.When I left the org in 1988, it was because I had a 12-year backlog of cognitive dissonance built up in me and I couldn't stand the pressure any more. I still hadn't made the connection between all that was wrong, and the fact that they aren't what they claim to be. I just believed that there was something wrong with me personally that caused Jehovah not to help me, not to answer my prayers for understanding, strength and support. As a result, after I left I started on a downhill slide of heavy drinking that eventually turned into daily dependence on alcohol to anesthetize me enough to cope with the fact that I was a man who had ben rejected by God and had rejected him in return and was just waiting for inevitable annihilation.
In the last couple of years that Son1 lived with me, a lot of things happened that distanced us. A married sister in the hall, raised a JW and having raised her kids as JWs, left her husband of 17 years and we eventually moved in together, she bringing her kids with her and me mine. It was a bad matchup fueled solely by strong sexual attraction, and everybody was miserable. Son1 was trying to be a good witness, and you can imagine how he must have felt while attending meetings in that small community. When he graduated he immediately moved out of the house and to another town, and we lost contact for about four years.
Son2 got disfellowshipped at age 15 for smoking. He and I managed to maintain a better rapport than I did with Son1, because the morality thing wasn't as big an issue between us.
In January of 1996 I got into a substance abuse recovery program and started putting myself and my life back together. Shortly after that I found H2O online and gradually realized the truth about the organization. At that point I began trying to reestablish a relationship with Son1. I found him coolly receptive, wary but willing to talk and visit with me. He explained to me that the policy on shunning applies in spiritual matters, but doesn't mean that we can't associate as family. I didn't argue. :)
For the past four years I have maintained contact with him and occasionally we have gotten together. A couple of years ago He flew up with me to Washington for Son2's wedding, and a good time was had by all. That visit laid a foundation that we have been building on since, and we all have gotten together a couple of times since then. Although he visits and associates with us, Son1 has always put the JW aspect first, as you would expect any diehard JW to do. For example, here we have flown up to spend three days visiting his brother, with none of us having seen the others in about three years, and yet he goes to great lengths to spend half a day at a kingdom hall meeting.
Philosophical discussions of any length are generally unpleasant and tough on us all, because he carries the traditional JW views which make it hard for him to understand the importance of things that matter to us, and exasperates us as we try to cope with his tunnel vision. For example, when girlfriend Nickie's daughter got her masters degree in virology and started on toward her doctorate, I told him about it and commented proudly, "She's going to be the one who finds us a cure for AIDS." His reaction was, "Oh, well, whatever she thinks is important, I guess." This of course reflecting the JW view that God's kingdom will shortly rid the earth of AIDS and all other diseases and we should be spending our time telling others that good news instead of wasting in in such futility. So you can imagine that it's hard to cope, for all of us; I'm sure it's as tough on him trying to maintain connections with us as it is on us trying to maintain them with him.
I've learned not to argue with him about things. At the first reunion of the three of us I got irritated at some bit of JW idiocy he parroted about the last days, and I snapped irritably at him, "Son1, we are not living in the last days. You are going to grow old and die here in this system just as I am." He didn't say anything, but he looked at me with a look that spoke of how far I had fallen from true knowledge now that I didn't have Jehovah's spirit any more.
I realized then that I couldn't argue with him about his beliefs for fear of him withdrawing from us, so ever since I have taken a passive attitude. For example, on this last visit I took along pictures of their childhood and we went through them all with me telling stories of our lives back then, when they were too young to remember clearly. One picture showed me spoonfeeding Son1 in his high chair, and on a buffet beside us is an Indian sand painting from a reservation in Colorado. I commented that we burned the sand painting when we became witnesses. Son1 asked why, and I said, "It supposedly had religious significance, Son1. It's a Jehovah's Witness thing. If it's associated with 'false religion', you burn it."
He answered back, "Sounds like a personal thing to me." Denying the atmosphere in which I came into the organization, rejecting my firsthand experience, reflexively protecting the organization from the truth about itself. My reaction was simply, "Have it your way, son." Nothing more was said about it. This is the stance I have to take with him whenever he starts espousing his views. And believe, me, I have had some stressful moments biting my tongue and feeling my face flush red, fighting to keep quiet at some of the things he has said.
So! With all that background, now here's the story!
----------------------------------------------------Last weekend he flew to Washington with me to observe and celebrate my daughter-in-law's (DIL's) graduation from college with a bachelors degree in the double majors of Humanities and English. He's 26 now, and Son2 is 24; DIL is 25. They're all well into their adulthood, and for the first time I really saw evidence of their maturity, both in their speech and attitudes, and in their behavior. But what encouraged me the most in this whole trip, were the occasional things I saw and heard from Son1 that gave evidence that he has been doing some (shudder) independent thinking. Check this out:
On the first day we were together he told Son2 and I that he did not intend to go to a meeting Sunday. He figured he could easily make up for it some other time. This wasn't just missing the meeting due to inconvenience; he planned it that way.
At the university graduation, he became quiet and contemplative. I believe he was reflecting on the fact that DIL, one year his junior, had now completed a four-year course of study and was equipped to earn a substantial salary in the working world, while he had spent the same four years working low-pay, dead-end jobs in order to free himself to go in field service in the belief that for his sacrifice Jehovah would "open the floodgates of the Heavens until there was no more want." His struggles with finances, uninsured junk cars, unprincipled JW employers and rathole rented accomodations testify to the fallacy of that idea.
Also at the university, he kept noticing the goodlooking women. In fact, he also did this at the airport, at restaurants, and every public place we went to. He was so vocal about it that I finally asked him, "Son, are you having a major problem with your self-control, there?" To which he replied, "Dad, you guys get to do something about it. I just have to deal with the pressure."
Graduation day was also DIL's birthday. Son2 had rented a place for a combination graduation and birthday party. He explained this to Son1, stating there would be cake and presents, and said he would understand if Son1 didn't want to be there. Son1's choice was to attend anyway. We went in before starting time and arranged tables, set up the food and drinks, decorated with crepe paper and balloons, and helped a DJ set up his stuff on a stage at one end of the room. Son1 joined right in with all of this.
At this party, Son1 sat with me at a table with some of DIL's college professors, and engaged in a long conversation with one of them, a man who is from South Africa and teaches African Literature. I sat with my hands fisted up, tense and holding my breath, hoping he wouldn't bring up the supposed plight of JW's in African countries. Although the conversation went on for almost an hour, he never did bring it up. I was so relieved.
As a single brother, he gets around to a lot of witness gatherings, and over the years has become an excellent and versatile dancer. On into the night after a little wine had loosened the partygoers up a bit, he got out on the floor with a "worldly" chick and cut a rug, dancing salsa, swing, and other hotshot steps with her.
And perhaps the greatest thing of all: toward the end of our visit, when I guess the impact of DIL's academic accomplishement had had time to sink in with him, he and I eased our way into a discussion of higher education. He mumbled his way uncomfortably around the topic for a while, and finally acknowledged that he needed an education to prepare him for a serious profession. I said, "Well, if you're going to work an eight-hour day anyway, son, you might as well get paid a good salary for it."
He answered, "Yeah, that's right." At that point I repeated an offer I had made four or five times before, to give him financial assistance if he would go to college or a trade school. As before, he neither accepted nor rejected the offer. But he said, "I'm not sure about the information technology field... what does it take to become a programmer like you?" So we talked about that, and we talked about Cisco certification, and because he's good artistically and once had an interest in art, I brought up the possiblility of doing computer graphics, and also of doing something in the audio field. He listened quietly as I outlined some of the possibilities.
Well, there it is folks... the latest thing in my life that's giving me hope. It may come about that my entire family manages to escape safely from the horrible mistake I made 25 years ago when I plunged all of us into that unholy mess.
Millions now living may see it happen!
COMF
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26
BS Vacuum
by hippikon inwhy do so many substitute one type of bs for another.
as if there is a bullshit vacuum in the universe or something.
im referring to those that leave the jws and join or start something even more wacky.
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COMF
it seems to me that the majority of ExJWs belong in the agnostic/atheist 'class'.
Hmm... possible. Exposure to such extremes of deception, manipulation and putrefaction in a religion, and finding your way safely out of it, certainly prepares the mind for careful, unbiased examination and allows the inner eyes to open more readily to reality than does time spent in a lukewarm mainstream religion.
Having been completely destroyed in faith by the machinations of the borg, they are spiritually depressed and empty.
Aaaannnnkkk! Try again. Stepping off of that merry-go-round of constantly unfulfilled hopes, putting down the weight of continuous self-deception, the burden of maintaining an entirely one-sided relationship, you become free to accept and love yourself as you are. Having accomplished that, you are then free to accept and love the world around you and those in it. I am more spiritual now than ever before, and more at peace with myself and with the world around me than at any time before, during or after my 12-year stint as a witness (age 23 to 35).
Unconditional love. Christians talk about it... agnostics live it.
COMF
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Strange message " Christ is coming "....
by MacHislopp ini hope you never heard of this one.
in 1806, at leeds, a hen laid eggs bearing the words, "christ is coming.
" many visited the spot and "got religion.
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COMF
And suddenly the tearing point was reached. Her eyes staring, her lips parted. Morgana Rothschild sprang to her feet.
"I hear him," she cried. "I hear him."
"He's coming," shouted Sarojini Engels.
"Yes, he's coming, I hear him." Fifi Bradlaugh and Tom Kawaguchi rose simultaneously to their feet.
"Oh, oh, oh!" Joanna inarticulately testified.
"He's coming!" yelled Jim Bokanovsky.
The President leaned forward and, with a touch, released a delirium of cymbals and blown brass, a fever of tom-tomming.
"Oh, he's coming!" screamed Clara Deterding. "Aie!" and it was as though she were having her throat cut.
http://www.huxley.net/bnw/five.html
COMF
"Ford's in his flivver," murmured the D.H.C. "All's well with the world."
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Hello, and what is this place anyway?
by Seeker ingreetings all.. i decided to follow the recommendations and check this place out.
i'm curious, who runs this joint, and what are their rules of conduct.
i see fred hall posts here, so clearly apostates are welcome.. anyway, just saying: hey, y'all.. seeker (got my old handle back here)
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COMF
we're having a two-for-one sale...one mocking, plus an absolution for the same price
lol! Reminds me of a story I heard, where the Dean of the men's dorm at a university was delivering a welcoming speech to the freshmen of the fall class. "I want to make clear to you," he intoned soberly, "that after-hours visits to the women's dormitories will not go unpunished. A first offense will get you a $25 fine. A second offense will cost you $50, and a third offense will hit you to the tune of one hundred dollars!"
A voice from somewhere in the middle of the throng called out anonymously, "How much for a season pass?"
COMF
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56
Why I Think Its The Truth!
by normie67 inthis is normie thoughts on the threads about the truth..... i have huge doubts about a lot of things about the org.
i have been a jw for 20 yrs and still active(family reasons).
but nobody but nobody has refuted to my mind, the fact nobody does the evangelizing work jesus did.
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COMF
Sorry normie's thought and why I'm still in....I think???
Normie, it's your thought, man. If there's something wrong with it, change it. If there isn't, then keep it and don't apologize.
Look, man... if you want to take this one thing and think to yourself that it overrides all the other stuff, the lying and false prophecy and covering up child abuse and so on, so that you aren't forced to actually act upon your conscience, then go ahead man, think it. But if you bring it up for discussion in a forum like this, then you've gotta know that people are going to present opposing views. You knew that when you did it.
Sounds to me like you need somebody to convince you. Your insides are crying out for you to stop living a hypocritical life, but your head is trying to shush the voice with this crap about preaching.
It's called "cognitive dissonance." Looks to me like you have some work to do in your thought process. Good luck with it.
COMF