Posts by cabasilas

26

Penton's book is poorly referenced: Apocalypse Unsubstantiated!

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

of course it goes without saying that penton's apocalypse delayed is the best history of jehovah's witnesses we have (though timothy white's would be the best apart from its age), but i am continually frustrated by his lack of references for key claims.

here is an example where he is talking about reports of drinking in bethel:drinking, then, almost became part of the cult of machismo into which the new workers were quickly inducted.

old bible students such as clayton woodworth and olin moyle objected, and nathan knorr refused to go along with rum-running from canada.

cabasilas

I'd like to know when Timothy White's book A People For His Name will be republished. Anyone with news on that?

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

cabasilas

the UN clearly states that NGOs support the UN in accord with its own aims and purposes.

First off, this quote from the UN was not spoken of in connection with the DPI. Secondly, Mr Hoeffel and the DPI website clearly show otherwise. Perhaps you should contact him and ask him if your interpretation that NGOs can reject key parts of the UN Charter is correct. Perhaps it's time for the KKK to join up?

And BTW, it would be a good time for you to apologize to him for the false statements your site makes about him.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

cabasilas

Association with the DPI did not cause the WTS to lose their political neutrality.

Then, why when this matter was exposed did the Society say they felt they could not subscribe to the requirements and therefore ask for disassociation?

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

cabasilas

The Watchtower Society does not teach that the UN is the unclean thing at all and never has. This is a deliberate lie by apostates to make the Society look like a hypocrite, but they're hoping you will not check the facts yourself.

I think he meant "disgusting thing." Does the Society refer to the UN as "the disgusting thing"?

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

cabasilas

When the WT became associated with the DPI, despite what the UN may later say, the WTS did not agree to 'support' the UN.

"...may later say..."

There's NO evidence that the rules changed. Will you deal with page 7 of the 1994 brochure and the 1992 press releases on your site? And also the webpages from Internet Archive which shows what was posted on the UN/DPI site in 1995. Your presentation on your site says "apostates" are being deceptive by quoting the 2005 criteria. Looks to me you're not providing key information on your site which shows that the requirements did not change.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

cabasilas

Thanks for the kind words, jayhawk1.

Point of fact: the Guardian article appeared after the Watchtower Society requested disassociation from the DPI/UN. If one reads the thread I referred to earlier from 2001 you can see the build up of phone calls to the UN which led to the WT quitting their associated status. It was after this that the Guardian got involved.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

cabasilas

While the article definitely informs us about the UN, it certainly does not support or promote it as a viable world government. The only thing it seems to be promoting is Jehovah's Witnesses' free Bible study program. Oh, but yes, it certainly does point to a world government as the solution to Human Rights violations — but that government is God's Kingdom, not the United Nations in New York. As the Watchtower Society have quoted many times in relation to the efforts of human governments

The Watchtower Society was speaking with a forked tongue on this one. It had to produce some writing to fulfill it's associate status, which it did. Of course, there is no way it would state the UN was the government the world needed. But, did any of these articles state:

1) That the UN was the image of the wild beast of Revelation?

2) That the UN would destroy all religions?

That would not have been a wise thing for them to sumit to the DPI/UN, would it?

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

cabasilas

Your illustration has no resemblance to what happened in this case. To begin with, food and humanitarian aid would not be tied to "support of the UN." The WT Society agreed to aid the UN's publicity department to help "mobilize public support of the UN." There was no dire need for them to do this. I think it was a good move but it certainly contradicted some basic principles of Jehovah's Witness' teaching.

Let's recap:

1) Your website falsely states that the NGO criteria of association has changed over the years.

2) Your website omits the most damning proof about requirements to "support the UN" (page 7 of the 1994 brochure and the 1992 press releases) which show that the requirements basically stayed the same over this period.

3) It's pretty clear Watchtower representatives attended the NGO conferences. Are you really saying they had no idea what sort of group they were involved with?

4) Since you cannot substantiate your research you bear false witness against Mr Paul Hoeffel of the DPI and you've developed one of the most bizarre conspiracy theories I've ever seen claiming that he is trying to hide some "mistakes" in his letter on the UN site. You owe him a big apology. Do you think that your personal attack of Mr Hoeffel is a good witness to your religion?

5) You falsely state that the reason the WT quit its membership was due to a notification it received about the changed status. You omit the fact that the reason it quit was due to the exposure this was receiving here on JWD. I remember this as it happened back in 2001.

Your website needs a major overhaul.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

cabasilas

Actually, it's pretty clear the WT representatives attended that 1998 NGO conference on Human Rights:

alt

So, they went to the conferences when invited. I would hope that they used the time to make good contacts there for their concerns for Human Rights for their members. Thirdwitness, your arguments are that they just used their associate status for library priviledges and were ignorant of what all was involved. This is getting hard to believe. They weren't just using the library...don't you think they were networking too? But, to suggest they didn't know what was involved with their associated status is hard to believe.

BTW, the WT didn't quit membership as an associate of the DPI because of some sort of new audit. The scandal broke here on JWD first:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/10732/1.ashx

It was the resulting bad publicity that caused them to quit shortly thereafter.

597

Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness in

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/

cabasilas

One of the benefits of being associated with the DPI of the UN are the annual conferences. For example, the one in 1998 was on Human Rights:

http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/annualconfs/51/51ngoconf.html

Don't you think that representatives of the WT Society attended that one? I would have hoped so. Yet, Thirdwitness would have us think that the WT representatives were ignorant of the criteria for association all this time. Doesn't seem plausible to me.