tonight, i would have attended the memorial, if my witness daughter had asked me to go.
during the two previous yearly occasions, i was inactive, but i went with her because it seemed to mean a great deal to her.
she has either given up on me, or the event does not mean what it once did to her.. i was thinking about another memorial, one i would rather celebrate.
Wasasister:
I write this after dropping my wife off at her Memorial service. What you wrote touches me more than any religious service I've been to. Your mother sounds like a wonderful lady. I'll bet quite a bit of that she passed along to you.
Thanks for sharing. I'll raise a glass to your mom as well.
Peace, joy and blessings,
CPiolo
unfortunately, i'm not quite sure what my questions are.
my first post was in the "dating..." forum, if anyone's interested.. the biggest problem i have is my complete ignorance concerning jw's and their beliefs/ practices.
the research i've done has provided only polar opposite views, either jw is the way or it's a cult and it's wrong.
Tex:
Like many others, I would suggest going slow, slow in your relationship and slow in anything you might find out about the Watchtower that you might want to share with your girlfriend.
I am not a JW and didn't know much about them, even though I grew up 5 or 6 blocks from a Kingdom Hall, until I married someone who had been inactive for many years, and after marrying me, decided to return. As others have suggested, I would research not only the organization, but "cults" or "high control groups." In this way you can make up your own mind as to whether the WTB&TS is such a group or not. A good place to start would be Steven Hassan's website at: www.freedomofmind.com. Steve is a former Moonie who has dedicated his career to helping people involved in high control groups. He has a couple of books that are excellent in letting one know how to communicate with someone involved in such a group in a manner that doesn't set of alarms, triggering thought-stopping behaviour.
I also recommend going slow because you may find yourself questioning certain behavior and attitudes your girlfriend has. Your research will answer many of these questions, i.e. you girlfriends reluctance to share your relationship with those in the organization.
I wish you the best of luck. A relationship with a JW and a non-JW can be extremely trying and frustrating; more so I feel for the non-JW, but that may be just my personal prejudice. I cetainly wouldn't recommend such a relationship.
CPiolo
a bozo calling itself "shiningone" recently posted on the h2o board some typically bad arguments supposedly defending the bible.
i posted a rebuttal to a number of specific points, which is reproduced below.
guess what the response was.. those familiar with jw teaching will recognize some of the bad defensive arguments.. <hr>.
Jeffrey:
There are several Biblical canons depending on which religion or branch of Christianity one looks at:
<quote><i>Roman Catholics include fifteen more books or parts of books, and that is their canon; Greek Orthodox churches use most of these books, and these comprise their canon. The Jewish tradition is that of the Hebrew Bible only, of course, corresponding to the thirty-nine books of the Protestants. East Syrian Christians include fewer books than other Christians in the New Testament, while the Ethiopian churches use quite a few more books in both the Old Testament and New Testament.
The third American President, Thomas Jefferson, questioning the miracles of the New Testament while approving some of Jesus' moral sentiments, produced a thin volume which is called "The Jefferson Bible," edited literally with a razor and paste.[2]
One wonders, what is God's canon?</i></quote>
From an article by Larry A. Taylor here: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/larry_taylor/canon.html#fn1. I find it odd the JWs accept the Protestant canon as adapted from the Roman Catholic and Hebrew versions of the Old and New Testaments (Hebrew and Greek Scriptures) when supposedly apostacy had already infected these Christian churches long before the books to be canonized had been selected. Did not this apostacy affect their choices? Why do they accept the Jewish canon, again solidified after the formation of Christianity, and according to some, in response to the new competing religion? The Jewish canon is not the same as the Septuaguint that Christ would have been familiar with. Has the Watchtower ever looked at all extant Christian texts in an effort to see what "God's Organization" should include in its canon, including those recently discovered Gnostic texts? What about those texts that have been lost because one or another apostate Church didn't deem them sufficiently important to devote scripes to copy them? Does God work through apostates?
Just a few questions I have.
CPiolo
something just hit me.. you know how witnesses love to remind you that the early christian congregations had problems, sometimes even big problems, whenever modern day problems and inconsistancies are brought to their attention?.
as much as my gut and heart hate the glibness and triteness of that, it is difficult to argue against.
but i just thought of a key difference.
RedhorseWoman:
Why, let's face it....demons hang around at all of the spring yard sales and ride home in people's purchases.
LOL. Thanks, you just explained another phobia of my wife. Ah, the picture keeps getting clearer and clearer. Little by little I'm learning about all the ingrained fears, phobias, and prejudices instilled in my wife by the WT. It's certainly bittersweet. I can't help laughing at some of the preposterous things, while at the same time being profoundly sad for my wife.
Peace and blessings,
CPiolo
well someone had to do it, so it might as well be prim & proper prisca to do the honors in the sex forum...... .
this thread is for all newbies to introduce yourselves.
whatever you feel happy to reveal about yourself.
CurlyQT:
Thanks for sharing your story. It's heart-wrenching, but it appears you've got a good head on your shoulders, and someone who loves you. The fact that some of your siblings have seen through the manipulation and resumed contact is a blessing as well. I'm not a Witness, and so the shunning aspect of the religion is one of the most difficult to understand (that and refusing life-saving blood), as well as one of the most detestable. I wish you luck in the future and best wishes for your upcoming wedding.
Peace and blessings,
CPiolo
Edited by - CPiolo on 21 February 2001 11:27:50
well someone had to do it, so it might as well be prim & proper prisca to do the honors in the sex forum...... .
this thread is for all newbies to introduce yourselves.
whatever you feel happy to reveal about yourself.
I just wanted to thank all those that responded to my post: Larc's, RHW, Grunt, and Thinkers Wife. Your kind words and encouragement are a help. I have spent the past couple years investigating not only the WT, but the process of being indoctrinated into such groups, the effects this has upon the individual, and what can be done. As you almost all pointed out, it requires patience above all, love, kindess, and understanding. I do my best to try and be all those things. I don't always succeed, but I try, and I don't confront my wife about her religious beliefs anymore. There remains some anger, but it's pretty well under control.
Thanks again,
CPiolo
well someone had to do it, so it might as well be prim & proper prisca to do the honors in the sex forum...... .
this thread is for all newbies to introduce yourselves.
whatever you feel happy to reveal about yourself.
DannyBear:
Yeah, I've got myself quite a diemna. My biggest concern is for my son. I hope he doesn't get pulled in and indoctrinated by my wife. If he learns a bit about logic and reasoning, he should be out of danger. But, emotions are strange and powerful forces and have caused more than a few to ignore the logical and reasonable.
The saddest part, is my wife's beliefs, the atmosphere of confession, and her going to elders for advice about our relationship puts a big damper on what I share with her. It creates a distance between us that prevents our marriage being what I'd like it to be. If I were to be completely honest with her and she went to the elders, depending on who they are, and I really don't want to roll the dice at this moment, they could advise her to leave me or divorce me as a spiritual danger.
Basically, my wife is a very good person who tries her best to do what's right. The problem is she isn't allowed to follow her own conscience as to what that may be. It must come from the Faithful and Discreet Slave. She's kind, generous, and loving, and that makes up for much, but I still yearn for more -- someone whose ideas, thoughts, and point of view I respect (and not necessarily agree with). Unfortunately, I have to constantly put what ever she says through the WT filter to she if she's speaking or just parroting the party line.
Peace,
CPiolo
P.S. If you're able, could you enlighten me a bit as to why H2O lacks its previous luster. I haven't seen many posts by the logicians (AF, Farkel, COMF, etc.), although Norm has kept up his series of articles.
hi gang:.
just thought i'd say hello (another h2o alumni).
i posted a brief background in pricsilla's thread in the "sex" forum.. cheers,.
PeaceLoveHarmony:
Love the handle. Three of my favorite words that just about says it all, at least, what's important if we're all going to get along.
Thans for the welcome,
CPiolo
hi gang:.
just thought i'd say hello (another h2o alumni).
i posted a brief background in pricsilla's thread in the "sex" forum.. cheers,.
Hi gang:
Just thought I'd say hello (another H2O alumni). I posted a brief background in Pricsilla's thread in the "sex" forum.
Cheers,
CPiolo
well someone had to do it, so it might as well be prim & proper prisca to do the honors in the sex forum...... .
this thread is for all newbies to introduce yourselves.
whatever you feel happy to reveal about yourself.
Hello All:
I thought I’d throw my two cents in. I’m another refugee from H2O as well. What’s happened to the place since the move anyway? Seems the quality of the posts has taken a drastic dip.
Anyway, I’m not a JW, never have been, never will be. What’s my interest then? I’m married to one. When we met (in South America where I was working at the time), my then girlfriend wasn’t a JW, and had been inactive for 6-8 years. She let me know early on she’d been a Witness, but reassured me she wasn’t going to return. I probably should have run as fast as I could, but I was quite naive regarding Witness beliefs, even though I I had dated an unbaptized but active Witness before.
The relationship progressed, we married, had a child, and due to economics, moved to the U.S. Shortly thereafter, my wife returned to the organization. I made all the typical mistakes someone who isn’t intimately familiar with Witness beliefs could make -- pointed out logical fallacies, asked about the failed prophecies (I was in high school in 1975 and remember all the hullabaloo and the deriding jokes afterwards), past doctrines that had done others harm (the ban on vaccinations and organ transplants), and so on. Of course this hasn’t helped our relationship.
I continue to discuss and research the organization with the hope that someday my wife will see the light (and that’s not new light) and leave. As well, I maintain contact with a couple of others in the same situation. That way, we all have an understanding shoulder to cry on. My greatest difficulty has been accepting that my wife belongs to an organization that promotes intolerance of people like me and all my close friends and family (non-Witnesses). I’ve always had a difficult time with bigotry, but this is my first experience being the object of It by someone close to me. I don’t believe my wife sees this aspect of Witness belief, and I find this amazing as well; that an otherwise intelligent person could so easily ignore that her religion teaches that God is soon to destroy all her family and friends, apart from those new Witness acquaintances she has made, and that we are all bad associations, not to be trusted, not worthy of friendship, and to be avoided as much as possible if not trying to convert us.
I am a native Californian and we currently live in Southern California (I noticed a couple of other Californians as well). Anyway, I’ve ranted long enough.
Peace and blessings,
CPiolo
