Posts by sweetscholar

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

what I said was why would Jezebel apply ANY makeup on her face if it was not gonna be seen?????? it was not that Jehu and others down below was able to see HER, but had to be able to see HER MAKEUP, cuz otherwise what would have been thre freakin point of Jezebel appying anything on herself, AND TAKING THE TIME AND EFFORT TO DO THAT, if it was gonna be from such a high up distanc and not to be seen? UNLESS, here is the point, it was a lot of the stuff that was applied on her face by her ????????

that's what I meant by "logical inference". the passage does not have to say in those spelled out words "she put excessive amounts of eye paint" in order for someone to DEDUCE from OTHER things in the text and context and account and story that that's very likely if not definite what had to have happened !!!!

I said (and I'll repeat it again) that Jehu and others had to see, not just her herself, but her EYE PAINT too, if Jezebel applied onto herself, and knew that she was to be seen from that far a distance. HOW ELSE COUUUUUUULLLLDDD IT BE SEEN THEN if it was not gonna be somewhat excessive?

also, do you read anywhere that Jezebel was known for being balanced or moderate or reasonable??? (just a little side point that helps the case here.)

but again, if they could only see her makeup from that far a distance, how likely is is that the stuff on her face could even be noticed if it was applied lightly and moderately??

otherwise, AGAIN, what would have been even the point of her applying onto herself if she knew that it was very unlikely it would be seen from such a distance?? that would have made no real sense. unless a hefty amount was put on her eyes and face and whatever. then it's more likely to be seen from that distance.

aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaahhhhh

lol

ok? Almost. I like you, but you're driving me nuts now. lol

just get your butt back in that congregation and share your wisdom and knowledge in a nice way, and go back to the Hope set before us, Christ's Blood and His Kingdom.

Atheism is gloomy (even gloomier than Armageddon !!) and dismal. don't go to that. really.

and no, to answer your other question. you can't be an elder or bishop or deacon or servant or pioneer if you're known for blowing out pagan candles in self-honoring pagan festive junkish birthday celebrations. as well you should not be. not a good example.

when I said it's not the same as murder or rape or fraud or stealing that does not mean it's as good as praying, preaching, visiting the sick, or looking after orphans, or studying and practicing humility and kindness and love and patience from the Word of God. Biblical principles ARE being violated when birthday celebrations with their pagan junk are being observed. (Psalm 106; Jeremiah 10; Ezekiel 22; 1,2 Corinthians, etc)

and your constant harping on "eye paint" is a bit off the topic anyway. cuz even if you're right about "eye paint" being really demonic (which it really is not), that does not mean that birthday celebrations all of a sudden are not demonic.

your argument about "consistency" is well taken, but it falls flat if your "points" about "eye paint" begin to fall apart, given the real differences between "eye paint" as makeup and "adornment" in general, and birthday celebrations customs and crap.

they aint the same, Jack. though the comparison is better than the bonehead comparison of "pagans ate fruit too". but not the same anyway.

bye.

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

a bit inconsistent I see. Becka, didn't mean to offend you. but I should not have to watch my every syllable all the time either. don't be so thin-skinned. did you see how rude and "condescending" and non-sensical and irrelevent to the thread and truly "side-stepping" Jeff was??

but anyway, why were you "dying laughing" the other time? when I told that maniac Little Schmo off? (boy did that freak have that coming. but even so I apologized if I went off too far. though he is an apostate irrational unreasonable cockeyed lizard.)

I'm done with this thread pretty much. just about all that can be covered on this subject has been. If Jeffy wants to discuss the validity of the Watchtower he can do it on another forum thingy.

he accused me of "side-stepping" when in this whole damned THREAD I never did !!!! I addressed just about everything (maybe not to everyone's liking necessarily) that was to the subject. valid points, semi-valid, and totally invalid remarks I addressed. never "side-stepped" anything. but Jeff the Apostate is the one who side-stepped this topic into WT validity matters. which is not really relevant to the historical background and baggage and Biblical references and principles concerning birthday celebrations and all the junk that goes with them.

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

this thread is about the historical and Biblical and archeological data discouraging birthday celebrations for people CLAIMING or trying to be Biblical Christians and pure and holy and separated and sanctified.

not "is the WT God's Moutpiece today"

I'm not even specifically directly talking about the Watchtower, per se. but just the point of is Birthday celebrations formalized, with all its pagan trappings, baggage, and background, recommended for the pure untainted Bible-believing Christian. not whether the Watchtower is right in general about anything.

cuz I could theoretically have nothing to do with WT and still assert what I'm asserting based on history, encyclopedias, uncovered archeology, Biblical principles and data.

so your sorry rude arrogant retarded posting about another topic altogether, about the Watchtower's general validity, is what's really "side-stepping".

but the Devil is in a habit of accusing others of what he himself is guilty of. duhh.

go sidestep somewhere else, or create another thread about the Biblical Validity or INvalidity of the JW publishing arm if you want.

but try addressing the actual specific subject of this specific thread link posting site. well actually, I've said pretty much everything that needs to be said on this subject, from history, linguistics, archeology, Bible principles and Bible references.

anything beyond this is a waste of time now.

and as far as "BluesBrother"?? lol. if he thinks Little Brain is "rational" in his response??? birds of a feather. from England no less. how are the drunken brawls on the streets there? (no offense to the faithful JW Christian brothers that are there, but you know that worldly Brits have big problems)

and to Almost, yes there is SOME correlation with point 5, not with point 4, cuz you overblow or misapply "pagan origins", and vanity "no value" but you dismiss unreasonably the value and benefits of eye makeup. they are there. ask any woman who has wrinkles or bags I told you.

nuff said. ciao.

we've exhausted this topic.

I've written tons. addressing all the arguments, the valid ones, the semi-valid ones, and even the totally retarded invalid ones.

let's move on.

and again, Jeffy Weffy. go sidestep somewhere else. cuz that's what YOU just did. I was addressing each point that came to me on this thread. duhh. try doing the same

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

hi. I just saw your bigger posting. to address the "insults" thing you say I did. I can't believe that you would say that that was how I generally have been on this thread. that one posting was more an exception. if you look at previous postings of mine, I was NOT like that. and don't forget: Stephen and Elijah called apostates and pagans names, after having enough. so there's a balance. I still would not let Little Man die on the street if I saw him hurt. although I doubt he'd do the same for me. but don't forget how generally cordial and cool I've been (though pointed) in my many other postings on this thread.

now Jezebel had to be seen from far up, and obviously through logical inference, COME ON ALMOST !!!!, it had to be a big load of the stuff on her eyes. Jehu it's implied PLUS OTHERS FROM THE GROUND had to see her. so this "beautiful" is a general thing of what she was trying to do, with some results obviously. I dare say that a slut with heavy overdone makeup can look sexy and desirable and even "beauitful". even if it's overdone. it's not as black and white as you're making it, as far as 'well if she was made "beautiful" then it could not have been overdone'. no there are degrees. one thing is irrefutable is that she was to be seen FROM HER HIGH UP WINDOW. it would make no sense for her to put black eye paint on her eyes, with no intention of it being noticed or seeable. from high up, it would have to be more than just a mear smidgen.

those links are too kooky.

and your point is taken about out of print hard to find books, but that does not make them less documented. and let's not forget Protestants in general WANT to celebrate their birthdays. so how likely is it that many people or historians who even KNOW of the true origins and roots of all the trappings of birthday celebrations want to announce it so much in many reference works nowawdays? of course there's been an element of cover-up with that. but even with some cover-up in reference works here and there, the solid proof and truth of that matter and custom has still come out. you won't tell me that candles and wish-making and ETCETERA did not come from pagan Greece and Babylon, with superstitious guardian demons all over the place?

Wold Book Encyclopedia, you obviously got the wrong edition. we'll have to find out the exact year of that one. many come out. and again, it's not something that people who put those works together want to necessarily always publicize since you KNOW that people in general will celebrate their own birthdays, and how would that look? that the reference works they're putting together says "birthday celebrations were pagan and not Christian". but even so, the truth came out anyway. it has a way of coming out.

eye paint is personal and not necessarily 'every day'. but BD celebrations like clockwork (yes) are done chronically and annoyingly and even against a JW's wishes at work. surprise BD parties at work office for JWs, by co-workers, against the wishes of the JW. crap like that has happened. people have this thing about "oh it's his birthday, let's wish him happy whatever" all the time. people have this retarded hang-up FOR birthday parties. to the point of nausea even. yeah, the Devil has got the world at large pretty good, with vain pagan stumbling blocks.

anyway, Almost, we're going around in circles a wee bit now. your "eye paint" thing is better than "eating fruit" or "bathing" but not really that strong or valid ultimately.

you don't seem to understand either that Paul's words "adorn yourselves" DOES have to do with it !!!!!! cuz "adorn" covers all that stuff. not juts necklaces or robes. but anything worn by a woman.

and when I said that servants of Jehovah put make up on in general, and Job's daughter's name this, and archeological evidence uncovered the other, you say "they did something pagan". that's dogmatic of you, cuz you're going into the whole thing still convinced that it was really rooted in paganism, in the same exact or very similar way as BD celebrations customs. which it aint. despite those "evil eye" websites. stretch. "evil eye" with maybe eye paint ADOPTED into that is not quite the same.

it's too ambiguous and over-reaching and attempting to connect the dots with that.

the point too again is that if archeological evidence and Biblical evidence shows that God's people in Bible times used skin makeup then it's ok

BUT, conversely, if historical and Biblical evidence shows that God's people in Bible times never celebrated their birthdays formally (and with the principles against pagan corruption and customs), THEN IT'S NOT OK.

ciao.

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

hi. AlmostAtheist. I appreciate your last response. that's why, even though I have fundamental differences with you and a lot of your positions, at least you're like 100 times more reasonable and rational and honest than that mental case demonized nut, who calls himself "Little Toes".

maybe he didn't carefully read that YOU, a person who has serious doubts about this whole birthday thing, understands that Colossians 2 (which was referring to not keeping JEWISH feasts that God Himself commanded, unlike pagan Christmas) cannot be reasonably or honestly used as an alibi to keep pagan Christmas with all its DEFINITE junk and worldliness and paganism and corruption mixed and mingled in, or formal birthday celebrations. you understand that clear point, Almost. of course Little Fart does not want to agree with either you or me. at least not on that and a few other things. that's what happens when you try to directly communicate with a fool who has the IQ of an onion. whose wife or ex-wife called him a demon. no need for "collusion" with that. not when it's so obvious to see.

but anyway, Almost, I hope you look at all the words I wrote about your so-called proof that "eye paint" is so solidly definitively from witchcraft, the same solid undoubted way that the customs of birthday celebrations originate and "stem" and have real roots in. Paul said "adorn yourselves well arranged". he didn't say "don't adorn yourselves at all."

and there are things in the Bible (though not specifically with "eye paint" per se) that show servants of Jehovah doing themselves up and beautifying their skin and taking care of their hair and jewelry etc. in other words, along the same TYPE of lines.

but nowhere is any servant of Jehovah clearly formalizing his birthday with any celebration, in the Bible.

and again, you made this thing about "well the culture of the Jews". and I said a few times now that the culture of the Jews was inter-changeable with the RELIGION of the Jews. their culture was their religion. and their religion was their culture.

but other nations and peoples round about them, at the same time, had "culture" too. and they chronically celebrated their birthdays. as part of their pagan "culture." which is what Little Pagan Toes subscribes too ultimately. He's a disciple of Herod Antipas, and not of Christ Jesus. a follower of Alexander the "Great" (the bi-sexual Greek pagan maniac), not of Isaiah or Moses or of Paul the Apostle.

the website you quoted (an uptight hypocritical selective protestant website) and cited is somewhat weak, with quotes that are ambiguous and reckless. "it's said that it stemmed..."

the point is that there is too much evidence and historical data to PROVE beyond question (though Toe Brain "questions it" without saying why specifically or what honest sold grounds he has to "question it") that birthday celebration customs are corrupt and un-Biblical and worldly and warped and demonic and pagan and spiritistic and not just un-Scriptural but also ANTI-Biblical. that's not just conjecture. whereas the "eye paint" demonic origin notion is so conjecturish and flimsy it's like not funny. at least from what I can see so far.

etc. I wrote all this and more in previous posts, which please see in the previous pages too. if you have not done so.

again, though. I'm glad that you see that Colossians 2 and 1 Corinthians 2 have no honest bearing on pagan Christmas and/or pagan voodooistic birthday celebrations. Jewish feasts and holidays that were once sanctioned and commanded by God cannot be compared to pagan "Mother's Day" or "St Valentine's Day" or demonic "Halloween" or pagan bastardized hybrid warped corrupt "Christmas" Sun God Saturnalia and Tree worship day, or even pagan worldly birthday celebrations. and the context in Colossians shows that Paul was saying let no man judge you if you DON'T keep those Jewish feasts, not if you do !!!! so it's even less of a usable thing. duhh.

and 1 Corinthians is even more idiotic in a way. because it says that the SPIRITUAL man is not "judged" or "examined" by a worldly jerk on the outside really. but it doesn't mean that a spiritual true Christian cannot assess and discern what is righteous or wicked, pure or pagan. otherwise, why did Stephen call people like Little Schmo "hypcrites and vipers", if there is no "judging" or at least "assessing" the willfully ignorant and dishonest and hypocritical??

yes, Little Toe is a "demon" in a sense (or at least very demonized), and so are some of the other characters on here, who come out with weak silly nonsense remarks, like that schnuck who said "pagans ate fruit, so we're not to do that either" duhhhhh.

cuz of blatant dishonesty and and bonehead comparisons, in a pathetic attempt to justify their crap in their ungodly lives.

used as alibi for sin, or as a meager excuse for not shedding paganism or corruption.

"eating fruit" is what servants of Jehovah did too. but they NEVER celebrated their birthdays in a formalized cockeyed way in the Bible.

"eye paint" notwithstanding.

people in this corrupt cockeyed world will ultimately do what they WANT to do, not necessarily what the wisest and most honest thing is. and will believe what they WANT to believe, regardless of the true Biblical and historical data on any given subject. for emotional vain silly reasons usually. look at the state of the world. the world's a mess. because people generally do what they want, have Adamic sin nature, and dopey influences around them, and the Devil "misleading the entire inhabited earth." (Revelation 12)

and ignoring principles and points like in Psalm 106

Psalm 106:35,36:

"and they went mingling with the NATIONS,

and took up learning THEIR WORKS.

And they kept serving their IDOLS,

and these came to be a SNARE TO THEM."

(Psalm 106:35,36;

see Dueteronomy 32:17 also.)

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

again, mixing apples and oranges. it gets tiresome. there are clear scriptures that say clearly DO NOT MIX THE TRUE WITH THE FALSE. which is what pagan Christmas definitely is. that's not even a guess at all. all the trappings and junk and baggage (the tree from Egypt, and the date and day and saturnalia) mixed with God's Son is BIG no no for true Paul and Holy Spirit and Scripture following Christian. the fact that it's also a "birthday" situation of course doesn't help at all. but the paganism and demonism and nonsense (as well as the fact that commemorating Christ's Birth in GENERAL has no sanction or warrant or command in Scripture) is atrocious in the pagan Christmas celebration. the worldliness, and corruption, and commercialism and heathenism is like crazy all over the place.

and to constantly use as an alibi (well little kids don't look at that way, things lose their meaning, blah blah) is not a notion that you see in Scripture. to compare the elaborate FESTIVAL and paganism of corrupt worldly un-Biblical "Chrstmas" with duhh "pinatas" which is not a yearly thing or something that would even ever come up with most people in life is so retarded.

to show just how bad human nature is and why such a thing as "Armageddon" coming ("just like the days of Noah") is when you see rationalizing BD celebrations because "well pagans also ate apples and urinated and took baths" braindead comparisons. pinata is not even in the same universe as pagan Christmas. the date right off the bat puts the Christmas partier in rough shape. a pagan date for a pagan sun god. mixed with Christ's supposed "birthday". read "what does Christ have to do with idols?" and "mix not the true with the false" "table of the Lord with the table of demons" even if it's done IGNORANTLY !!!! that's not an alibi for the ignorance to continue.

'touch not the unclean thing'. yes it IS and not just was "unclean" and pagan and corrupt. "and be ye separate". but instead, Catholics and Protestants and "Orthodox" and atheists and agnostics and whatever MIX in the world and its vain pagan un-Scriptural crap.

with self-justifications galore. (Jeremiah 17)

emotionalism and peer pressure being big reasons for it. though many will deny that. but it becomes obvious after a while.

why do things that are so unbelievably questionable and with unclean un-Biblical mixture and background? when the Bible (both "Testaments") says not to do that kind of thing? the PRINCIPLES ARE THERE. written aforetime for our time FOUR OUR INSTRUCTION" (Romans 15) TREE WORSHIP does not have to intentional per se, to be idolatrous in God's eyes anyway. or in the Bible's eyes. bowing before trees for gifts and "DECKING IT" (like Jeremiah 10 says the worldly pagan vain "nations" do) even UNWITTINGLY is still unholy and unclean and verily corrupt. wake up. just because you're so tradition-entrenched, and like it, does not make it right or Biblical. if you don't care to be so very very "Biblica" or "narrow-pathed" then at least admit it. but don't pretend to be a true sanctified Biblical Christian, then do dozens of thing that the Holy Bible in principle of not outright condemns. and not care one way or the other.

using worn out alibis. of "oh it's not looked at that way today". or "pagans ate fruit too" duhh. or "the Bible does not specifically forbid it" when the Bible DOES forbid the types of things that go on with mixing the true and false.

take a look at 1,2 Corinthians; Jeremiah 10; Isaiah 34; Ezekiel 20-40 "dungy idols in their hearts to trap them" and Revelation 9.

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

hi. glad you got a kick out of all that. but one other point that has been raised both by Little Common Sense Toe Man and others is this oft used and mis-applied scripture of "judge no man" 1 Corinthians 2:15. FIRST OF ALL. that's not really the scripture. and it's "examines" more accurately or "discerned" not really "judge". "judge" is a word that can be used, but "examine" or "discern" really gives the better thought. but that's minor.

the real verse in question is Colossians 2:16 "let no man judge you in respect to...festivals or new mons or sabbaths". totally mis-applied to support the notion that pagan Christmas and holidays are ok, and also birthday celebrations and if you read the entire true context it shows that it's a mis-application A) because it's talking about Jewish festivals and holy days THAT GOD SANCTIONED AND COMMANDED AT ONE TIME. NOT to pagan sun god demonic nationalistic un-Biblical "days" and feasts, B) it saying not to "judge you if YOU DON'T observe those Jewish days, not if you do." saying that those Jewish things were a shadow of Christ to come.

and as far as 1 Corinthians 2:15 of "judging or examined by no man", how does "and context" help the pagan demonic hot air customed birthday celebration out ? things are spiritually discerned or examined. it says, in context, that the true spiritual man is not "judged". it didn't say "judge no man". it doesn't read that way. so ripping things out of context like the Devil did with Jesus (Luke 4) won't help anything. it says SPIRITUAL CHRISTIANS are not judged by the outside world in that sense. but not "men in general". but true "spiritual men" which Little Toes is not. just in case, you, AlmostAtheist, also bring verses like that up sometimes. cuz I think you have.

both Colossians 2 and 1 Corinthians 2 have nothing to do with giving a free pass to pagan sun god observers cuz that has nothing to do with Jewish holidays that God once DID command, and "spiritual men" are not "judged" or "examined" in that sense, not pagan creepo rebellious childrend of disobedience, and worldly unbelievers. and "false Christians", as Christ said that MANY (not just a few isolated) would claim to follow Him and to be 'Christians' but would really not be. not really on that "narrow road to life". (Matthew 7; Luke 6) we need to be careful with those things. not reckless or emotional or stubborn or willfully blind, and "mingling with the nations and their works" (Psalm 106), and "not leaning upon our own emotions and understanding." (Proverbs 3:5,6)

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

after this I will not address anything you say, Little Toe, cuz you're obviously unreasonable. (never mind "unreadable") what was so "unreadable"? I even made the letters bigger for a blind bat like you to be able to read better.

you wanna use "ad hominems" and retarded sarcastic blatant insults on me? well ok. I don't want to stoop to your dopey level. but I'll do a Stephen on you in this posting, you deranged idiot. I'll make an exception this time. cuz you're obviously hopeless. (and to everyone else reading this, I'm usually not quite this way. so take it with a grain of salt.)

you say "some greek guy"? wow, what a careful scholar and reader you are.

ok, the gloves come off and this is addressed only to YOU here, not anyone else. YOU'RE A COCKEYED NUT THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE SENSE GOD GAVE A BRASS MONKEY.

I cited and quoted a number of things that had nothing to do, you nit wit, with "some greek guy." that's why you're a blockhead who can't grasp simple English. I suggest you go back to high school and take remedial English, cuz you can't read very well.

did you really read everything in that last posting???? I mean for real? everything? carefully?? what is the "mental issue" cuz I simply answered and thoroughly outlined the HARD CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE THAT YOU "QUESTION" WHICH IS NOT TO BE EVEN REMOTELY COMPARED TO THE FLIMSY CONJECTURE WITH "EYE PAINT"??

what was so hard about that or so "mental breakdown"?? I can easily say that you're the one with the serious brain issues, cuz all you've done with me is be rude and derisive and dismissive and cockey and arrogant. if you read all my postings from the beginning on this thread, I was basically cordial yet straightforward. in THIS posting, I'm just letting you have it. why? cuz you aint just some ignorant ordinary type I just met on the street, but a demonized nut and apostate creep who should KNOW BETTER !!! Stephen called them "snakes and hypocrites". (Acts 7,8) Christ called them 'sons of hell (Gehenna)' and "white-washed graves full of corruption and death" and "sons of Satan", and Paul called them "false apostles" and "ministers of Satan" and so forth. heretics to be cast away. you're in a different category. with your outrageous venom and stupidity and stubbornness, and deliberate lack of comprehension.

you "question it"? question what??? in what sense? how exactly are you 'questioning' it? based on what do you arrogantly schmuckishly rudely idioticalloy "question it"? what leg do you have to "question" the references and hard historical data and archeology on any of this? because you just want to?? duhh.

I did not write

World Book Encyclopedia or The History of the Christian Religion and Chruch, During the First Three Centuries or "The Imperial Bible Dictionary " or "The Lore of Birthdays". and a host of other reputable documented backed- up reference sources on the subject.

what's to honestly "question"? huh, Little Toe? question what per se?? it is what it is. then you tell me, genius. where did the cake, candles, wish-making, and the whole elaborate commemorating and junk stem and originate from? out of nowhere? from your great grandmother? yeah, whatever. you silly blind monkey brain. (Act 7) IT'S NOT JUST "SOME GREEK GUY." I did not say "some greek guy" this that or the other. duhh. why not grow a brain already, or grow some objectivity and some sanity, you apostate dumbbell. (again, I don't normally go off this much, but for a deranged creep like Little Toe, I'll make this first and last exception, on this thread.)

do you even know how to comprehend anything?

you ask dumb arrogant retarded questions. not asked in sincerity. especially since the issue and points and questions was already basically covered:

look at this crap that you wrote:

Further, just because some greek guy thought it was a nice idea and his "goddess" might like a pretty candle, why does that make it demonic? Why doesn't it merely make it humanistic with a dash of anthropomorphization?

AHH, GENIUS, BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS THAT IT'S DEMONIC. "table of demons" said the Bible, not JWs or me. (1 Corinthians 10:20,21) and what was that in context of? mixing the true and the false and what the what? NATIONS sacrifice and commemorate.

"The things that THE NATIONS (people in general throughout the silly world) sacrifice they sacrifice to DEMONS (Little Brain, did you get that? did you read that? is the elmer's glue still smeared all over your cataracts?) AND NOT TO GOD. and I do not want you to become sharers with the DEMONS."

(see also Deuteronomy 32:17; also

Psalm 106:35,36:

"and they went mingling with the NATIONS,

and took up learning THEIR WORKS.

And they kept serving their IDOLS,

and these came to be a SNARE TO THEM."

(Psalm 106:35,36)

again, Einstein, the BIBLE says it's demonic and idolatrous, if witchcraft and mystical superstitious and magical customs are there. that pagan NATIONS came up with. again, for a stubborn apostate schmuck like you, NO AMOUNT OF BIBLICAL REFERENCES, PASSAGES, PRINCIPLES, AND SOLID HISTORICAL DATA will convince the heretical and emotional and stubborn.

The Bible also says that "stubbornness is as the sin of witchcraft and rebelliousness (or Korah-like apostasy) is as necromancy or the use of uncanny power", (1 Samuel 15:23) so guess what that makes you.

also. spaces or paragraphs whatever. pick at that too. whatever. it is what it is.

World Book Encyclopedia is not "some greek guy." get new glasses or something. or better yet get a new brain. or even better yet. get a new heart. your present heart is so wicked and desperate and foolish and apostate and corrupt, no cardiologist could save it. you need a whole new heart transplant. that only the Lord could provide. but, too bad, your worldly rebellious unreasonable crap prevents you from any of that. and the same is true for about 90% of the characters that visit this website.

again, one more time to the slow Little Toe Brains. IT'S NOT JUST SOME LITTLE GREEK GUY SAID. read all the references a bit more carefully. and they aint just "some greek guy". and they're only a sampling of the proof out there. that outstrips any supposed conjectures about "eye paint" with supposed actual witchcraft ties. again, this is most likely my last addressing to you. I'll still dialogue with Almost Atheist, although he too is "almost gone" in my book also. but I'd much rather deal with him, cuz at least he's cordial and civil and can read 5th grade English much better. so if you do perchance get addressed by me ("if) it would only be indirectly, with a posting directed to Almost Atheist or maybe somebody else. good day.

(ps. sorry if I was way too blunt with mr toe man. and may God forgive me if my "name-calling" was too strong or over the top. but rather than whining about my "tone" or "name-calling" in this posting, try understanding and addressing and seeing the actual points made here. and don't overlook the FACT that I've been extremely cordial and patient and polite throughout most of this thread, in my postings before. but I'm only human. and I had enough of Little Toe Face and of his lame sarcastic non-scholastic non-intelligent emotional insane non-comprehensive remarks and jabs and sillinness. I'm only imperfect human. but again, remember too, to balance it out, that Paul, Stephen, Elijah, Moses, and Christ called them names too. very strong cutting insulting blunt things. cuz the people they told off were just too far gone also. And those Servants of Jehovah had enough of them and their crap. (READ: Acts 7; Matthew 23; John 8; 2 Corinthians 11; 1 Kings 18; Deuteronomy 9 to see what names they called apostates and heretics and corrupt arrogant unrepentant pagans.)

POST POST SCRIPT. again, one last time, to repeat to a guy who apparently needs it to sink in, though it probably still won't. IT'S NOT JUST SOME LITTLE GREEK GUY SAID. read all the references a bit more carefully. and they aint just "some greek guy". and they're only a sampling of the proof out there. that outstrips any supposed conjectures about "eye paint" with supposed actual witchcraft ties.)

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

Dec 13, 2005

Post 83 of 83
since 20-Nov-05

either you, Little Toe, do not read carefully, or don't believe (cuz of not wanting to believe) what you've red. I did not "undermine" anything, because I stated and PROVED that there is solid undeniable evidence and documentation to show that birthday celebrations UNQUESTIONABLY have pagan demonic baggage and even ROOTS. check these sources:

The History of the Christian Religion and Chruch, During the First Three Centuries (New York, 1848) Augustus Neander (translated by Henry John Rose), page 140

"The notion of a birthday festival was far from the ideas of the Christians of this period in general."

"The Imperial Bible Dictionary" (London, 1874), edited by Patrick Fairbairn, Vol. I, p. 225

"The...Hebrews looked on the celebratoin of birthdays as a part of idolatrous worship (such is never clearly stated by Hebrews of "eye paint",--for AlmostAtheist and Little Toe),

"a view which would be abundantly confirmed by what they saw of the common OBSERVANCES associated with these days."

"The Lore of Birthdays" (New York, 1952), Ralph and Adelin Linton, pages 8, 18-20

"The Greeks believed that everyone ha da protective spirit or daemon who attended his birth and watched over him in life. This spirit had a mystic relation with the god on whose birthday the individual was born. The Romans also subscribed to this idea....This notion was CARRIED DOWN ("carried down": can we say "tradition", that makes God's Word void) in human belief and is reflected in the guardian angel, the fairy godmother adn the patron saint...The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with the Greeks....Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]....Birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes....Lighted tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic significance ever since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune....Birthday greetings and wishes for happiness are an intrinsic part of this holiday....Originally the idea was rooted in magic....Birthday greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day."

"The World Book Encyclopedia" (Volume 3, page 416)

"The early Christians did not celebrate His [Christ’s] birth because they considered the celebration of anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom."

not my own words, or the words of the WatchTower. there's SO much more documented stuff on it. this is just a sampling. none of which is supposition or conjecture. and it goes way before "Druids" too. Druids also concocted the Halloween demonic nonsense. by the way.

so again, to Little Toe. you don't read all that comprehensively I've noticed. I said clearly and cited things in other postings that DO show hard solid proof of the TRUE pagan demonic origins and roots of birthday celebration customs. such hard proof is really lacking (though AlmostAtheist and silly protestant web sites that he quotes rave) for "eye paint."

I'm not really convinced (yet) that you'll find the same solid proof and documentation per se against "eye paint" and solid evidence of its true actual origin, in the sense of "it was originally invented for witchcraft and warding off evil spirits". you don't really find hard evidence for that. but cakes with candles and "making a wish". well just who is the birthday boy making a wish to anyway? to Jehovah?? to Christ? to the Fairy God Mother? to the Tooth Fairy? to Santa Clause (a pagan goofball right there). to Isis? where is that in the Bible? to go around idolizing and praying before candles in solemn offering? with a cake? to celebrate and glorify a silly vain imperfect human creature? there's wayyyyyyyyyy more solid evidence proving the demonic background of birthdays than with "eye paint". did you get it this time, Mr Little Toe?? did you read it this time? so no. you do what you've done similarly with your other cockeyed postings and rationalizations and silly desperate emotionalisms. you don't read carefully and use lame-brain comparisons to justfify yourself and to use as an alibi to sin and do questionable things.

and that's the problem with talking to apostates after a while. about 90% of the time it's just a fruitless venture. they are stubborn and hardened and worldly and rebellious and "Korah-like" (Numbers 16; Jude 11,12)

again to reiterate. BD celebrations are not quite as bad as rape or murder. no kidding. I never said or implied that they were. I say, and history and archeology and the Bible indicate, that it's QUESTIONABLE AND NOT TO BE RECOMMENDED for the truly separated and sanctified and Bible following God serving Christian. atheists, nominal "Christians", agnostics, humanists, secularists, hypocrites, and just general worldly fools will not really care much about "works and customs of darkness, paganism, demonism, or bonehead vanity." but JWs are not those things. they are true Bible-believing Bible-following (though obviously not perfect every minute) separated NOT-of-this-pagan-corrupt-world sanctified Christians and pure witnesses of the Lord Almighty. though that "they ate fruit" guy rave. though Little Toe rave. all in a pathetic attempt to justify their paganism, corruption, worldiness, and human nature heart is treacherous emotionalism. "there exists a way that seems right to a man; but the ways of death are the end of it afterward. (Proverbs 14:12)

(also, to AlmostAtheist, make sure to check my other postings today, that are on the previous page, if you haven't already done so.) I hope that's clear enough. even for those with a lot of paste smeared on their eyes. (see Isaiah 6:10; Matthew 13:14,15; and "dull in your hearing" Hebrews 5:11)

173

Birthday celebrations and customs - Are they for Christians?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i sent my birthday document (http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html) to a poster here that is at the very least a jw-sympathizer, if not a full-blown jw.

the response i got back indicated that my reasoning on it was seriously flawed and essentially any idiot with a passing knowledge of scripture and history can tell that birthdays are not something christians should celebrate.. of course, if you're not a bible-believer or a god-believer, you couldn't care less about pagan origins and all that.

but let's keep this conversation on the 'appropriate for christians' vein.

sweetscholar

either you, Little Toe, do not read carefully, or don't believe (cuz of not wanting to believe) what you've red. I did not "undermine" anything, because I stated and PROVED that there is solid undeniable evidence and documentation to show that birthday celebrations UNQUESTIONABLY have pagan demonic baggage and even ROOTS. check these sources:

The History of the Christian Religion and Chruch, During the First Three Centuries (New York, 1848) Augustus Neander (translated by Henry John Rose), page 140

"The notion of a birthday festival was far from the ideas of the Christians of this period in general."

"The Imperial Bible Dictionary" (London, 1874), edited by Patrick Fairbairn, Vol. I, p. 225

"The...Hebrews looked on the celebratoin of birthdays as a part of idolatrous worship (such is never clearly stated by Hebrews of "eye paint",--for AlmostAtheist and Little Toe),
"a view which would be abundantly confirmed by what they saw of the common OBSERVANCES associated with these days."

"The Lore of Birthdays" (New York, 1952), Ralph and Adelin Linton, pages 8, 18-20

"The Greeks believed that everyone ha da protective spirit or daemon who attended his birth and watched over him in life. This spirit had a mystic relation with the god on whose birthday the individual was born. The Romans also subscribed to this idea....This notion was CARRIED DOWN ("carried down": can we say "tradition", that makes God's Word void) in human belief and is reflected in the guardian angel, the fairy godmother adn the patron saint...The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with the Greeks....Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]....Birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes....Lighted tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic significance ever since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune....Birthday greetings and wishes for happiness are an intrinsic part of this holiday....Originally the idea was rooted in magic....Birthday greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day."

"The World Book Encyclopedia" (Volume 3, page 416)

"The early Christians did not celebrate His [Christ’s] birth because they considered the celebration of anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom."

not my own words, or the words of the WatchTower. there's SO much more documented stuff on it. this is just a sampling. none of which is supposition or conjecture. and it goes way before "Druids" too. Druids also concocted the Halloween demonic nonsense. by the way.

so again, to Little Toe. you don't read all that comprehensively I've noticed. I said clearly and cited things in other postings that DO show hard solid proof of the TRUE pagan demonic origins and roots of birthday celebration customs. such hard proof is really lacking (though AlmostAtheist and silly protestant web sites that he quotes rave) for "eye paint."

I'm not really convinced (yet) that you'll find the same solid proof and documentation per se against "eye paint" and solid evidence of its true actual origin, in the sense of "it was originally invented for witchcraft and warding off evil spirits". you don't really find hard evidence for that. but cakes with candles and "making a wish". well just who is the birthday boy making a wish to anyway? to Jehovah?? to Christ? to the Fairy God Mother? to the Tooth Fairy? to Santa Clause (a pagan goofball right there). to Isis? where is that in the Bible? to go around idolizing and praying before candles in solemn offering? with a cake? to celebrate and glorify a silly vain imperfect human creature? there's wayyyyyyyyyy more solid evidence proving the demonic background of birthdays than with "eye paint". did you get it this time, Mr Little Toe?? did you read it this time? so no. you do what you've done similarly with your other cockeyed postings and rationalizations and silly desperate emotionalisms. you don't read carefully and use lame-brain comparisons to justfify yourself and to use as an alibi to sin and do questionable things.

and that's the problem with talking to apostates after a while. about 90% of the time it's just a fruitless venture. they are stubborn and hardened and worldly and rebellious and "Korah-like" (Numbers 16; Jude 11,12)

again to reiterate. BD celebrations are not quite as bad as rape or murder. no kidding. I never said or implied that they were. I say, and history and archeology and the Bible indicate, that it's QUESTIONABLE AND NOT TO BE RECOMMENDED for the truly separated and sanctified and Bible following God serving Christian. atheists, nominal "Christians", agnostics, humanists, secularists, hypocrites, and just general worldly fools will not really care much about "works and customs of darkness, paganism, demonism, or bonehead vanity." but JWs are not those things. they are true Bible-believing Bible-following (though obviously not perfect every minute) separated NOT-of-this-pagan-corrupt-world sanctified Christians and pure witnesses of the Lord Almighty. though that "they ate fruit" guy rave. though Little Toe rave. all in a pathetic attempt to justify their paganism, corruption, worldiness, and human nature heart is treacherous emotionalism. "there exists a way that seems right to a man; but the ways of death are the end of it afterward. (Proverbs 14:12)

I hope that's clear enough. even for those with a lot of paste smeared on their eyes. (see Isaiah 6:10; Matthew 13:14,15; and "dull in your hearing" Hebrews 5:11)