i know this is slightly off-topic but i find alot of the discussion here somewhat depressing and most of it is far too cerebral for me.
i (obviously) live in america and i'm a big fan of beer.
light, dark, lager, ale, whatever.
Ever hear about the three brewery executives at the convention? One from Miller, one from Bud and one from Guiness.
They all went to the hotel bar. The bartender took their orders. The Bud VP ordered a Budweiser, the Miller VP ordered a Miller High Life. When he got to the Guiness VP he said, "I'll have a coke". "A coke?" asked his companions. "Yeah", he said "If no body else is going to have a beer I won't either".
it is easy to get too curious and fall in.
you might wander around down there for years, have a family, make friends.
then you will find it is hard to get out.
mjarka911, exactamundo! You put it perfectly.
it is easy to get too curious and fall in.
you might wander around down there for years, have a family, make friends.
then you will find it is hard to get out.
Honestly, Bebu, if you compare my thumbnail sketch of the Christian dogma with the apostles creed, other than my irreverent phraseology, it is almost identical. So, back to what I said. It is really not the "map" of how to live ones life that draws people to Christianity as much as it is the supernatural belief in this entire ransom sacrifice scenario. By the way, we haven't even mentioned the Satan character in all this.
Respect? Of course I respect your belief. But I don't believe it and that's what we're discussing here. I have been to this point in the conversation before and this is where rationality leaves the discussion and we get to the "God said it, I believe it, and that settles it!" phase. Fine. But, remember, no matter how fervently you and millions of others believe, you cannot produce enough proof to offset the weight of. a small bit of goosedown. Faith, indeed.
it is easy to get too curious and fall in.
you might wander around down there for years, have a family, make friends.
then you will find it is hard to get out.
Thanks for you input Bebu. Yes, religion can provide a map. On another thread recently the point was discussed that for some people, getting religion, any religion, is a life saver for them. I know of examples where this was a fact.
My contention is that religion does not hold an exclusive on the basic principles, or guidelines, of living a fulfilling, useful and moral life. But many religions, JWs being one, ultimately claim that only their way is the correct way to live ones life. In other words, if Mother Teresa was alive at Armageddon she would be destroyed by Jehoober the same as Larry Flynt. Fundy Pentacostals are sure she is burning in hell right now, etc.
No, the real element of religion that attracts you and others to it is not the map, it is the supernatural aspect of it. You are a Christian. Many atheists live as morally 'good' as you do. But the real difference is they don't buy the "man sinned, God came to earth through Marys womb, got himself crucified (had to shed blood, part of the deal) to satisfy (pay) himself (or his father?) for the 4000 yr old offense Adam committed, then only be dead less than three days, go back up to heaven, then set back and watch to see how many of his children would figure out and accept all this so he could reward them with either (here it gets into different religions franchise technicalities) life in heaven after they go ahead and die a miserable death, or get to live forever as living breathing eating pooping creatures after He kills off the dummies that didn't get it figured out or maybe they just go to hell and burn in torment forever. etc etc etc.
You call it faith, I call it gullibility. No problem, we can still be friends!
i'm finding it very difficult not to hate those still in.. my wife says i hate the religion but shouldn't hate the individuals.. i think she's correct but it's getting more and more difficult not to show my feelings of anger and hatred.. the thing is i was one of them for 30 years so i should have more patience, respect and sympathy.. i think they fall into two camps.
1 deluded.
2 self deluded.
When you let your thoughts take a little trip into hate, you are, in effect, giving the object of your hate control of your brain for that moment. Better to settle it internally once and for all, then when you have a reason to bring it up (like so many of us do here) it is under our control, we are much more effective and it doesn't cost as much rise in blood pressure.
it is easy to get too curious and fall in.
you might wander around down there for years, have a family, make friends.
then you will find it is hard to get out.
Not sure what your point is, Double edge. Generalizing? As far as quoting 1 Thess. I not sure I get the application. Of course, with me, you might as well quote last Sundays Dilbert strip. I spent about 30 years of my life with little short, snappy Bible quotes being used to jerk me around. I'm over that.
could be anyone, osama bin laden, oj simpson, pat robertson, someone who personally hurt you or your family, anyone at all.
would you pull the trigger, throw the switch, etc, which would end someones life?
would it make a difference if no one would ever know, versus everyone knowing?
Absolutely. No problem. The piece of garbage that abducted the little girl in Florida last year. After abusing her he buried her alive. I would consider it a duty to kill him with an axe handle. I would probably have to stand in line for the priviledge.
it is easy to get too curious and fall in.
you might wander around down there for years, have a family, make friends.
then you will find it is hard to get out.
Religion, Hobbies, Clubs, Philosophies, etc ... sometimes though, in a world that is rough, you have to hide in the trenches to get by or you might get you head blown off.
Yeah, you could add drugs, booze, promiscuity, etc. but I think Religion is a particularly sinister hole. Many people get their heads blown off in that hole.
it is easy to get too curious and fall in.
you might wander around down there for years, have a family, make friends.
then you will find it is hard to get out.
Skeptic2, Thanks, I'm flattered. Feel free to quote me. (Standard 5% royalty applies)
it is easy to get too curious and fall in.
you might wander around down there for years, have a family, make friends.
then you will find it is hard to get out.
It is easy to get too curious and fall in. You might wander around down there for years, have a family, make friends. Then you will find it is hard to get out.
Someone once said, "Religion is a Snare and a Racket" Remember, a snare is always baited with something to attract the prey.
Religion is organized superstition. It packages up all the answers to lifes perplexing questions and gives them to you on a platter, no muss no fuss, just have "faith" and, very important, try to act like a sheep. Sheep don't even know or care if they're in a hole.
"People" invent and operate religions. They decide what all the answers are and feed them to other people. The people who run the religion are just like other people, they eat, poop, have bad breath, get toothaches, etc.
