Posts by Desino

9

LATEST STATISTICS

by Raphael in

any one know what the latest statistics are i.e worldwide report 2006 ?

Desino

Ticker

I heard that 50.000 left WT organization in 2004. Either voluntary or disfellowshipped.

1

Have You Hear The Number who Left?

by Desino in

at a jw assembly last year in europe, i heard that 50.000 worldwide had left the watchtower organization of various reasons.

can anyone confirm this number?.

i could interesting to know what the main reasons where..

Desino

At a JW assembly last year in Europe, I heard that 50.000 worldwide had left the Watchtower organization of various reasons. Can anyone confirm this number?

I could interesting to know what the main reasons where.

36

The Man of Lawlessness

by Desino in

have anyone thought who is matching best to this description of the man of lawlessness?

the slave class, is one i can think of since they made many additional rules, that not has a solid scripturally ground, about what is right or wrong for a christian.

did jesus told his disciples how to cut their hair or how they should practise sex within marriage?

Desino

My question is: Who is the man of Lawlessness today?

36

The Man of Lawlessness

by Desino in

have anyone thought who is matching best to this description of the man of lawlessness?

the slave class, is one i can think of since they made many additional rules, that not has a solid scripturally ground, about what is right or wrong for a christian.

did jesus told his disciples how to cut their hair or how they should practise sex within marriage?

Desino

The scripture just triggered some thoughts. Yes it could be Ceasar

I don't think one should focus so much on the word Lawlessness.

240

Desolation of Jerusalem

by Alwayshere in

using the wts's dates in the january 1.1965 page 29 : nabonidus= 17 years.

add 17 to 539=556, neriglissar==4 years, add 4 to 556=560, evil-marduk=2 years, add 2 to560=562, nebuchadnezzar=43 years, add 43 to 562 =605.

the bible at 2 kings 25: 8 and 9 says "in the 19th year of king nebuchadnezzar the servant of the king came to jerusallem and burned the house of jehovah.

Desino

Scholar

Let's read what is says in Dan 9:2 "in the first year of his reigning I myself, Daniel, discerned by the books the number of the years concerning which the word of Jehovah had occurred to Jeremiah the prophet, for fulfilling the devastations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years." [NWT]

The WTS has often used these words to support their interpretation of the seventy years, namely that these years were the years from Jerusalem's destruction until the Jews returned. In some translations (NIV is one example), the wording is inaccurate and gives the impression that seventy years had to pass while Jerusalem was in ruins. The NWT, however, faithfully retains the somewhat ambiguous wording of the original.

Daniel simply says that seventy years had to pass before Jerusalem's devastations could end. He does not say that these seventy years started when Jerusalem was destroyed. Note this leading translation:

Dan 9:2 "in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years which, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years." [RSV]

Note that RSV and NWT uses plural, "devastations." The WTS argues that the devastation of Jerusalem occurred when the city was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. But Daniel talks about several devastations. The Jerusalem Bible even use the expression "the successive devastations of Jerusalem."

The word for "devastation" is chorbah. It does not, as we will see, mean complete destruction. We have seen that Nebuchadnezzar took prisoners and booty from Jerusalem already in 605 BC, his accession year. Every year after this his army passed through the land, no doubt casuing more destruction, and the Bible even speaks about marauder bands from different nations causing havoc in this time (see 2 Kings 24:2; Jeremiah 35:11).

If we look at how this expression is used elsewhere in the Bible, the WTS argument falls completely down. The prophet Ezekiel speaks about "the inhabitants of these devastated places" (Ezekiel 33:24, 27), which then makes it pretty obvious that the word need not necessarily refer to places that are completely devoid of people. When we also see, in Nehemiah 2:17, that the Bible calls Jerusalem devastated even after the Jews had returned to it, we realize that the WTS application of this word is in error.

We have now seen that Daniel 9:2 gives no support to WTS interpretation. First, Daniel nowhere states that the seventy years started when Jerusalem was finally destroyed, as the WTS claim. Second, the devastations of Jerusalem started many years before the final destruction in 587 BC.

No, further comments.

36

The Man of Lawlessness

by Desino in

have anyone thought who is matching best to this description of the man of lawlessness?

the slave class, is one i can think of since they made many additional rules, that not has a solid scripturally ground, about what is right or wrong for a christian.

did jesus told his disciples how to cut their hair or how they should practise sex within marriage?

Desino

You are right greendawn. The Governing Body in WTS have made a law to themselves.

Another point is that they have exalted themselves above God, in the way they use authority over the lives of JWs. I am here mainly referring to the awful Blood doctrine, that has caused the premature death of many Jehovahs witnesses. No, where in God's word is it mentioned that you cannot use Blood to preserve life. All God's laws are based on Love and wisdom. The shunning of family members that are disfellowshipped. Thinking of the emotional impact, to be cut of from family. Clearly not all "laws" from "the discreet and faithful class" are that.

36

The Man of Lawlessness

by Desino in

have anyone thought who is matching best to this description of the man of lawlessness?

the slave class, is one i can think of since they made many additional rules, that not has a solid scripturally ground, about what is right or wrong for a christian.

did jesus told his disciples how to cut their hair or how they should practise sex within marriage?

Desino

Have anyone thought who is matching best to this description of the man of lawlessness? The slave class, is one I can think of since they made many additional rules, that not has a solid scripturally ground, about what is right or wrong for a Christian. Did Jesus told his disciples how to cut their hair or how they should practise sex within marriage? (I mentioned a few, the list is exhaustive). It's God who decides what is right or wrong. Not a self-appointed Slave Class. Remember, when Jesus supposedly should inspect the slave class in 1918, it was still serving polluted spiritual food. Would he chose a slave class serving unclean food?

2. The slave class claim in the watchtower, that they are in the inner courtyard of Gods temple. (sets himself up in God's Temple). Ref. WT 1978 Okt. 1.

2 Thessalonians 2

The Man of Lawlessness

1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness [ a ] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

I appreciate your comments

240

Desolation of Jerusalem

by Alwayshere in

using the wts's dates in the january 1.1965 page 29 : nabonidus= 17 years.

add 17 to 539=556, neriglissar==4 years, add 4 to 556=560, evil-marduk=2 years, add 2 to560=562, nebuchadnezzar=43 years, add 43 to 562 =605.

the bible at 2 kings 25: 8 and 9 says "in the 19th year of king nebuchadnezzar the servant of the king came to jerusallem and burned the house of jehovah.

Desino

Scholar

Why don't you relate to my Biblical reasoning from Zakariah? That would be fitting. Ignorance doesn't get you anywhere.

240

Desolation of Jerusalem

by Alwayshere in

using the wts's dates in the january 1.1965 page 29 : nabonidus= 17 years.

add 17 to 539=556, neriglissar==4 years, add 4 to 556=560, evil-marduk=2 years, add 2 to560=562, nebuchadnezzar=43 years, add 43 to 562 =605.

the bible at 2 kings 25: 8 and 9 says "in the 19th year of king nebuchadnezzar the servant of the king came to jerusallem and burned the house of jehovah.

Desino

Hi There, thanks

I will answer your personal question in another category on this site.

I did a research on 587 / 586 BC recently. Even the Bible support the year 586 BC. for Jerusalems destruction, according to history the second one. This is the reasoning based on the Bible:

Consider Zechariah 1:7 which reads: ‘On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month, that is, the month Shebat, in the second year of Darius, the word of Jehovah occurred to Zechariah the son of Berechiah the son of Iddo the prophet.’

Historians, even WTBTS seems to agree that Darius second year corresponds to February 519 BC (see link http://www.iranchamber.com/history/darius/darius.php ). Notice what a messenger of God said at that time as recorded in verse 12 of Zechariah: ‘So the angel of Jehovah answered and said: ‘O Jehovah of armies, how long will you yourself not show mercy to Jerusalem and to the cities of Judah, whom you have denounced these seventy years?’

Yes, for 70 years God had denounced the cities of Judah. This takes us back to 589 BC. According to backers of the 607 chronology, nothing of significance happened this year, moreover It would be ludicrous for this angel to say the cities had been denounced for ‘seventy years’ if this period started eighteen years after the complete destruction of the capital! In the established chronology however, this was the year when Nebuchadnezzar started the final siege on Jerusalem (2. Kings 25:1; Ezekiel 24:1, 2; Jeremiah 52:4).

Supporters of the 607 chronology have likewise linked these seventy years with the prophecy of Jeremiah, however if this angel was talking about a seventy year period from 607 to 537 - that had ended some 18 years earlier then why would the angel ask ‘how long?’ These very words demonstrate that at this point the period of denouncing had not yet ended. And since they continued, they must have started with a major event in 589 BC. This seventy years is not the same as that of Jeremiah, nor is it even a prophetic period. The angel is simply stating that for seventy years of time Judah has been denounced, and is asking how much longer it will continue to be so.

Zechariah later delivers an even more fatal blow to those who insist on the 607 chronology. Consider Zechariah 7:1-5:

‘Furthermore, it came about that in the fourth year of Darius the king the word of Jehovah occurred to Zechariah, on the fourth day of the ninth month, that is, in Chislev. And Bethel proceeded to send Sharezer and Regem-melech and his men to soften the face of Jehovah, saying to the priests who belonged to the house of Jehovah of armies, and to the prophets, even saying: ‘Shall I weep in the fifth month, practicing an abstinence, the way I have done these O how many years?’ And the word of Jehovah of armies continued to occur to me, saying: ‘Say to all the people of the land and to the priests, When you fasted and there was a wailing in the fifth month and in the seventh month, and this for seventy years , did you really fast to me, even me?’

The chronological evidence in these verses gives a wealth of information. They had been fasting in the fifth month in order to commemorate how on that day Nebuzaradan, the chief of Nebuchadnezzar’s bodyguard, after two days of inspection, burned down the city of Jerusalem and its temple. They also fasted in the seventh month to commemorate the assassination of Governor Gedaliah, who was of the royal house of King David and whom Nebuchadnezzar made governor of the land for the Jews that were allowed to remain after the destruction of Jerusalem.

The Israelites asked if they should continue this fasting, so they were obviously doing it at the time and had been for seventy years. The date given for this vision of Zechariah (Chislev 9, 4th year of Darius) corresponds to November 518 BC. This presents a problem if you want to date the destruction of Jerusalem at 607-BCE since this is some ninety years before. When we count seventy years however we come to the accepted chronology of 586 / 587 BC.

240

Desolation of Jerusalem

by Alwayshere in

using the wts's dates in the january 1.1965 page 29 : nabonidus= 17 years.

add 17 to 539=556, neriglissar==4 years, add 4 to 556=560, evil-marduk=2 years, add 2 to560=562, nebuchadnezzar=43 years, add 43 to 562 =605.

the bible at 2 kings 25: 8 and 9 says "in the 19th year of king nebuchadnezzar the servant of the king came to jerusallem and burned the house of jehovah.

Desino

You are absolutely right. All archaeological evidences points to the year 586 BC for Jerusalems destruction. According to The Kings List (can be seen on British museum). Nebuchadnezzar II didn't start as king before 604 BC. Subtracting 18 years ( 2 Kings. 25:8-10 ) , we end in the year 586. (We are counting reverse to year 0). Therefore 607 BC is wrong.

See more on these sites:

Information about Nebuchadnezzar II. There is no historical record of a king called Nebuchadnezzar I

http://www.bible-history.com/map_babylonian_captivity/map_of_the_deportation_of_judah_archaeology_and_the_babylonian_captivity.html

http://www.bible-history.com/map_babylonian_captivity/map_of_the_deportation_of_judah_the_destruction_of_jerusalem.html

Kings list: http://www.nb.no/baser/schoyen/4/4.2/422.html A strong visual evidence.

I hope you find this information useful.