Its these types of moments when I too would think about these little intricacies of the jw beliefs and ideas and just not be able to philosophically balance them out with rationality. One step beyond this the thing that I could never accept even at the highest point of my trying in the org, was that after a thousand years we get a do over with satan. 1000... things are great... woohoo, oh f%$k look who's back, the devil. *sadtrombone* guess god would need to be sure one last time... or would it be? When the isrealites were suppose to get into the promised land the way it reads is all was gonna be "paradise". Anyway a bit off subject, but many things about the paradise concept don't add up. And I only drink espresso so no filters for me, paradise here I come!!
freemindfade
JoinedPosts by freemindfade
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Q-tips and Coffee Filters helped me learn TTATT
by RedPillPopper inwell they didn't fully teach me ttatt but helped me on the way.............. first thing i do in the morning after waking up is grinding some nice coffee beans and getting the brew started while i take a hot shower.
after the shower i like to clean out all the nasty wax out of my ears with a q-tip (or cotton swab for those not familiar with that term).. while cleaning out my ears i would think about how nice it is we have things like q-tips and coffee filters that make life more enjoyable but at the same time realize that somebody somewhere is in a factory making these.. i can't imagine a child saying "when i grow up i want to work in a factory making coffee filters".
the people who end up really doing that as adults did not set that to be a life goal.
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LuckyNun is back
by LuckyNun inlong time no see.. so, since i last posted on here, jws drove my sister to attempt suicide again (she failed, but it was close) and drove my close childhood friend to actually commit suicide.
i too kmy sister in and helped her recover.
i think she's going to pull through.
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freemindfade
you sound like you've seen some serious struggle welcome back. -
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New member, no longer just reader...
by freemindfade inso i joined very recently and began posting and commenting without a formal intro.
been reading for a while, decided it was time to jump in.
mentally i am completely cleansed of this thing, but still have to maintain a minimal involvement for spouse and family.
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freemindfade
I missed that meeting, wife was pissed
The rapture bit that was 5 years ago, they never believed in the rapture as its defined. But all the flip flopping I don't even pay any attention to now, its a waste of time, id rather spend that time learning about physics or ancient cultures and archeology. facts, not these numerological and typical and antitypical nonsense. They are just circling the airport again and there is still nowhere to land...
These doctrine changes are the flavor of the month, more realistically every year i guess, things get "clearer".
Ask any jdub who knocks on your door or who is at a cart to explain the new understanding of the generation, and I would venture to 95% would either say I'll get back to you, or two start flipping through Jw.org to find an answer they could read (not understand) to you. No one knows anymore its too convoluted, and more importantly few (younger ones) care.
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In search of WWWW (What's Wrong with Watchtower)
by Fernando inin more than 40 years of doorknocking not a single person was ever able to sit down with me and kindly and patiently explain exactly "what's wrong with watchtower" in simple terms and baby-steps that i could grasp at the time.. of course i have to admit it is not as easy as one might hope.. this morning one possible (not simple enough) summary came to mind:.
the bible promotes belief in jesus and the liberating and transforming gospel message about him (in both the nt and ot).. the watchtower instead promotes belief in a visible golden calf and pseudo-mediator between god and man in the form of:.
blind authoritarian clerics who have co-opted the word "elder" and turned it into a title (aka apostate "clericalism").
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freemindfade
Cognetive bias cannot be so easily overcome with just one reasoning point. It's a cleanse of sorts, it must start with the individual allowing themselves to have doubt, until then there is no point, if the org says batman is real, and they all believe... you are stuck until they can reason #1, then you can begin to have a rational conversation.
For me being inside all my life it was just the bible that I questioned and began to feel the WT explanations were phoned in and everyone was just bobbing their heads in agreement. So first I came to see the bible as a book of fiction... then it all fell apart... notice the cult manipulation practices that are a model used by many in undue control situations, and voila.
I also began to realize my rational brain never fully accepted many things.
then I'd hear very spiritual people who were highly privileged and highly dotted after say reprehensible things, knocking on doors and wanting to see some nice person get their come come-upins at Armageddon just because they felt content with their religious ideas.
There is no one or ten things you can point out until someone breaks the barrier of deciding to use their retinal brain, some evidence or specifics might get them thinking, but if they aren't really to be rational cognitive dissonance will quickly clean house.
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The Plurality of God in Old Testament
by Clambake ini am not going to claim to be any kind of bible expert or a good writer or anything like that but do you ever notice how the wts has completely whitewashed this idea or anything relating to this..
from the beginning of the bible in the beginning god said let us make man in our own image , to the term elohim which literally means gods , to the angel of the lord in the old testament which is identified to being with god and god himself.
it is just kind of interesting when you read the book of john in the new testament and you start to read things like the word was with god and the word was god or no one has seen the father only the son it kind of makes sense without really fully understanding it.
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freemindfade
We agree :)
If you get into the occult and other crazy gnostic teachings it really stretches your brain out. Not that I agree with any of it, it just makes you realize that interpreting it one way or another is never simple, and I guess that is why we have so many religions.
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The Plurality of God in Old Testament
by Clambake ini am not going to claim to be any kind of bible expert or a good writer or anything like that but do you ever notice how the wts has completely whitewashed this idea or anything relating to this..
from the beginning of the bible in the beginning god said let us make man in our own image , to the term elohim which literally means gods , to the angel of the lord in the old testament which is identified to being with god and god himself.
it is just kind of interesting when you read the book of john in the new testament and you start to read things like the word was with god and the word was god or no one has seen the father only the son it kind of makes sense without really fully understanding it.
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freemindfade
Jonathan Drake. Sounds like you know exactly what you are talking about. And when you refer to babel (ot reference) I'm guessing what you meant to say is Sumer... correct?
I wouldn't get into a debate about what is the oldest pagan religion when really no one knows. The shamanic origins of paganism could go back further than we imagine. Can you tell me how old the sphinx is in Egypt?? I can't and I wouldn't claim to. What I am getting st is not a debate about that. But that the bible could be loaded with plurality language that pops in and out and monotheists try to smooth it out now to all sound like one god throughout. But none of it matters.
Religion. Comedy for the intelligent. Reality for the ignorant. -
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New member, no longer just reader...
by freemindfade inso i joined very recently and began posting and commenting without a formal intro.
been reading for a while, decided it was time to jump in.
mentally i am completely cleansed of this thing, but still have to maintain a minimal involvement for spouse and family.
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freemindfade
Vidiot, yes, to echo what my mom and I am sure about at least 3 million other witnesses are say about AMIII comments that seemed crazy and brash. They will compare it to jesus saying things that made people say this is madness and leave, then the few that remained were like "who else are we to go to?" and its going to thin out the dubs, which it may, but that will be there logic. The org needed to be refined, so the crazy rants accomplished this... smh -
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New member, no longer just reader...
by freemindfade inso i joined very recently and began posting and commenting without a formal intro.
been reading for a while, decided it was time to jump in.
mentally i am completely cleansed of this thing, but still have to maintain a minimal involvement for spouse and family.
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freemindfade
Ding, exactly! that is what I do, the meetings have become my biggest cause of disbelief against this cult and the bible. Rational non-cognetive bias thinking turns on the light to all this BS, I always look around and see who I think is like me, a freethinker undercover. -
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The Plurality of God in Old Testament
by Clambake ini am not going to claim to be any kind of bible expert or a good writer or anything like that but do you ever notice how the wts has completely whitewashed this idea or anything relating to this..
from the beginning of the bible in the beginning god said let us make man in our own image , to the term elohim which literally means gods , to the angel of the lord in the old testament which is identified to being with god and god himself.
it is just kind of interesting when you read the book of john in the new testament and you start to read things like the word was with god and the word was god or no one has seen the father only the son it kind of makes sense without really fully understanding it.
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freemindfade
Crazyguy is on point, the reality is the Jews did not create monotheism and archeologically and even in the OT even though it is condemned most the time they were involved in pagan worship. The reality is like most things in jewish religion and the OT and even NT, the ideas were borrowed (plagiarized) from Egypt. Egypt at one point had a pharaoh that changed things, the name escapes be at the moment, but they had a similar belief system with a hierarchy with the sun god as the "almighty chief god" as it were. they went from pagan, to monotheism back to polytheistic paganism. Really genesis simply does refer to pluralism very early on..."let us make man in our image. Now from now looking back (2+2=5) we say "oh that was jesus he was talking to".
Bottom line the OT probably wasn't written by moses, but concocted by a much much later isrealite king as a political tool. This is why the bible is patchwork of old pagan ideas that were recorded well before even the supposed writing of the bible.
If you do some research on the archeology of the Canaanites, the jews arch nemesis in the bible pages, you find they in fact worshiped YHWH... just one of the their gods, and that infact the jews were not the enemies of the canaanites, but WERE canaanites.
Rewriting ones past in order to control people in the present is nothing new, its that what the "Society" is doing?
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Need list of notable bible people who Jah let slide
by RedPillPopper inneed a list of people like cain, lot, david, etc who did things they should have been put to death for but jah forgave, excused or turned a blind eye to.
thanks for any info.. .
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freemindfade
OnTheWayOut
Great post!