Posts by freemindfade

120

The right to shun - wrong?

by Simon in

many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.

it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.

of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.

While it may not yet cross the street to legal issue, it is safe to call it an ethical issue. For instance, and I am speaking from experience, choosing not to associate with someone who has spiraled to a point of absolute danger to them selves and others. having to take somewhat of a "intervention" approach and not enable them through self destruction (which doesn't mean shunning either). Just not supporting it.

But when you consider the worst part of witness shunning its not really someone who breaks a witness law like fornications and gets DF'd but still believes fully in their membership to the cult, but rather the worst part would be anyone who simply says, I don't want to be a member any longer. This is where you see the true intentions of this cult practice. Censorship and vilification/demonization of anyone brazen enough to leave. You are saying you become a jehovah's witness you have forfeited freedom of religion in their eyes.

The damages cause to someone simply wanting to leave, should start to push the line from ethics to legality someday I hope.

225

Cult or Religion

by Richard C B in

what is a cult and what is a religion?

its open to debate.

who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?

freemindfade

His comment that we have somehow proven it is not a cult to him is a simple demonstration of this cult mind protection mechanism:

An awesome video was posted here Richard and everyone should watch.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/505320002/explaining-cult-mentality

This may be one of the deepest and most critical things for an honest version of Richard to grasp. As a Jehovah's Witness you have been conditioned to put critics into a no-win position. Until something cracks this and gets inside, no proof, no rational, nothing will matter, the Cult will be right regardless.

120

The right to shun - wrong?

by Simon in

many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.

it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.

of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.

freemindfade

I suppose the only way they could get away with it is some sort of recategorizing.

Like if you preach any kind of hate

If you promote intolerance

Discrimination

shunning etc.

Through written policies and published material

You lose certain religious privileges, such as tax exemption. yes there is freedom of religion and speech, but still why can't these groups be subject to not violating certain protected categories like you would in a work place?

In the end it would probably just result in a changing of language in literature, but the witnesses can twist it for days and still do it, they would just change the name of it and continue

120

The right to shun - wrong?

by Simon in

many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.

it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.

of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.

freemindfade

To some degree I agree. If you don't want to have anything to do with someone you have the right.

A few things to consider though. It's institutional for one. It's not just getting in a fight with someone and they stop taking to you. It's announced. To friends. Family. And strangers.

Shunning often has delved into people's privacy to get to that point, then exposed it to many others in what is a slanderous way.

Another thing is to consider is children. Most born ins are baptized before being considered an adult. They are making a choice of member ship into an organized religion/business before they can drink, drive, go to war, get married, etc. And now they are pushing for younger baptize and focused on kids. What happens when more minors are getting not only baptized but also reproved and even df'd? It could make for a sticky situation.

What I am getting at is personal reason to cut ties with someone happen often. A systematic approach from a group claiming charity etc could be a problem though. When they, a third party, are dictating your choices that if you don't uphold you could be threatened with the same punishment.

I do agree Simon but I think something will give somewhere. It's religious intolerance, and as isis and other maniacs make more headlines the Prarie of religious hatred and intolerance is going to get less and less popular and by extension jw shunning could get lumped in with that at some point. Laws made to protect Muslims or others could be used for jws in the future.

Also I gave often thought of this:

Would it mean the government would force people to talk to others they didn't want to?

And here is what I think would happen. Watchtower would have to change policy and preaching of the practice. I deep down believe they would continue it though. They have a way. For instance it doesn't say anywhere you can't have a beard. But grow one and watch the fireworks. They are good at enforcing unwritten rules that would just seem crazy in writing. But if the law forced them to at least remove the policy. I would call that a small win

65

Introducing...ME

by Heartsafire in

jw
friends

long time lurker here.

i'm a fifth gen born-in baptized jw.

to say i've been struggling with doubts is an understatement.

freemindfade

Welcome heartsafire

Another very familiar sounding story. Me and a lot of others here can sympathize with exactly the struggle you now face. Having that full in spouse never allows you the full peace of the fade. But you know it's there so don't give up. Your friend fmf

52

Deaf Aotearoa flooded with complaints about Jehovah's Witness church

by OrphanCrow in

deaf aotearoa flooded with complaints about jehovah's witness churchkashka tunstalllast updated 15:22, october 6 2015deaf aotearoa has asked the jehovah's witness church to respond to claims of a deaf information database.new zealand's deaf community is fed up with unsolicited house calls, claiming the jehovah's witness church is targeting deaf households.deaf aotearoa has received multiple complaints from around the country and says church members visited certain homes because they were aware a deaf person lived there.

the organisation released a statement on monday, saying it was looking into the possibility the church holds a database listing the details of members of the deaf community.jehovah witness spokesman rod spinks said there was no such database and deaf people were not being targeted.the deaf aotearoa statement was posted on the group's facebook page, and received a flood of comments from frustrated people.one woman said a group of jehovah's witnesses had come to her house and asked "for the deaf person who lives here.

" she said they refused to explain how they had her details and didn't visit her neighbours.another said church members had turned up at her work and asked for her by name.hamilton man royce flynn said he had been visited six times over the last nine months, despite repeatedly saying he was uninterested in the house calls.he said the church members were always able to sign and also brought deaf people along, which lead him to believe he was being singled out.flynn said contacted local police, who told him it was a privacy issue and referred him on to the office of the privacy commissioner.he said he had been been in contact with local labour member of parliament sue moroney.deaf aotearoa acting chief executive jill dean said complaints about the church were a recurring issue.

freemindfade

@jwfacts

I know for a fact deaf are targeted, and there must be forms, letters and other things to back this up. Please contact them and I will help anyway I can

225

Cult or Religion

by Richard C B in

what is a cult and what is a religion?

its open to debate.

who has the authority to say for certain what is a cult and what is a religion?

freemindfade

Even fading or walking away comes with its cultish fallout.

You can't just walk away, family flips out friends flip out, they say really weird and preachy things to you non stop, the elders FORCE themselves into your life, yes you can say no, but they really make it inappropriate how much the push, and use emotional manipulation and private investigating interrogation techniques. To avoid all this, your best bet is to disappear completely. Someone tell me how that is not a undue influence cult?

3