Posts by freemindfade

56

Do You Ever Wish That Hillary Was President?

by minimus in

jw
friends

hillary is very supportive of doing whatever it takes to undermine trump.

would you be happy if she were your president?.

freemindfade

Clinton would have been a continuation of the hot mess started by other Criminals (George H. Bush) back in the day. A disruption was needed. That's also something I don't think people see, they see Trump and the knee-jerk tribal political environment and think he did it. This has been building since post-Reagan.

The lack of civility was started with the Republican revolution of 94 and Newt Gingrich and the subsequent attack on Bill Clinton, which the Democrats have decided since to reciprocate. So the GOP started the shit storm, but I have seen since, the left has pulled WAAAYYY off center, dangerously in my opinion. You can complain about Trump's bombastic tweets and banging porn stars, but there is currently one element in this country involved heavily in:

Calls to actively harass the other tribe, to shadowban, punch, evict and fire all who don't think like you
Censor Free speech
Push a meaningless message/position ("resist", "impeach")
Portray a large portion of middle America as sub-human
Fight for equality of outcome vs opportunity

Obama campaigned as moderate, but this too was a lie, by the end he was advocating socialism. All the negative things you can say about Trump's personality, his win has shown are possessed just as equally by the democratic party leadership. They have not shown that they are actually on a higher moral level, they have just tried to respond by being MORE dishonest and MORE nasty than him. I don't want those people in office..

25

Encouraging the nasty angels of our nature

by Lee Elder in

i see stories like this one, and think we are losing our way as a nation.

reverting to tribalism and racism.

i wonder if its always been there lurking beneath the surface, and it just took someone to encourage it a bit.. https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/26/us/woman-berates-man-viral-rant-don-lemon-cnntv/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_content=2018-06-26t08%3a30%3a04&utm_term=link&utm_source=fbcnn.

freemindfade

He did it because the democrats see angry black people as a block vote that can keep them in power.

If the majority of Black people in America started voting Republican, the left would quickly lose interest in their suffering, real or media fabricated. And that may happen.

25

Encouraging the nasty angels of our nature

by Lee Elder in

i see stories like this one, and think we are losing our way as a nation.

reverting to tribalism and racism.

i wonder if its always been there lurking beneath the surface, and it just took someone to encourage it a bit.. https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/26/us/woman-berates-man-viral-rant-don-lemon-cnntv/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_content=2018-06-26t08%3a30%3a04&utm_term=link&utm_source=fbcnn.

freemindfade

Something else to consider that is driving us to civil war, it is the disallowing of dissenting opinions. Censorship of speech. Intolerance of discourse. As much as an asshole as Trump is, and as dumb of stuff as he says, he's not leading that charge.

25

Encouraging the nasty angels of our nature

by Lee Elder in

i see stories like this one, and think we are losing our way as a nation.

reverting to tribalism and racism.

i wonder if its always been there lurking beneath the surface, and it just took someone to encourage it a bit.. https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/26/us/woman-berates-man-viral-rant-don-lemon-cnntv/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_content=2018-06-26t08%3a30%3a04&utm_term=link&utm_source=fbcnn.

freemindfade

Obama justified racial violence and tried to bias criminal cases. He was definitely more articulate, charismatic and a great orator (more like a cult leader than Trump, for all the accusations of the opposite). But when it came to policy he made things worse.

Obama would have made a good President in a movie or a TV sitcom dad. He came across as good as possible. Behind the scenes, he violated the constitution more than any other president I'm aware of. He also played his part in dividing the country, feeding the myths that created the dogma of BLM.

The division we see today started probably about 20-30 years ago legitimately. It takes time to get here, not just with one election. Politics has been slipping from civility over that time, and you can blame both parties. But now here we are, who are pushing the divide harder and faster right now? Either side can be vile, but you have to look at who is pulling the Overton window, controlling speech and culture, and you will see who is burning this shit down.

25

Encouraging the nasty angels of our nature

by Lee Elder in

i see stories like this one, and think we are losing our way as a nation.

reverting to tribalism and racism.

i wonder if its always been there lurking beneath the surface, and it just took someone to encourage it a bit.. https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/26/us/woman-berates-man-viral-rant-don-lemon-cnntv/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_content=2018-06-26t08%3a30%3a04&utm_term=link&utm_source=fbcnn.

freemindfade

Yep. POTUS set the example and people feel encouraged

Gonna call BS on that. Its true Trump is not civil, but its crazy to blame him for every evil in the world and the source of all that is wrong. To think Turmp just showed up one day and everyone started acting out is foolish, to say the least.

America was well divided before the 2016 election, Trump didn't create the rift, he just came out of it.

News flash utopian dreamers, there will always be racist, nasty people. And someone like Trump displays an attitude of not being civil, but everyone who joins him in that is showing they prefer to be on that level. And that includes most the MSM, most celebrities, and most subscribing to a radical (ignorant) leftist narrative. They are no better than him but promoting more violence and unrest than him, his supporters, or anyone else.

The more the prevailing culture drag the Overton window left off the map, the more enraged the opposition to PC will become. The likes of Maxine Waters and the rest of the rabid leftists who CLAIM to hate trump so bad prove they are actually more like him than anyone else.

80

Are we losing our way a bit at JWN?

by nicolaou in

firstly, i want to be crystal clear how grateful i am for jwn.

it's been my place of support for over seventeen years and it's the first online space i direct anyone to if they are taking steps out of the cult.

i am not bashing jwn - i love this place and appreciate the hard work and expense simon puts in to keep it going.

freemindfade

That was actually me that said that not Sir lol

If we all applied the Socratic method we would find we have far more in common than we think, then we just debate the little stuff. It's not as offensive

80

Are we losing our way a bit at JWN?

by nicolaou in

firstly, i want to be crystal clear how grateful i am for jwn.

it's been my place of support for over seventeen years and it's the first online space i direct anyone to if they are taking steps out of the cult.

i am not bashing jwn - i love this place and appreciate the hard work and expense simon puts in to keep it going.

freemindfade

Fink I'm smacking my head right now... what are you doing

55

Cults in our Midst

by Lee Elder in

this is related to a comment i made in a previous thread.

cults exist in many diverse parts of society.

this includes politics.

freemindfade

Political leaders aren't demanding that their followers cut off association with members of the opposite party/candidate under penalty of shunning; the people doing the shunning are doing it of their own accord.

Oh really?

“They’re not going to be able to go to a restaurant, they’re not going to be able to stop at a gas station, they’re not going to be able to shop at a department store,” “The people are going to turn on them, they’re going to protest, they’re going to absolutely harass them.”
Waters seemed adamant the protests would continue until cabinet members tell Trump, “No, I can’t hang with you."-Maxine Waters

Sounds like exactly whats going on to me

The following is from the Washington Post:

The latest sign of political divide: Shaming and shunning public officials

Anger and division in American politics are creating a rising phenomenon: the public shaming and shunning of political figures while they are going about their private lives.

Pam Bondi, the Florida attorney general who often appears on Fox News and is closely aligned with President Trump, was shouted down at a movie screening in Tampa on Friday. “You are a horrible person!” one protester screamed at Bondi. The local newspaper reported that Bondi was escorted out of the theater by police.

Hecklers shouted “Shame!” at Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, a public face of Trump’s immigration policies, hastening her departure from a Mexican restaurant near the White House last week. Protesters even posted video of that encounter on Facebook.

Trump adviser and immigration hard-liner Stephen Miller also was confronted at a restaurant last week and called a “fascist.”

Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) this weekend encouraged harassment of Trump officials in public spaces.

A sitting Democratic congresswoman has called for violence against those on the right, let that sink in

80

Are we losing our way a bit at JWN?

by nicolaou in

firstly, i want to be crystal clear how grateful i am for jwn.

it's been my place of support for over seventeen years and it's the first online space i direct anyone to if they are taking steps out of the cult.

i am not bashing jwn - i love this place and appreciate the hard work and expense simon puts in to keep it going.

freemindfade

We have to give culture a nod on the amount of political discussion here and everywhere, movies, TV shows, ones I used to love, the news, literally every medium right now, is trying to politicize literally everything. EVERYTHING. I used to love late night comedy, it is nonexistent now in the way I used to know it. There has always been a political element to comedy, and TV. And they teased everyone and it was funny. It's not funny anymore because literally, everything has a political slant. And they aren't even trying to get laughter, they are trying to get "clappter". The comedy comes from a spiteful place demanding you agree with or be labeled accordingly. They are apology tours for the latest person to break the PC rules of our ever-increasing thought-policed society. So shows I used to watch like the daily show, SNL, they aren't getting laughs, instead, they are getting people to agree with the accepted narrative and clap in agreement. So I think its fair to say in a society where every iota of life is put into the political space, and you can't escape it, it's going to bleed into everything by nature. We are simultaneously fatigued and engaged in it to no end.

80

Are we losing our way a bit at JWN?

by nicolaou in

firstly, i want to be crystal clear how grateful i am for jwn.

it's been my place of support for over seventeen years and it's the first online space i direct anyone to if they are taking steps out of the cult.

i am not bashing jwn - i love this place and appreciate the hard work and expense simon puts in to keep it going.

freemindfade

When you leave the high control of the JWS, you were used to your words, thoughts, and ability to explore new ideas and disagree, to have challenging discussions. I think the politics turn into too many threads on the same subject, also there is not enough discussing of policy, philosophy, and history. I do feel political discussion in this JW forum is a barometer for peoples tolerance of your expressing different opinions.

I have friends on this board that in our own group chat off of her disagree about several things (political) and the discussions are intense, but they are always about the issues, the disagreement and debate is at a high level. And everyone remains close regardless of how intense it gets.

So I see politics and social issues as a barometer for EXJWS how much they allow themselves to understand things first before speaking about them, especially emotionally. Also how they engage disagreement, and it's interesting to see who resorts to the old tactics first, of demonizing the person with the opposing thought, appealing to emotion over logic. Politics, especially in today polarized divide, is a good mental exercise for how you approach the debate. Not which view you hold.

When we discuss these things we should always try to reaffirm what the other person actually believes, and discuss from there because many times we all share the same big principles. I have tried to dig at some opponents on here in political discussions only to find they seem to have no point of view, they are just angry. I find it an interesting exercise in how far each of us has come to combat groupthink and come to our own opinions out of facts, not the raw emotion of the group.