Posts by scout575

8

Does the Bible's '2 witnesses' rule give evidence of divine inspiration?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

at deut 17:6 the law is given that states that for the death penalty to be imposed on someone guilty of a capital offence, there have to be 2 or 3 witnesses to the crime.

if there weren't at least 2 witnesses then no conviction could be made and therefore no punishment meted out to the offender.. consider the following scenario: an israelite girl is being sexually abused by her israelite father ( incest was a capital offence under the mosaic law - leviticus 18:6,29 ).

she approaches the city elders and tells them what her father is doing to her.

scout575

At Deut 17:6 the law is given that states that for the death penalty to be imposed on someone guilty of a capital offence, there have to be 2 or 3 witnesses to the crime. If there weren't at least 2 witnesses then no conviction could be made and therefore no punishment meted out to the offender.

Consider the following scenario: An Israelite girl is being sexually abused by her Israelite father ( incest was a capital offence under the Mosaic law - Leviticus 18:6,29 ). She approaches the city elders and tells them what her father is doing to her. They summon her father and ask him if the allegations are true. He denies it. As there aren't at least 2 witnesses to the crimes, the father is left unconvicted and unpunished. The outcome for the girl? She goes home and continues to be abused by her father. Does the Bible's '2 or 3 witnesses' rule give evidence of divine inspiration?

18

Does 2 Samuel 12:15 show the god of the Bible to be a god of justice?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

after king david commits adulery with bathaheba and arranges for her husband uriah to be killed in battle, does god execute the death penalty on david as prescribed by the mosaic law for adulterers?

( deut 22:22 ) no.

rather than executing david, what punishment does god mete out?

scout575

Hi Jaffacake,

Thanks for another interesting reply. You say: "For MOST CHRISTIANS the Bible is something very different to what JWs AND OTHERS perceive it be...We don't all interpret Scriptures in a one dimensional, literalistic way.... MOST CHRISTIANS are immune to such challenges ( eg, the 2 Sam 12:15 question )." This may well be true, but I suspect that MOST CHRISTIANS don't read the postings on this website.

You also say that there is " a limited understanding by some of its ( the Bible's ) authors of the PUNITIVE JUSTICE OF GOD....Paul mistakenly thinks of Jesus as a VEANGEFUL warrior." ( 2 Thess 1:7-9 ) Your words remind me of Jesus' words at Luke 21:20-22: "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near....For these be the days of VENGEANCE, that all that is written may be fulfilled." Does Jesus mistakenly view God as a VEANGEFUL warrior? As "JWs AND OTHERS" view the "PUNITIVE JUSTICE OF GOD" in the same way as Paul and Jesus did, might it be that their view of it ( however unpalatable ), is nearer to what was actually meant, than is the view of "MOST CHRISTIANS?"

P.s. You don't really like Jaffacakes, do you? ( I'm more of a Jammy Dodgers man myself ) I hope I'm not interpreting your username in a "one dimensional, literalistic way"? Feel free to interpret 'Jammy Dodgers' in a multi-dimensional, figurative way.

18

Does 2 Samuel 12:15 show the god of the Bible to be a god of justice?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

after king david commits adulery with bathaheba and arranges for her husband uriah to be killed in battle, does god execute the death penalty on david as prescribed by the mosaic law for adulterers?

( deut 22:22 ) no.

rather than executing david, what punishment does god mete out?

scout575

After King David commits adulery with Bathaheba and arranges for her husband Uriah to be killed in battle, does God execute the death penalty on David as prescribed by the Mosaic law for adulterers? ( Deut 22:22 ) No. Rather than executing David, what punishment does God mete out? At 2 Samuel 12:15, the Bible shows that God chooses to execute the child that is born as a result of David's adultery with Bathsheba. The verse reads: "And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick." In verse 18 it says: "And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died." Does this account portray the god of the Bible as a god of justice?

12

Did Jesus fulfil Hosea 11:1?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

at matthew 2:15, the writer quotes an extract from hosea 11:1. his quote reads: "out of egypt have i called my son.

" matthew applies this quotation to jesus in connection with jesus' return to israel from egypt, as an infant.

does the context of this extract from hosea 11:1, and the tense in which it is written indicate that it is a messianic prophecy?

scout575

Hi Jaffa cake ( sorry about previously calling you Jedi Master - Oops ).

Thanks for you reply. You say that its a mistake to try to: "Match the Christ's accomplishments in some literalistic way with O.T prophecies. In my view there is little point in trying to make such matches." It has to be said that N.T writers present a very different view. Notice, for instance how Matthew quotes the OT prophet Zechariah, saying: "And they took the thirty pieces of silver. the price of him that was valued. "( Matt 27:9 ) He also quotes from Psalm 22:18, saying: "They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture they cast lots." ( Matt 27:35 ) These are very literalistic matches between the O.T and Christ's acomplishments.

You say that: "ALL the things described in the O.T are symbols, NEVER literal." Do Christians believe that Jesus was LITERALLY betrayed for thirty pieces of silver, or not? Do they believe that Jesus' garments were LITERALLY 'parted among them' or not. The Gospel writer didn't present these O.T verses as symbolic, but applied them in an all too literal way to Jesus.

What we see at Matt 2:15 is another attempt by Matthew to literally match an O.T verse ( Hosea 11:1 ) to the life of Jesus. He felt that it was appropriate to apply a HISTORICAL verse about Israel's ( literal ) exodus from Egypt and apply it as a PROPHECY to Jesus' ( literal ) return from Egypt to Israel, as an infant. Its for each of us to judge whether or not that is a proper use of Scripture.

12

Did Jesus fulfil Hosea 11:1?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

at matthew 2:15, the writer quotes an extract from hosea 11:1. his quote reads: "out of egypt have i called my son.

" matthew applies this quotation to jesus in connection with jesus' return to israel from egypt, as an infant.

does the context of this extract from hosea 11:1, and the tense in which it is written indicate that it is a messianic prophecy?

scout575

At Matthew 2:15, the writer quotes an extract from Hosea 11:1. His quote reads: "Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matthew applies this quotation to Jesus in connection with Jesus' return to Israel from Egypt, as an infant. Does the context of this extract from Hosea 11:1, and the tense in which it is written indicate that it is a Messianic prophecy? Is Matthew taking liberties with the text?

3

Did Jesus fulfil Micah 5:2? What does the context indicate?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

christians believe that jesus fulfilled the prophecy at micah 5:2 which predicts the coming of a ruler from bethlehem.

however, does the context support that belief?

the verses following verse 2 foretell what this ruler would accomplish.

scout575

Sorry about the double posting ( I'm not the sharpest tool in the box ). Jedi Knight, please follow the link given by Narkissos ( thanks Narkissos ) where I do address the point that you make in reply to my question.

6

Did Jesus fulfil Micah 5:2?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

christians believe that micah 5:2, which predicts the coming of a ruler from bethlehem, was fulfilled by jesus.

however, does the context support that belief?

micah goes on to predict what this ruler would accomplish.

scout575

I think that Mr.Fruchtenbaum has limited frucht on his baum. Verses 5 and 6 of Micah 5 predict that the ruler from Bethlehem would dispose of the Assyrian threat to Israel. Verse 6 says: "Thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian." This clearly wasn't fulfilled by Jesus as he was born centuries after the Assyrians disappeared from the world scene.

3

Did Jesus fulfil Micah 5:2? What does the context indicate?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

christians believe that jesus fulfilled the prophecy at micah 5:2 which predicts the coming of a ruler from bethlehem.

however, does the context support that belief?

the verses following verse 2 foretell what this ruler would accomplish.

scout575

Christians believe that Jesus fulfilled the prophecy at Micah 5:2 which predicts the coming of a ruler from Bethlehem. However, does the context support that belief? The verses following verse 2 foretell what this ruler would accomplish. Do those accomplishments fit Jesus ( particularly verses 5 and 6 )?

6

Did Jesus fulfil Micah 5:2?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

christians believe that micah 5:2, which predicts the coming of a ruler from bethlehem, was fulfilled by jesus.

however, does the context support that belief?

micah goes on to predict what this ruler would accomplish.

scout575

Christians believe that Micah 5:2, which predicts the coming of a ruler from Bethlehem, was fulfilled by Jesus. However, does the context support that belief? Micah goes on to predict what this ruler would accomplish. Do these accomplishments fit Jesus? Notice particularly what this ruler is prophesied to do in verse 6.

1

Help me please? When I click on the message box, nothing happens.

by scout575 in

jw
friends