Posts by scout575

21

Is this prophecy by Jesus trustworthy?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

in the last chapter of the bible jesus is three times portrayed as saying: "i come quickly.

" the last of these three statements actually reads: "surely i come quickly.

" ( rev 22:7, 12, 20 ) does the passage of nearly 2000 years since those words were written indicate that this bible prophecy is trustworthy?

scout575

Hi Jaffacake. A good question to ask is: How would the Christians in the first century have understood Jesus' words? Would they have pondered on the so-called "historical sense" of Jesus words? Its a prophecy! Rev 22:12 says: "I come quickly ( not: "I HAVE come quickly ) and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." The early Christians would have understood Jesus words to mean that soon ( in their lifetime ) Jesus would return and reward them with eternal life and destroy their oppressors ( a prophecy that clearly failed to come true ).

This is the understanding that Paul had, as shown at 1Thess 4:17: "Then WE which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them and meet the Lord in the air." Paul believed that he would live to see the return of Christ and then be taken up to heaven to meet him. This is what the first readers of Revelation would have understood by the prophecy at Rev 22:12.

As 'Almighty God' would have known too well that thats how they would have understood Rev 22:12, why did he allow it to be put in those words? Why didn't he 'clarify' it to them along the lines of your last posting? Does it not strike you as slightly ironic that Paul and the other early Christians were so wrong, so literalistic and one dimensional in their understanding, and yet todays 'mainstream theologians' have the correct and "spiritual"... "Christian perspective"?

21

Is this prophecy by Jesus trustworthy?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

in the last chapter of the bible jesus is three times portrayed as saying: "i come quickly.

" the last of these three statements actually reads: "surely i come quickly.

" ( rev 22:7, 12, 20 ) does the passage of nearly 2000 years since those words were written indicate that this bible prophecy is trustworthy?

scout575

In the last chapter of the Bible Jesus is three times portrayed as saying: "I come QUICKLY." The last of these three statements actually reads: "SURELY I come quickly." ( Rev 22:7, 12, 20 ) Does the passage of nearly 2000 years since those words were written indicate that this Bible prophecy is trustworthy?

6

How responsible is Jesus' advice at Matthew 19:12?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

matthew 19:12 says: " for their are some eunuchs which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and their are some eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom heaven's sake.

he that can make room for it, let him receive it.

" whilst these words of jesus have been taken figuratively by most christians, many, particularly in the past, have taken them all too literally and castrated themselves, thinking they were following jesus' advice.

scout575

Peacebaby: Your advice to me to: "dig deeper, friend." seems to entirely miss the point of my question. I agree that Jesus' words are to be taken metaphorically. My point was that many Christians in the past ( including some of the Church fathers ) thought Jesus' words were to taken literally and so castrated themselves, genuinely believing that they were following Jesus' advice.

You joke about those who took this step, saying: "One less idiot in our gene pool - LOL!" I can't say that I'm an expert on the Chuch fathers, but were they really idiots? I suspect somehow that many Christians would consider that Jesus would take a slightly more generous view of the sincere ( but albeit misguided ) Christians who did castrate themselves for his sake.

If Jesus had spoken in more straightforward terms, then many of his ancient followers wouldn't have mutilated themselves, thinking they were doing their master's will. If Jesus had said something along the lines of: "Why not consider staying single for the sake of the good news" then none of his followers would have ever castrated themselves. What a shame that 'Almighty God' never foresaw that so many of his worshippers would take Jesus' words literally.

6

How responsible is Jesus' advice at Matthew 19:12?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

matthew 19:12 says: " for their are some eunuchs which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and their are some eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom heaven's sake.

he that can make room for it, let him receive it.

" whilst these words of jesus have been taken figuratively by most christians, many, particularly in the past, have taken them all too literally and castrated themselves, thinking they were following jesus' advice.

scout575

Matthew 19:12 says: " For their are some eunuchs which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and their are some eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom heaven's sake. He that can make room for it, let him receive it." Whilst these words of Jesus have been taken figuratively by most Christians, many, particularly in the past, have taken them all too literally and castrated themselves, thinking they were following Jesus' advice. Surely an all-knowing God would have foreseen this tragedy and not allowed the above wording of Jesus' advice to appear in the Bible.

9

Is Jesus over-rated?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

whilst the bible generally portrays jesus as a good and clever man, is this the whole story?

how does jesus respond to those who meet with his disapproval?

to peter he says: "get thee behind me, satan: thou art an offence unto me.

scout575

Thanks again Jaffacake. Your comments remind me of the saying; "We don't see things the way they are, we see them the way WE are." In other words, we tend to see things according to our own pre-suppositions and not how they actually are. In an earlier posting you talk about the 'accurate face of God' and how this face is to be seen in the statement 'God is love' rather than in the face of God presented at 1 Sam 12:15.

Are you seeing the face of God that suits your own pre-suppositions rather than the face of God that the Bible actually presents as a whole? As you well know, the text that says: "God is love." is 1John 4:18. The accurate face of God? "Yes", you say. And yet, what does the apostle John say at 2 John 10,11? He says: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." Is this command to shun fellow believers who disagree with you, also a reflection of the 'accurate face of God'? I suspect that you would say: "No!" Is the 1 John 4:18 statement a statement from God that included no interpretation by John, and the 2 John 10, 11 statement a statement that does include interpretation by John?

Who decides which texts reflect the 'true face of God' and which include some interpretation by the Bible writers, and therefore don't reflect 'the true face of God'? Is it the 'mainstream theologians' that you mention, who decide on these matters? Is it personal choice? This may not be too much of a problem when it comes to texts that are obviously 'nice' or obviously 'not nice' but what about the texts that contain a mixture of 'nice' bits and 'not nice' bits? What then?

9

Is Jesus over-rated?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

whilst the bible generally portrays jesus as a good and clever man, is this the whole story?

how does jesus respond to those who meet with his disapproval?

to peter he says: "get thee behind me, satan: thou art an offence unto me.

scout575

Thanks Narkissos. The point that you mention regarding Jesus' cursing of the fig tree ( Mark 11:12-14 ) was never a problem for me because of ( are you reading this, Jaffacake? ) the WTS' very non-literalistic, non-one dimensional interpretation of it. They say that Jesus' cursing of the fig tree, wasn't an act of petulance, but was rather an object lesson for how God would deal with the Israelite nation: Jesus came to the nation of Israel looking for SPIRITUAL fruit and found none. Because of this dearth of Spiritual fruit, the nation would be cursed by God ( just as Jesus had cursed the fig-tree ). The text used to support this interpretation is Matthew 21:44, where Jesus says to the Jews: "The kingdom of God will be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the FRUITS thereof."

9

Is Jesus over-rated?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

whilst the bible generally portrays jesus as a good and clever man, is this the whole story?

how does jesus respond to those who meet with his disapproval?

to peter he says: "get thee behind me, satan: thou art an offence unto me.

scout575

Hi Narkissos,

OMG ( sorry about that, God ), you've blown my cover! ( I forgive you ). The questions that I'm raising are those that came to mind over years of Bible reading, and that gradually eroded my faith in the Bible. I haven't thrown out the baby with the bath water, mind. There's clearly some nice stuff in the Bible, but alot of stuff thats less than inspiring, to say the least. I'm asking the questions that I wish someone had raised with me many years ago. I strongly suspect that had that happened I would have stopped viewing the Bible as inspired of God, and left Christianity much earlier than I did. I know my questions are directed at a very 'niche' market, but I still think that its worthwhile posting them. Maybe there are some people 'out there' who will read them and one day be grateful for them. I know that I would have been VERY grateful for them, but thats just me.

9

Is Jesus over-rated?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

whilst the bible generally portrays jesus as a good and clever man, is this the whole story?

how does jesus respond to those who meet with his disapproval?

to peter he says: "get thee behind me, satan: thou art an offence unto me.

scout575

Whilst the Bible generally portrays Jesus as a good and clever man, is this the whole story? How does Jesus respond to those who meet with his disapproval? To Peter he says: "Get thee behind me, SATAN: thou art an offence unto me." ( Matt 16:23 ) The 'goats' in the parable of the sheep and the goats are condemned to: "EVERLASTING FIRE prepared for the Devil and his angels." ( Matt 25:41 ) To Christians in Laodicea he says; ' I will SPUE thee out of my mouth." ( Rev 3:16 ) Is Jesus over-rated?

7

Is John 12:24 inspired of God?

by scout575 in

jw
friends

john 12:24 says: "except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone; but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

" is this a scientifically accurate statement?

can a dead seed germinate and go on to produce fruit?

scout575

Hi Jaffacake,

You say, 'since when does the Bible ever claim to be scientifically accurate?' The Bible DOES claim to be a book of TRUTH. Notice Proverbs 30:5,6: 'Every word of God is pure...Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.' Jesus says of God: "Thy word is TRUTH." ( John 17:17 )

The above question about seed quotes JESUS' words. Colossians 1:16 says of Jesus: "For by him were all things created." Would it be so unreasonable to expect the 'Creator' of the seed to be scientifically accurate about it?

You say that the Bible contains prophecy. If the Bible is supposedly capable of accurately predicting the future why is expecting scientific accuracy so unreasonable?

You say that my question would be a challenge to JW beliefs but not to the 'silent majority' of Christians. Do the 'silent majority' of Christians use this website?

You say that I'm using 'flawed tactics' in the way I present my questions. I wish that someone had used such 'flawed tactics' on me years ago.

My questions aren't addressed to 'most Christians.' When reading the many deeply flawed aspects of the Bible, 'most Christians' are in the convenient position of being able to dismiss these points as not 'nice' enough to be what God really meant. JWs and born again Christians don't have that luxury. They feel compelled to accept and apply these unpalatable Bible verses and reap the damaging consequences.

29

What's your view of the bible?

by JH in

jw
friends

ok' the bible is full of errors and inconsistencies some will say, so does this make the bible nul and void?.

some verses are still very clear, like thy shall not steal, or thy shall not commit adultery or fornication... .

some will think that if you find a few errors or inconsistencies in the bible, then it's not trustworthy anymore, so scrap the whole book.

scout575

The Bible continues ( in part ) to fascinate me. The idea presented by Jaffacake that it is inspired of God, but was distorted by Bible writers is problematic to say the least. He is left with a 'little Jack Horner' approach to the Bible - he 'puts in his thumb and pulls out a plumb' and leaves the unpalatable stuff. Who decides which bits are 'plums' and which bits aren't? Are the 'nice bits' the bits that got through from God in an untainted way, and the 'horrid bits' the bits that got corrupted by the Bible writers?

This posting is 'inspired' by me and I bet the version of it that arrives on the site will be EXACTLY what I intended. What a shame that 'almighty God' can't convey his messages to mankind as effectively as the internet can convey my messages to this website.