Posts by scout575

54

Comments You Will Not Year at the 3-12-06 WT Study(Witness/Nations)

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the march 12, 2006 wt study (february 1, 2006 issue, pages 22-26)(witness/nations).

review comments will be in red.

wt material from today's wt will be in black.

scout575

Luna2: Thanks for your lovely reply. Even when I was Witness I'd heard about some brothers 'throwing their weight around' and I didn't disbelieve it. The New Testament contains examples of things going badly wrong within the first century congregation ( Gal 5:15, 1 Cor 3:3, James 2:1-4 ) and so I knew that the same thing was likely to occur in the modern day too.

You mention the role of women within the Chrtistian congregation, and I must say that the Bible's assigning of a secondary role to women within the congregation ( 1 Tim 2:11,12 ) was one of the many things that contributed to my abandoning Christianity. It was blatantly obvious to me that many sisters were more gifted teachers than many of the brothers, and yet the Bible prohibits them from becoming teachers within the congregation.

The Bible is clearly a product of its time, and whilst it contains much that is good and inspiring, it also contains alot that is unnecessarily limiting and harsh. Its a shame that Christians feel compelled to apply the Bible even in areas where it does more harm than good.

54

Comments You Will Not Year at the 3-12-06 WT Study(Witness/Nations)

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the march 12, 2006 wt study (february 1, 2006 issue, pages 22-26)(witness/nations).

review comments will be in red.

wt material from today's wt will be in black.

scout575

luna2: Obviously I can't deny your own experiences as a JW, and if you say you felt uncomfortable then I believe you entirely. All I can say is that I did feel comfortable. You say that JWs ruin lives and suck people dry, again I can't deny your own experience, but I have to say that it didn't ruin my life or suck me dry at all. I walked away from Christianity last September with no complaints, and feeling very well emotionally. I suspect that the old adage applies that 'one man's meat is another man's poison'.

I've read postings on the site about how people felt that they always had to do more, more, more as a JW, that nothing they did was ever good enough, that they felt that they could never please god. Again this wasn't my experience. I used to feel that doing all I reasonably could as a Christian WAS good enough, I thought that god WAS pleased with me, after all the Scripture does say that: "Wisdom from above is REASONABLE." ( James 3:17 ). Had I have gone beyong the point of doing all I reasonably could for god, THEN I would have had something to worry about because I would have been going against god's will as stated at James 3:17.

I'm now agnostic, and view the Bible as the work of man, but Iook back on my time as a JW with huge fondness. I have endless happy memories to reflect back on. Of course, things didn't always run smoothly for me ( thats life ) but, on the whole it was a very positive and happy life, and thats why I find the predominantly negative view of JWs on this site so baffling.

54

Comments You Will Not Year at the 3-12-06 WT Study(Witness/Nations)

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the march 12, 2006 wt study (february 1, 2006 issue, pages 22-26)(witness/nations).

review comments will be in red.

wt material from today's wt will be in black.

scout575

Blondie: You say: "Those of you who ever attended a congregation of JWs know the climate of fear and betrayal that exists." I spent 22 years as a JW in 4 congregations and never detected anything remotely resembling a climate of fear and betrayal. I often used to be chairman at the Sunday meeting, and found it difficult to get the brothers and sisters to take their seats, because of all the laughter and animated, good natured conversation that was going on. It was a joy to behold. Its hard to imagine anything further removed from a 'climate of fear and betrayal'.

62

As a JW how do/did you feel about 6 billion people being destroyed?

by jwfacts in

how else can a person justify that jehovah will destroy 6 billion people, innocent children included?

i could never accept that i deserved salvation whereas almost no one else did.

it put me on permanent spiritual edge because i thought the slave is right so the doctrine of destruction must be, but my heart always knew it was wrong.

scout575

Victorian sky: Of course there are many Scriptures that portray Jesus in a favourable light ( as is the case with Jehovah ). I was merely pointing out that that isn't the whole story. The Scriptures that I quoted present the unpalatable side of Jesus. I haven't made those Scriptures up, they are there in the Bible for all to see. They present Jesus as a blood thirsty avenging warrior. Read them again if you are in any doubt.

I notice that some Christians like to have a 'Disney-fied' view of the Bible. The fact is there is a very 'dark' side to Jesus and Jehovah that cannot be wished away.

I said that difellowshipping and shunning ( a Bible policy ) is tame, ONLY IN COMPRISON TO COUNTLESS OTHER MORE BARBARIC PUNISHMENTS DECREED BY GOD, like: 1 - Incineration ( Gen 19:24 ). 2 - Drowning - ( Gen 7:21 ) 3 - Eating by worms - ( Acts 12:23 ). 4 - Slaughter by the edge of the sword of men, women AND CHILDREN. - ( Joshua 10: 39 ). I could go on and on, but there's no need to. Victorian sky, you know the psycopathic barbarity that the god of the Bible is depicted as carrying out. COMPARED TO these grotesque punishments, disfellowshipping and shunning is indeed tame.

62

As a JW how do/did you feel about 6 billion people being destroyed?

by jwfacts in

how else can a person justify that jehovah will destroy 6 billion people, innocent children included?

i could never accept that i deserved salvation whereas almost no one else did.

it put me on permanent spiritual edge because i thought the slave is right so the doctrine of destruction must be, but my heart always knew it was wrong.

scout575

jwfacts: The elder's remark to you was barbaric in the extreme. However, if the apostle Paul had been asked whether non-Christians living at the time of god's judgement, deserve to die, what would have been his response? The answer seems blatantly obvious to me, after all, he wrote 2 Thess 1: 7-9. The heartless attitudes displayed by JWs come from a deeply flawed, ancient text that Christians have the temerity to call the HOLY Bible.

62

As a JW how do/did you feel about 6 billion people being destroyed?

by jwfacts in

how else can a person justify that jehovah will destroy 6 billion people, innocent children included?

i could never accept that i deserved salvation whereas almost no one else did.

it put me on permanent spiritual edge because i thought the slave is right so the doctrine of destruction must be, but my heart always knew it was wrong.

scout575

Victorian sky: You say that you 'thank god every day that you're free' of the JW religion. As a 'born again' Christian you believe in the Bible. Look at what the Bible says Jesus will do to people who don't practice Christianity: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels." ( Matt 24:41) "VENGEANCE on them that..obey not the gospel...punished with EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION." ( 2 Thess 1: 8,9 ) "SMITE the nations...rule them with a ROD OF IRON... he treadeth the winepress of the FIERCENESS and the WRATH of Almighty God." Victorian sky, have you jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire? If Jesus is portrayed as such a bloodthirsty avenging warrior, I'm sure he wouldn't bat an eyelid at something as comparitvely tame as disfellowshipping and shunning those Christians who abandon Christian 'standards'.

62

As a JW how do/did you feel about 6 billion people being destroyed?

by jwfacts in

how else can a person justify that jehovah will destroy 6 billion people, innocent children included?

i could never accept that i deserved salvation whereas almost no one else did.

it put me on permanent spiritual edge because i thought the slave is right so the doctrine of destruction must be, but my heart always knew it was wrong.

scout575

jwfacts: Your comments remind me of the saying that 'we don't see things the way they are, we see them the way WE are'. You would like the Bible to contain nothing that supposedly comes from god as being cold and heartless, and yet that is far from the case. Anyone reading 1 Corinthians 5:11 without any pre-suppositions, would interpret it as commanding Christians to shun fellow believers who practice the "sins' listed by Paul in that verse. This is quite obviously an extremely harsh Bible policy, but nowhere near as harsh as the way the Bible decreed 'sinners' should be treated under the Mosaic law. At Deuteronomy 21:18-23, god is portrayed as telling the Israelites to stone rebellious children to death, and then hang their dead bodies upon a tree. Clearly, the Bible is not sentimental about handing down extremely harsh punishments to people who don't do as they're told. The Bble's disfellowshipping ordinance at 1 Corinthians 5:11, seems quite tame when compared to the innumerable other barbarities that it says god decreed.

62

As a JW how do/did you feel about 6 billion people being destroyed?

by jwfacts in

how else can a person justify that jehovah will destroy 6 billion people, innocent children included?

i could never accept that i deserved salvation whereas almost no one else did.

it put me on permanent spiritual edge because i thought the slave is right so the doctrine of destruction must be, but my heart always knew it was wrong.

scout575

What helped me to cope with this Bible teaching is that Armageddon is said to come about as a result of the attack of 'Gog', and the 'king of the north' against God's people ( Eze 38:18-23; Dan 11:44,45 ). The Bible presents God as destroying the 'wicked' at Armageddon because of their attempt to wipe out his people. This 'reassuring' thought helped me a bit to come to terms with the prospect of the violent destruction of billions of people, although I did worry about all the nice old ladies that I knew, who would probably be hiding in their bungalows during the attack of Gog, rather than being out on the streets trying to duff up JWs, and yet they were still in line for 'the chop'.

It does have to be borne in mind that the Armageddon teaching is not the invention of JWs but comes straight from the pages of the Bible ( as does the disfellowshipping and shunning policy - 1 Cor 5:11 ). Being firm believers that the Bible is from God, JWs take the view ( as I did ) that God must know best, and that his destruction of the 'wicked' must be right. Even if the view is taken that it won't just be non-JWs who will be destroyed at Armageddon, but that it includes all people who don't practice Christianity, that would still mean that billions of people are in line for destruction at Armageddon. 1 Thess 1:7-9 says that: "The Lord Jesus Christ shall be revealed from from heaven...in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel...who shall be punished with everlasting destruction." Clearly, the Bible portrays Jesus as bringing violent destruction on all non-Christians, all who 'obey not the gospel'. Is it any wonder that a staunchly Bible believing group like JWs preach the destruction of the 'wicked'? How sad that they feel they have to believe this breathtakingly, barbaric Bible teaching.

37

Question about "good works" ??? ???

by Kristofer in

not ever having been a jw, i was curious to know something.... are witnesses ever encouraged to do good works for the less fortunate?

(giving to the poor, working in a soup kitchen, helping the elderly, other volunteer work, etc..).

i know scripture states you will know believers by their "fruit".

scout575

Honesty: The members of the WTS are all JWs.I have no reason to believe thet they are any different to the other countless lovely JWs that I knew throughout my 22 years of association with them. I count myself as very privileged to have been in their company for so long. Of course the WTS has made some disasterous mistakes over the years ( what religion hasn't? ). I'm not a JW anymore. I no longer believe the Bible to be inspired of God, and so I will never return to being a JW. I can criticise the WTS as much as I like, but I have to say that the publications of JWs had a very beneficial effect upon me. I'm glad that I read them, and would still read them today.

Whilst I don't deny that many people on this site DIDN'T enjoy their time as a JW, I have to say that I DID. It was obvious to me that most other JWs that I knew were also enjoying being JWs. Most JWs that I knew were genuinely spiritual, loving people. I was given great help, spiritual and practical, throughout my time with them. If the WTS were really as evil as many posters on this site say, I don't think that the JWs who are constantly exposed to their publications would be the good, Christian people that they are.

I know that my views aren't what many people on this site want to hear, but I'm not going to deny what I saw and heard and ENJOYED for so many years amongst JWs, just so that I can 'fit in' with the ethos of this site. Maybe I don't really belong here.

37

Question about "good works" ??? ???

by Kristofer in

not ever having been a jw, i was curious to know something.... are witnesses ever encouraged to do good works for the less fortunate?

(giving to the poor, working in a soup kitchen, helping the elderly, other volunteer work, etc..).

i know scripture states you will know believers by their "fruit".

scout575

Merry Magdalene: Of course it would be much, much better if JWs spent their time doing charitable work, but its hardly surprising that they 'major' on the preaching and disciple-making work, after all the Bible commands Christians to 'go therefore and make disciples.' ( Matt 28:19 )

If I still believed the Bible's warnings that Jesus is 'coming quickly' ( Rev 22:20 ) I would still be spending my spare time time trying to 'rescue' people from the "everlasting destruction" and the "flaming fire" that the Bible says will be inflicted on the countless millions of people ( like me now ) who "do not obey the gospel of our lord Jesus Christ." ( 2 Thess 1:8,9 ). If the Bible threatens violent destruction to those who aren't Christians, is it any wonder that JWs are so pre-occupied with their preaching work, and therefore limit the amount of time they spend helping people in practical ways. I blame the Bible for its dire threats of destruction.