Posts by uninformed

14

Could The Society Dump Circuit Overseers?

by metatron in

as with the above post in the "scandals" section, i have wondered for some years if the watchtower could be forced to get rid of circuit.

overseers.. the problem is that these itinerant enforcers are a direct link in liability to watchtower headquarters, as a hierarchy is.

or ignore, or whomever they hit with their cars - can lead to the society's "deep pockets".

uninformed

Garybuss,

A year or so ago the Society started billing congregations for the out of pocket expenses of the circuit servant and his wife, expenses like car purchase, travel expenses, and health insurance.

They actually did this in the early 90's. It was done throught the Circuit Assembly. Back then, his car payment and insurance was about a thousand a month and the Society would bill the whole Circuit, and pass a resolution at the assembly. It was then up to the local congs to satisfy the circuit organization.

Brant

29

The October Awake on Creation/Evolution!

by Gill in

i don't know if parts of this mag have been discussed.

i've been reading it slowly, and though evolution/creation is not an argument i want to get in to (each to his own) there are a few points that i'm going to bring out in the next week or so that 'irritated me'.. does science contradict the genesis account?.

page 19 subheading 'creations appear gradually'.

uninformed

Blueblades:

So too, It is my opinion that the writers of the Awake issue on Creation/Evolution reflect the world view of the Watchtower living at this time ,rather than actual historical facts. It is no wonder that the authors of these issues still remain unknown. Who are these guys? Where are their scholarly credentials?

The WT has very intelligently sent Bethel boys to LAW SCHOOL so that now, we have a RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION without ONE SCHOLAR, BUT fortunately we have 100 Lawyers in NY that are ready to defend the organization in court for false teachings.

Brant

18

What kind of personality does the organization attract?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

personality types

what kind of personality does the organization attract?

nice, gullible, under educated, naive?

uninformed

So be it:

Welcome to the group. It always encourages me to see older ones like myself here. I thought your comment was very thought provoking. Brant (uninformed)

When I was a child 70 years ago, there was an upper middle-class associated that really were not as active as the average witness is today, but they were more tolerant and kind. Then during the Depression, many of the working class joined. Heard some speak of their experiences in the Catholic Church as a reason. Many of the European born disliked what they saw in religion in the "old country" and now in America.
But today, I agree 100% with the thoughtful comments that have come from expereince and observation. But the second and third generation of J.W.'s have been so indoctrinated that their peripheral vision is nonexistent.

18

What kind of personality does the organization attract?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

personality types

what kind of personality does the organization attract?

nice, gullible, under educated, naive?

uninformed

Parakeet said:

As blondie pointed out, almost everyone faces these situations at one time or another. I think two additional personality traits are needed for susceptibility to JW belief -- a strong sense of justice and a strong desire for order. Adults who attracted to JWs want the world to make sense. They believe the good should always be rewarded and the evil always punished. They cannot tolerate the thought that the world is not always fair. For them, reality is unacceptable. There "must" be something better.

The JWs offer a plausible-sounding reason for the world's ambiguousness and a hope that god will correct all injustices quickly. They are good at finding people who NEED to believe that there must be a solution for the world's wrongs.

The emotional reward for these beliefs (security, certainty, hope) wraps the convert in a self-sufficient cocoon. They don't want to examine the religion's beliefs closely because that would tear apart their cocoons and leave them outside without hope in a seemingly cold world.

I believe emotional security so important to them that they become unable to defend their beliefs logically and they refuse to acknowledge the evil inside the organization. Emotionally, they can't afford to lose the only thing that allows them to make sense of everything.

Just want to tell you that I agree with this. Very thoughtful.

Brant

18

What kind of personality does the organization attract?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

personality types

what kind of personality does the organization attract?

nice, gullible, under educated, naive?

uninformed

I find that it attracts people with dependency and approval issues.
They can be extremely intelligent people but need someone to tell them what they can or can not do.
Or they are the type that are constantly seeking approval. They need someone to say good job, well done, keep it up. True - there is a lot of feedback in the org quite opposite to this however when it does happen it seems to make them forget all the bad.
My two cents

Miss Peaches wrote the above:

I think you hit it square with that comment. My own life supports that. Always needed the 'pat on the back'!

A friend of mine too used to say that the WT attracted people that saw an opportunity to dominate others or 'be in charge', as many of them never were able to have that kind of station in life any other way.

Brant

29

The October Awake on Creation/Evolution!

by Gill in

i don't know if parts of this mag have been discussed.

i've been reading it slowly, and though evolution/creation is not an argument i want to get in to (each to his own) there are a few points that i'm going to bring out in the next week or so that 'irritated me'.. does science contradict the genesis account?.

page 19 subheading 'creations appear gradually'.

uninformed

I have always had a little problem myself with the "swaddling band" theory.

The Genesis account says:

(Genesis 1:14-19) 14

And God went on to say: "Let luminaries come to be in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night; and they must serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years. 15 And they must serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth." And it came to be so. 16 And God proceeded to make the two great luminaries, the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for dominating the night, and also the stars. 17 Thus God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth, 18 and to dominate by day and by night and to make a division between the light and the darkness. Then God saw that [it was] good. 19 And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fourth day.

If this was accomplished before humans were here as indicated, when they did get here they would have been able to see the stars, moon and sun. But if there were a thick band of moisture that covered the earth and gave it a green house effect, I don't know how they could have seen the stars.

However, if the band were more like Saturn's ring, possibly it could still work.

Anyone else ever think about it?

Brant

46

Let's All Say "Thank You" To The People Who Run This Site

by Arthur in

jw
friends

i realize that threads like this have been done before, but i don't think that it hurts to do one again.. i personally appreciate this website so much.

it has been an absolute treasure-trove of information, research material, emotional support, and simple enjoyment.

and, it's free of charge!

uninformed

By all means, thank you so much.

there are so many posters on this site that know so much and how to find it. I for one am really grateful to all.

Brant

61

HOW MANY ARE LEAVING?

by zev in

jw
friends

i see lots of names here that i don't know, and with the wt on a campain to keep its followers from looking at "unaproved sites" .

i've got to wonder.....what are the stats?

how many are leaving ?

uninformed

The Witnesses who die before Armageddon just as well have never been Witnesses. There's no advantage for them at all. If they die before Armageddon they obviously were not a part of the "great crowd" and if they were not a part of the "great crowd" they can't be "other sheep" either. They are just dead in a common sinner's grave waiting re-creation in a perfect replica body for judging along with the sinners who lived the life the Witnesses didn't live.

They have all paid for their sins by their personal deaths because the wages sin pays is death. What benefit is there for a Witness who dies before Armageddon that their non-Witness neighbor does not have?

The cart's ahead of the horse. The "great crowd" is identified after Armageddon, not before. The "great crowd" is identified as people LIVING through Armageddon.

The Society isn't reminding Witnesses of this element of their teaching for obvious reasons:-)

Gary, hope you are well. You are still right on target. Every time I read one of your posts, I wish I had written it.

Brant

61

HOW MANY ARE LEAVING?

by zev in

jw
friends

i see lots of names here that i don't know, and with the wt on a campain to keep its followers from looking at "unaproved sites" .

i've got to wonder.....what are the stats?

how many are leaving ?

uninformed

s4, blondie and all,

this has been a great thread. enjoyed your comments.

i too believe that the world would be a better place without mind control religions.

I thought that is why Jesus was coming.

Brant

39

How would witnesses respond to this quote?

by gumby in

1991. watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania.

publishers.

watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc.. international bible students association.

uninformed

Blondie,

Good quote.

The elder who saw to it that I was disfellowshipped had a son df'd a couple of months earlier. The 25 year old kid moved back into the elders home, FOR CONVENIENCE, and as far as I know he wasn't removed. All I know is that he disfellowshipped me for not liking the WT/NGO alliance.

Brant