when i was going to meetings i raised a question at the book study when the daniel book was being covered.
when nebuchadnezzar had the image built all the people including all the rulers including the hebrew ones were commanded to bow to the image.
it was brought to the attention of neb that three hebrews had not bowed down and it resulted in them being saved from the feiry furnace by an angel.. my question was then, where was daniel?
OOps
Peacefulpete
Is it possible that Neb viewed Daniel and the other three as SPIRITUALLY different from the Babylonian seers, knowing their history perhaps, and therefore Daniel was not included to interpret dreams ,and daniel had to approach the king to inform him that he knew the future. Of course this would have then surprised the king enough to give Daniel an audience.
when i was going to meetings i raised a question at the book study when the daniel book was being covered.
when nebuchadnezzar had the image built all the people including all the rulers including the hebrew ones were commanded to bow to the image.
it was brought to the attention of neb that three hebrews had not bowed down and it resulted in them being saved from the feiry furnace by an angel.. my question was then, where was daniel?
Peaceful pete
when i was going to meetings i raised a question at the book study when the daniel book was being covered.
when nebuchadnezzar had the image built all the people including all the rulers including the hebrew ones were commanded to bow to the image.
it was brought to the attention of neb that three hebrews had not bowed down and it resulted in them being saved from the feiry furnace by an angel.. my question was then, where was daniel?
Thanks Blondie , I did find that article before I went to the book study back then and was not satisfied with it and that motivates me to query it with the group ,and used it to make the point that we should think about what we are trying to learn........made me about as popular as hailstones on a summers day!
Leolaia
I am anxious to read your work as I am looking forward to another viewpoint apart from WT lies and deception.
when i was going to meetings i raised a question at the book study when the daniel book was being covered.
when nebuchadnezzar had the image built all the people including all the rulers including the hebrew ones were commanded to bow to the image.
it was brought to the attention of neb that three hebrews had not bowed down and it resulted in them being saved from the feiry furnace by an angel.. my question was then, where was daniel?
When I asked this question looking to all in the group a sister irritably said "well we have all asked that question!" as if to say " well we've covered that so don't go there!"
Then I looked at others and they all stated looking elsewhere ,so I said that we should ask these things not just read un thinkingly back the answers from the book!
Well this went down really badly especially with the Elder taking the study......yes I say STUDY is'nt that a thinking process, and I guess that reveals the attitude most take as witnesses.
But I still want a decent answer to this - I could'nt get it from JW's strangely!!!?!
when i was going to meetings i raised a question at the book study when the daniel book was being covered.
when nebuchadnezzar had the image built all the people including all the rulers including the hebrew ones were commanded to bow to the image.
it was brought to the attention of neb that three hebrews had not bowed down and it resulted in them being saved from the feiry furnace by an angel.. my question was then, where was daniel?
When I was going to meetings I raised a question at the book study when the Daniel book was being covered.
When Nebuchadnezzar had the image built all the people including ALL the rulers including the Hebrew ones were commanded to bow to the image. It was brought to the attention of Neb that THREE Hebrews had not bowed down and it resulted in them being saved from the feiry furnace by an angel.
My question was then, WHERE WAS DANIEL? as he was one of the rulers ,did he bow down or was he away or is this evidence of Bible innacuracy? The Society hedges away by saying wherever he was he was faithful because later he was tested by the lion pit. But EVERYONE was supposed to be there ,Daniel was a prized ruler in Babylon he should have been there .
Anyone help me here in their research?
i have two cats.
brother and sister.
good cats and i love 'em, but the male cat is really clingy.. it's usually no problem, but every time i answer the phone, the male cat immediately jumps on my lap, demanding attention.. it makes it really challenging when i am at the computer, attempting to search files, etc.
<------- My dog gets jealous of the grand children and jumps on my lap to claim her turf B4 they do!
prof lester l. grabbe on rolf furuli's "oslo chronology":.
"once again we have an amateur who wants to rewrite scholarship" (jsot 28:5 [2004], p. 42).. ...celebrated wt scholars?
--augustin --
Jeffro I was in QLD for a few years what part are you from, we lived near Caboolture?
prof lester l. grabbe on rolf furuli's "oslo chronology":.
"once again we have an amateur who wants to rewrite scholarship" (jsot 28:5 [2004], p. 42).. ...celebrated wt scholars?
--augustin --
I certainly agree with posters saying that scholars responses have opened up illuminating debate.
From this type of post it inspired me to find out more and I purchased the Jonnson book and studied it objectively. Just because I left the organisation does not mean I can not look at things critically, like many i guess ,I've been burned by putting my life and TRUST into the GB teachings and found dissillusionment after much study within the Org and it's teachings.
Now i have been put in contact with another viewpoint through Jonnson and the properly trained scholars of this world . It has led me to a greater understanding of actual history and not the narrow thinking of the GB on this 607 business.
If it were not for forums like this and books that others write I could not come to a proper viewpoint on this topic, which when I was a JW, was a non issue as I trusted blindly the GB even after reading the appendix in the back of the Kingdom book.
I guess even after researching (to find out if you as a bible student should trust the JW Org and get baptised ) ,one can only have so much time to do this and when you are pressured to advance spiritually by your study conductor , the average person tends to just rely on what they have learnt and give into it.
But now with freer access to information through the internet we all can quickly check up on things whereas when I studied the JW way it was difficult to get info to test what the witnesses say.I am just so thankful for the debate on this topic as I would not have known the ramifications of not accepting the 607 date ,for this argument as to the correctness of that date and the alternative of 587/586 historically proving 607 to be false just crumbles all of the Watchtowers teachings .
Scholar - you seem very determined to put aside others thinking ,much like some Elders I've questioned doctine with who get irritated very quickly when asked to prove from the societies books .To me it seemed this came from an insecurity to deal with and answer properly a question about something they deep down felt was wrong but cannot break away from the official stance however ludicrous. I guess it is wrong when people here call you names but his may be bourne out of people having in the past faced dogmatic Elders who are teaching things that are borrowed from the "Mother" and don't really understand matters themselves ,that is the Elders ,by not being educated fully in specialist fields. When someone comes up to them with more knowlege they feel threatened and I guess this maybe what Franz is talking about when he seems to indicate that the Society is so "HUMAN" and lacking true holy spirit direction.
Please keep commenting Scholar as I believe you really are doing people a service here.(no sarcasm intended) as it is hard for us to get to our former associates and tell them a different angle to the "TRUTH" ,but you are opening up the JW doubters/lurkers a world of info.
someone in a completely different segment of associates from you old ex-jws here posed this wish:.
i've often wished someone would do a study to see if there is a real correlation between personality type and religious/spiritual leanings.
i've long noticed that in fantasy subcultures and "new" religions, as well as those that attract many adult converts (and have trouble retaining people born into the faith), the same types keep showing up.
Daystar - I remember years ago in our large territory whilst witnessing I would come across members of a certain Pentecostal group and just about invariably the lived in homes that were filthy and untidy yards ,cars were junk boxes ,kids with snotty noses ,wives unkempt with thick lensed old fashioned glasses ,and the men were ratty little men that were bearded and untidy. It made me wonder back then if religions attracted certain types of people even in their physical body types so I'm glad you brought this up.
from the "official" wt site comes this gem:.
for a man who was a child molester before he was baptized, there may be another consequence.
when he learns the truth, he repents and turns around, not bringing that cruel sin into the congregation.
Thanks for posting this Ozzie. Both my wife and I are victims, me outside the org and my wife inside by her Elder father at the time.
We had been trying to get her matter settled for 12 years with no success. Recently we again approached the Elders to settle it but had to wait many weeks before we got a visit that we requested . I asked them to use what evidence we had and to question other family members just as the police do when a crime is committed, the police interrogate witnesses to get a proper view of the accusation. But not the Elders, when they came back a couple of weeks later they had not questioned any one ,not even the perpetrator who had a commitee case over this matter 12 years previous, they hedged around all my questions and admitted all they had done was ring Sydney Bethel again . The answers they were given were different from what my wife was told when she rang Bethel during this period.
And it is true, they say just go to meetings ,field etc but this really only compounds the problem ,for you know that you are then sharing in the same work that your perpetrator is doing for the same Lord and no-one in his congregation is wise to the fact that a molester is in their midst. Very faith shattering!
I pointed out to the Elders that I had a copy of a English letter to BOE stating it is OK to have some molesters as Elders and they declined to look at it even though I pointed out it was witnessed by a Solicitor!
Then I critisized them for not questioning my wifes relatives for we know at least one of them was also molested but has not come forward for fear of the family and the congo ,and again they avoided my questioning ,and when I asked what if the police were called in ,the senior Elder said it would be best not to involve Jehovahs name!!!!
Well I just blew up then and asked him if he thought Jehovah could not defend his own name and that God expected victims of pedophile to do that too for God!!!
NO ANSWER
Sick is'nt it? We are now left alone with any congregation members avoiding us like the plague............AND THEY ARE CHRISTIANS?!?
