Our study conductor actually mentioned something like: "You could think that since the generation doctrine has changed in '95 that if they where wrong on that one why should I listen to rest that the FDS is telling? How should we think about that?"
Someone gave the answer that if you look in the revelation book there is a box that says that the FDS is not inspired and could be wrong. So we should not make a big point about it.
The conductor then said yes we should be happy that after the FDS had carefully studied the bible again and they found out that that doctrine should be changed, that is was good thing they are looking after us.
This is such double speak... If they are wrong then it is all like, look we are not inspired we don't really know what we where doing it's not our fault we are only imperfect humans. But let's take the current understanding for instance on the blood doctrine, you should be willing to give your life for the current understanding by the FDS of that doctrine. They could change that doctrine in the future (they already modified it several times) and then the FDS says whoops look we are not inspired and only imperfect humans. If you disagree with the current "truth" you are being disfellowshipped because you are going against Jehovah etc etc. And you have no hope on getting in paradise. I find it unbelievable that all those people in the hall don't see that.
Posts by GBSJG
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42Comments You Will Not Hear at the 8-27-06 WT Study (FOCUS ORGANIZATION)
by blondie incomments you will not hear at the 08-27-06 wt study (july 15, 2006, pages 19-24 )(focus on organization).
review comments will be in red.
wt material from today's wt will be in black.
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GBSJG
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39
Discussion with my parents about WTS
by GBSJG inafter reading for a few months this is my first post here.
i was raised a jehovah's witness by my parents who became jw's in the late '70s from field service.
i'm still a jw but doing a lot of researching on the history of the wts.
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GBSJG
I finally got Crisis of Conscience. When it was delivered at my door I saw the CO in field service on the other side of my street... If only he knew.
I'm having more and more problems with going to the meetings, because I don't believe it anymore. Last night the bookstudy was about angels. The conductor asked: Have anyone experienced how angels have helped them? You can imagine the answers that where giving and then I'm just sitting there and thinking how could I have every believed that. Answers like some JWs where not harmed by the Nazis or not discovered that must be work of an angel. And then I think what about the 2000 JWs that have died there where was the angel then?
It always come down to that all the good things are the work of Jehovah or angels and all the bad things come from demons and Satan. If I think logical about it I just can't seem to believe that.
Some others on this board have said that they left the Organization when they got a feeling during the meetings that they where different then all the other people there and now I get that same feeling. -
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ANNOUNCEMENT Going Undercover To Rescue My Daughter....con't
by hopie incontinuation...my hunsband and i were jehovah's witnesses for over 40 years , and my husband an elder for 15 years in orange, calif. we resigned in 1983, and lost our daughter to this cult for 10 years.after all the efforts to communicate failed, i decided to rejoin and become a member again in 1993. we were labled "apostates" and their policy forced my daughted to not talk to us.
i took this action only so i could communicate with her and eventurally show her their cult-like errors.. i was encouraged by my family to write about my two year rescue journey.
in it i explain the stuggle of de-programming her through this process, plus the exposing of her elder husband as a (child molester), also the organizational structure, how they operate as a goverment within a goverment, and do not disclose to the civil authorities crimes committed by their members.
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GBSJG
I think this is the book on MSN: http://shopping.msn.com/prices/shp/?itemId=555893150
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Were dinosaurs part of a pre-Adamic "paradise"?
by M.J. inthe wts seems to affirm a lot that adam's blunder really screwed up the earth, and that the earth was not meant to be this place full of killing, disease, death, pain, etc.. but according to the wts version of the story, did god create the earth with these types of features before adam even came on the scene?
the wts does not deny the existance of dinosaurs, who in their words were created prior to mankind during the 5th or 6th symbolic day-ages.
yet its clear from fossilized remains that dinosaurs killed each other, had a high mortality rate, often died young, suffered from disease such as cancerous tumors: .
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GBSJG
I have found one reference that before Adams sin animals did not eat each other:
Watchtower 1994 2/1 page 31:
"Nonetheless, evidence in the Bible points to Adam and Eve’s having been at peace with all animals. Some of the creatures may have been quite comfortable around humans, even benefiting from the nearness. Others were wild beasts, animals that naturally sought habitat away from humans. (Genesis 1:25, 30; 2:19) Yet, the Bible does not suggest that any of the animals preyed upon other animals or upon humans. Originally, God specifically assigned vegetation as the diet for both animals and humans. (Genesis 1:29, 30; 7:14-16) That did not change until after the Flood, as Genesis 9:2-5 indicates."
But I haven't found a reference that there weren't any diseases, before Adams sin, among animals. -
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Were dinosaurs part of a pre-Adamic "paradise"?
by M.J. inthe wts seems to affirm a lot that adam's blunder really screwed up the earth, and that the earth was not meant to be this place full of killing, disease, death, pain, etc.. but according to the wts version of the story, did god create the earth with these types of features before adam even came on the scene?
the wts does not deny the existance of dinosaurs, who in their words were created prior to mankind during the 5th or 6th symbolic day-ages.
yet its clear from fossilized remains that dinosaurs killed each other, had a high mortality rate, often died young, suffered from disease such as cancerous tumors: .
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GBSJG
I have done some searches on the WT Library and I can find some articles that mention that animals have always died and will even die in paradise:
Awake 1993 1/22 page 26:
"It was not God’s purpose for animals to live forever. Their limited life span is not due to the sin of Adam and Eve and the subsequent inheritance of sin and death, as is the case with humans."
Awake 1972 7/8 page 5:
"Other creatures,’ as “unreasoning animals,” are not capable of conscious or willful sin against God. Hence their death is simply due to natural processes; the general life-span built into their genetic makeup from the beginning. This will continue to be true even in God’s promised new order by his Son’s righteous kingdom, when death inherited by humans from Adam “will be no more.”"
But I can't find that from the moment that Adam has sinned animals get diseases and eat each other can anyone find that in the WT Library? -
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September KM - 70 alterations in Revelation Climax Book
by dozy ini can't find a thread on this subject yet - if there is one , please delete this one.. the september kingdom ministry has a 4 page insert detailing the 70 alterations in the revelation climax book which is due to be studied at the book study shortly.
i'll provide scans if anyone is interested.. i will leave it up to more experienced analysts to examine the reasons for specific changes , but just a few brief observations for now:.
p32 box - "they were completely exonerated" changed to "charges against them were dropped" - interesting change of terminology for the 1918 watchtower eight.
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GBSJG
When I told my mother about this she just said that it was very good. It's amazing how this works in a dub's mind. They seem to get all exicted if there are 70 errors in a book which they have studied already. They actually see it as a positive thing. Also nobody questions why they don't reprint the book.
From another pro-JW forum some users made these comments about the september KM:
"I find it so special, considering the things we learned at the DC that the end is so near we have to stay awake."
"Something with sheeps and goats... The light of truth is really getting brighter."
Sometimes those comments makes me wonder what must happen before a real JW will consider it as bad news? -
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Why does god allow suffering?
by GBSJG ini always had trouble with answering that question.
if there is a god why is there so much suffering?
so i looked up the offical explanation of the wts in the bible teach book chapter 11 paragraph 12 says: let us consider an illustration.
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GBSJG
Some JW's also explain it that Jehovah only wants people that worship him with their free will he doesn't want robots. So that's why you have a choice between Satan and Jehovah. But that doesn't make sense either what is free will if you have two choices one leads to eternal life and the other to death that's no free choice you will only obey to God out of fear.
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Why does god allow suffering?
by GBSJG ini always had trouble with answering that question.
if there is a god why is there so much suffering?
so i looked up the offical explanation of the wts in the bible teach book chapter 11 paragraph 12 says: let us consider an illustration.
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GBSJG
I always had trouble with answering that question. If there is a god why is there so much suffering?
So I looked up the offical explanation of the WTS in the Bible Teach book Chapter 11 Paragraph 12 says: Let us consider an illustration. Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult problem. A clever but rebellious student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. Implying that the teacher is not capable, this rebel insists that he knows a much better way to solve the problem. Some students think that he is right, and they also become rebellious. What should the teacher do? If he throws the rebels out of the class, what will be the effect on the other students? Will they not believe that their fellow student and those who joined him are right? All the other students in the class might lose respect for the teacher, thinking that he is afraid of being proved wrong. But suppose that the teacher allows the rebel to show the class how he would solve the problem.
But I don't think this is a fair illustration. Because if you let the rebel student proof his point there is no harm done or suffering. So how should the illustration look like then? Perhaps the rebel student must have said that to proof that he is right half of the class should cut off a finger and he must shoot the other half of the class death to proof his point. And then you have the almighty teacher which can stop the process at anytime but he just sit there and does nothing. Isn't he bloodguilty then?
The WTS always explains that God is not the cause of evil but that he doesn't intervene and let Satan do what he wants. Another illustration is if you are on the sidewalk and you see a little kid who is about to cross the street but at that moment there is a big truck coming that's going to hit that kid. And you stand there and could easily stop the kid from crossing the street and save his life but instead you do nothing and the kid dies and all you say is "I didn't cause the death it's the truckdriver".
And if armageddon is all over and we are living in paradise etc etc. What if there is another rebellious angel that says he knows better and says he isn't anything like Satan was. God then again must allow this rebel to show if he is right or not.
The reasoning just doesn't make any sense to me. Any toughts about this? Did you also had trouble with this when you still was a JW? -
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Pictures of the 2006 International DC in Hamburg Germany
by GBSJG ini haven't been there but i did found a site which contains some pictures for those who are interrested:.
http://www.janvestergaard.dk/hamborg/.
275 where baptised in age from 9 - 75 on a total of 38.425 attending.. .
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GBSJG
Just to be clear there where 275 people baptized.
The youngest was 9 years and the oldest was 75.
It amazes me that they mention this as if it is a positive thing to be baptized at the age of 9 years old. -
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Pictures of the 2006 International DC in Hamburg Germany
by GBSJG ini haven't been there but i did found a site which contains some pictures for those who are interrested:.
http://www.janvestergaard.dk/hamborg/.
275 where baptised in age from 9 - 75 on a total of 38.425 attending.. .
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GBSJG
I haven't been there but I did found a site which contains some pictures for those who are interrested:
http://www.janvestergaard.dk/hamborg/
275 where baptised in age from 9 - 75 on a total of 38.425 attending.
On this picture you can see a banner being held at the end of the convention saying "See you in paradise".
