Thanks for posting the link. At the end he mentioned that he was an Elder for 11 years. I think that is also the reason why the elders on the JC where very easy on him. If you compare this tape to the one of SickOfLies where the debate was more heated. He also mentioned the Mexico Malawi thing and that his source was Raymond Franz but the Elders didn't get al excited about apostate sources etc. like they did with SickOfLies.
Posts by GBSJG
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14Judicial Committee on tape ... one of my favorites
by ithinkisee inthis is a judicial meeting recording from the mid-80's, where rick and laverne townsend were brought up on charges of apostasy.
listen to the calm manner in which they refute the elders (especially 607 and 1914) and how the elders get evasive and dodge questions and pretty much bring up nothing biblical.
http://www.worldisbroken.com/.
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Biting my tongue at last nights bookstudy
by GBSJG inso i went to last nights bookstudy which discusses 6 paragraphs of the daniel book so there was lots of room for comment.
the study itself already was pretty frustrating it was taken from chapter 17 paragraphs 24-29 and it goes on about how the fds has to be lead by jehovah because of all the prophecies of daniel that fits them (1335 days was this convention to that etc etc).
but the paragraphs also mention the failed prediction for 1925. here are some interresting quotes from the book: .
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GBSJG
M.J. thank you for the links to Littletoe it's very interresting to read.
And yes the brother did say calculator I didn't realise that they didn't have these things in 1920s ;) -
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Biting my tongue at last nights bookstudy
by GBSJG inso i went to last nights bookstudy which discusses 6 paragraphs of the daniel book so there was lots of room for comment.
the study itself already was pretty frustrating it was taken from chapter 17 paragraphs 24-29 and it goes on about how the fds has to be lead by jehovah because of all the prophecies of daniel that fits them (1335 days was this convention to that etc etc).
but the paragraphs also mention the failed prediction for 1925. here are some interresting quotes from the book: .
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GBSJG
Actually trevor it was a direct quot from the study book (Daniels Prophecy) You can find it in Chapter 17 Pargraph 25:
25 Even after the convention in 1922 (shown on page 302), some of God’s holy ones were still looking longingly to the past. The basic study material for their meetings was still the Bible and the volumes of Studies in the Scriptures, by C. T. Russell. At that time, there was a widely held view that pointed to 1925 as the year for the resurrection to begin and for Paradise to be restored to the earth. Thus, many were serving with a fixed date in mind. Some proudly refused to share in the work of preaching to the public. This was not a happy state of affairs.
But indeed the WTS never directly admits that they where the ones that came up with these dates. You will never see an apology but instead they will blame the R&F for thinking that way. -
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Biting my tongue at last nights bookstudy
by GBSJG inso i went to last nights bookstudy which discusses 6 paragraphs of the daniel book so there was lots of room for comment.
the study itself already was pretty frustrating it was taken from chapter 17 paragraphs 24-29 and it goes on about how the fds has to be lead by jehovah because of all the prophecies of daniel that fits them (1335 days was this convention to that etc etc).
but the paragraphs also mention the failed prediction for 1925. here are some interresting quotes from the book: .
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GBSJG
Yes you start thinking are they al so stupid or am I so smart? On the other hand there was a time that I used to believe this, somehow you don't notice these things or you don't want to see it.
I find that one of the hardest things of the org that you are not allow to think independent. As others have pointed out the org has won many court cases defending freedom of speech but it's not allowed in the org itself. -
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What comment will you make at the New Light Watchtower Study this weekend
by jwfacts ingbsjg just made a comment that the watchtower will feature the article on 'new light' this weekend.
what a perfect opportunity for a visiting brother to a congregation (or incognito apostate) to answer with some honest and thought provoking comments.
"i find it interesting that the watchtower criticises some religions for not changing their old doctrines and creeds, and other religions that do progressively change them for having had them wrong in the first place, and yet we seem to be doing the same ourselves.".
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35
Biting my tongue at last nights bookstudy
by GBSJG inso i went to last nights bookstudy which discusses 6 paragraphs of the daniel book so there was lots of room for comment.
the study itself already was pretty frustrating it was taken from chapter 17 paragraphs 24-29 and it goes on about how the fds has to be lead by jehovah because of all the prophecies of daniel that fits them (1335 days was this convention to that etc etc).
but the paragraphs also mention the failed prediction for 1925. here are some interresting quotes from the book: .
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GBSJG
When I was 13 or something I can remember that on a sunday WT study there was a stranger in the hall and he put up his hand at a paragraph and got the mic and instead of giving an answer he asked a question. I can't remember what he actually asked but the reply he got was that they would explain it to him personally after the study. I'm still wondering if it was a apostate kind of question that he had asked.
I guess if you want to DA/DF it is very tempting to before you actually get DA/DF to do a no 4 talk or something explain about the UN thing and the 607/586, child abuse etc. I mean in the 5 minutes you can talk about a lot. And encourage the people to do some research for themselve to see if what you are telling them is wrong or the real truth.
What would happen if you do that? Would you be carried of stage during your talk by the elders? Or will everyone immediatly shun you and never mind doing the research. I think perhaps you would make some people curious and maybe plant a little seed of doubt. -
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Biting my tongue at last nights bookstudy
by GBSJG inso i went to last nights bookstudy which discusses 6 paragraphs of the daniel book so there was lots of room for comment.
the study itself already was pretty frustrating it was taken from chapter 17 paragraphs 24-29 and it goes on about how the fds has to be lead by jehovah because of all the prophecies of daniel that fits them (1335 days was this convention to that etc etc).
but the paragraphs also mention the failed prediction for 1925. here are some interresting quotes from the book: .
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GBSJG
geven disregard my PM to you as I did not see your complete post at that time.
I did noticed and also have read about it on this board that indeed the dates don't even correctly match up. When I talk about this with other JWs they generally say that they are not sure about all the calculation and dates that the WTS uses and that it's not important for there faith. -
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Biting my tongue at last nights bookstudy
by GBSJG inso i went to last nights bookstudy which discusses 6 paragraphs of the daniel book so there was lots of room for comment.
the study itself already was pretty frustrating it was taken from chapter 17 paragraphs 24-29 and it goes on about how the fds has to be lead by jehovah because of all the prophecies of daniel that fits them (1335 days was this convention to that etc etc).
but the paragraphs also mention the failed prediction for 1925. here are some interresting quotes from the book: .
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GBSJG
It's true the comments that the dubs make are worse then what is in print.
On another meeting an elder gave a answer and he talked about why Jehovah allowed for the dubs to come up with so many wrong dates. He believed Jehovah did that just to increase the preaching work, because with a date in mind there organisation really grow during that period.
He forgets that after such a period a lot of people leave the organisation just for the reason that the prophecy failed. And if what he is saying is true then that means the Jehovahs is willingly misleading his organistation to increase it's numbers. And in the time that has gone by the world population has increased with far more than the dubs have.
This weekend the WT study will discuss an article that will go over all the new light and new doctrines that has changed the org. I can bet that there will be much of these terrible comments made at the meeting. -
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Biting my tongue at last nights bookstudy
by GBSJG inso i went to last nights bookstudy which discusses 6 paragraphs of the daniel book so there was lots of room for comment.
the study itself already was pretty frustrating it was taken from chapter 17 paragraphs 24-29 and it goes on about how the fds has to be lead by jehovah because of all the prophecies of daniel that fits them (1335 days was this convention to that etc etc).
but the paragraphs also mention the failed prediction for 1925. here are some interresting quotes from the book: .
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GBSJG
So I went to last nights bookstudy which discusses 6 paragraphs of the Daniel book so there was lots of room for comment.
The study itself already was pretty frustrating it was taken from Chapter 17 Paragraphs 24-29 and it goes on about how the FDS has to be lead by Jehovah because of all the prophecies of Daniel that fits them (1335 days was this convention to that etc etc). But the paragraphs also mention the failed prediction for 1925. Here are some interresting quotes from the book:
"At that time, there was a widely held view that pointed to 1925 as the year for the resurrection to begin and for Paradise to be restored to the earth. Thus, many were serving with a fixed date in mind."
"After 1925 passed, the holy ones no longer served God with an immediate, explicit deadline in view."
- So after the date passed they understand that they where wrong "With all these prophetic marks to identify “the holy ones of the Supreme One,” what excuse can there be for failure to recognize them and associate with them?"
But what really was frustating was the comments the dubs made during the bookstudy:
"Some people used there calculator and some vague formula's to come to the 1925 date."
- Ok and how about how we come to 1914 is that not vague and using formula's?
"You must not follow people but Jehovah."
- Wait a minute the GB is supposed to be lead by Jehovah so you must follow them but if they make a mistake then it's not Jehovah that made the mistake but then the GB are just people and you must not follow them?
"You must look at what the bible says, 1925 is not in there."
- The 1925 date was explained at the time using the bible and some calculations, just as 1914 is explained at this time so how is that different then?
"There are a lot of different religions who share some doctrines with us like the adventists. But we are the only ones that are preaching so that is a sign that Jehovah is with us and not with the other organisations, they tried preaching but they failed."
- And what about the mormons, they are activly preaching in our area?
"Some people where calculating from the generation from 1914 when it was about to end, but you shouldn't do that. After the doctrine change i've heard some people complaining that the end was so far away. Some people are now make a career in the world because they think it's far away, but it's not, we should just trust Jehovah and be faithfull like the JW did in 1920 etc."
- But those people where also told that the end was near and it still hasn't come they could have easily made a career in the world. How is this time different then?
There was actually one brother who did know of beth-sarim and mentioned that that period was pretty strange because they where building houses for when the princes would return etc etc, but a few paragraphs later all the failed predictions and other stupid things must be forgotten and only the other things must be remembered so that you can say that all these things identify that Jehovah is with his organisation and that they truly are the FDS. Can you be that blind?
Last night really got me thinking how do the dubs justify all the errors that where made and still believe that the org is led by Jehovah. It's very interresting to see how they justify that. It seems like they blame it on people whenever the annointed are wrong and whenever they are right it is a sign that they are led by Jehovah. That is also the way the the WT brings it when there is a change of doctrine they always blame the R&F for calculating.
I gave one comment during the study that was when the conductor asked after telling about the generation change what else has changed during that time? So I could mention the seperation of the sheeps and the goats, what I really wanted to say is that the current understanding is actually the same as the first one so how is the light getting brighter then if we return to previous beliefs?
It was very difficult for me to not comment and ask critical questions or to tell the real truth. Has anyone of you ever give a comment and told the real truth? -
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Floppy 2005 WT Bound Volume
by stillajwexelder inwell i have finally got my 2005 watchtower bound volume (not the awake just yet) and it is very thin flimsy plastic covered paper - really weird after about over 100 years of hardback bound volumes.
talk about saving money - for a reference book i would say this is a step too far -what next - the insight books in paperback?
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GBSJG
So I understand that in the US the 2005 WT Bound volume is the first with a softcover?
Here in the netherlands the WT and Awake bound volumes are published in softcovers for several years already.