AudeSapere

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Posts by AudeSapere

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  22

  elders would like a talk with me

  by varian in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi everyone.. i recently had a phone call from an elder of my former cong.

  they would like to chat with me, and obviously want to encourage me to come back.. to make a long story short: the last 4 or five years i was a jw in their kh, i was more or less completly ignored.

  had in that time no phone calls, visits or any interest how i felt etc.

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  AudeSapere

  If you *do* decide to meet with him/them, I would strongly encourage you to not attack doctrine or admit *ANY* activity that they would consider questionable as they will likely use that information against you and take judicial action. Don't engage them in any topic/subject.

  Admit nothing but feeling discouraged by the complete lack of love shown withing the congregation.

  If they say 'imperfect' people. Call them on that bs line. If nothing else, members of a loving organization group will reach out to a member when they take ill. Send a card, bring soup, offer a ride home. Something.

  Discouragement and depression without elaborating on any specifics seem to be the only acceptable 'excuses' for not attending meetings. Well, not really acceptable, but mildly tolerated.

  Admit *nothing* about beliefs or actions or friendships or affiliations or relationships, if you want to avoid the DF or DA label.

  Please come back and tell us how the meeting or conversation goes.

  -Aude.
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  18

  What makes people ok with shunning?

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it almost seems easy to some... or like a weird funny feeling like they are doing something wrong if they go against something inside of them and actually speak to marked (people they are told to shun) people.. (sorry to be bias in this but only exaggerate circumstances to make my point).

  jehovah's witness for one are known to shun disfellowshipped members.. but also there is:.

  popular kids at schools who shun unpopular kids at school.. rich people who ignore poor people.. some whites that are still racest shun black and vs.. some older proper/religious ones with high moral standards shunn or at least look down one the rebels.. ...seriously does it make life easier for them or something?.

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  AudeSapere

  ...Seriously does it make life easier for them or something?

  I think in many cases, it does make life easier. JWs don't need to think for themselves, Infact they are told that independent thinking is divisive and idolatrous (in that it elevates oneself above the FDS and, in some cases, even Jehovah himself). For them and others who shun/avoid/'look down on' it helps them keep focused on their primary goal in life, whatever that may be. They have formed or adopted a belief system and life goal or life style that is dependent on that belief system.

  What would make them change?

  Many chose not to change even when faced with extreme evidence that change would be in their own best interest. Often it is an unexpected humbling life experience and subsequent kindness extended by a former 'shunnee' that allows them to see the error of their ways. Unconditional love conquers all - sometimes.

  And most importantly when is it right to shun or is it really right at all?

  Time and place maybe?? If I am on time crunch and too much to accomplish and I notice that there is someone who wants to talk and talk and talk to me and will not respect my words when I say 'no, not now', I think that is an acceptable reason to shun them in that moment (ie: walk down a different aisle at the grocery store or not take their phone call). Someone who constantly ignores clearly established boundaries can be denied entrance to my home but it is not loving to completely cut them off from my life. Someone who has been physically, spiritually, emotionally, or sexually abusive to me (or my loved ones) can pretty much count on being shunned by me at nearly every turn. But is that really 'shunning' or just strong boundaries?????

  -Aude.
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  18

  What makes people ok with shunning?

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it almost seems easy to some... or like a weird funny feeling like they are doing something wrong if they go against something inside of them and actually speak to marked (people they are told to shun) people.. (sorry to be bias in this but only exaggerate circumstances to make my point).

  jehovah's witness for one are known to shun disfellowshipped members.. but also there is:.

  popular kids at schools who shun unpopular kids at school.. rich people who ignore poor people.. some whites that are still racest shun black and vs.. some older proper/religious ones with high moral standards shunn or at least look down one the rebels.. ...seriously does it make life easier for them or something?.

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  AudeSapere

  Oops! I guess I didnt' even read the entire OP before responding! Oops!! My bad.

  I see that the OP presented many other scenarios than within the JW context. My comment above was my thought from within the JW org.

  In cases of popular vs unpopular, rich vs poor, white vs black, I think the reasons are less primal (than fear). Seems to me that in those cases, it is an attempt to elevate ones own status in the given community. Put others down to elevate oneself. Jealousy or feelings of inadequacy may cause others to avoid people who they perceive to be 'better' than themselves. Prejudice (over-generalization and scripting) drives many people to lump all people of one characteristic to be stereotypically identical.

  Now I'll go read the rest of this thread and learn from the rest of you!

  -Aude.
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  18

  What makes people ok with shunning?

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it almost seems easy to some... or like a weird funny feeling like they are doing something wrong if they go against something inside of them and actually speak to marked (people they are told to shun) people.. (sorry to be bias in this but only exaggerate circumstances to make my point).

  jehovah's witness for one are known to shun disfellowshipped members.. but also there is:.

  popular kids at schools who shun unpopular kids at school.. rich people who ignore poor people.. some whites that are still racest shun black and vs.. some older proper/religious ones with high moral standards shunn or at least look down one the rebels.. ...seriously does it make life easier for them or something?.

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  AudeSapere

  Without reading everyone else's comments, I think it FEAR is what makes people OK with shunning. Fear of what others will think. Fear of displeasing [insert authority figure here (ie: Parents, Elders, Congregation, Org Leaders, Jesus, Jehovah, Angels, etc)]. Fear of reprecussions. Fear of having to take respnsibility for their own thoughts and actions. Fear that if they take that first step in talking to someone who has deliberately chosen a different philosophical path that they will be unable to maintain their own integrity.

  Fear is a strong motivator in many.

  -Aude Sapere (meaning: Dare to Know; Dare to Think for Yourself)
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  12

  Reasons why I can't talk to you anymore

  by sabastious in

  1. social
  2. humour

  1. you don't use the same mispronunciation of god's name that i do.

  2. you "went out of god's love" after reading keep yourselves in god's love.

  3. i marked on your forehead an invisible message to myself telling me to shun you, even though it's not official.

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  AudeSapere

  That about covers it all.

  I like that you placed this under 'Humor'. So sad that it's funny.

  Stupid cult.

  -Aude.
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  30

  Do JWs Participate in Wars By Funding Them?

  by cameo-d in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think there are a lot of ways to get your hands bloody without actually joining the military or shooting a gun indiscriminately at foreigners in their own country.. can you think of ways that jws are participating in sponsoring wars without "going to war"?.

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  AudeSapere

  WTS owned 50% of a company that made war weapons.

  Did they really own HALF of the company?? Or was it that half of the gifted portfolio was RandCam stock?

  There's a BIG difference.

  Owning half of a company means you have definitive say in how the company operates and with whom they align themselves. I don't think the WTS had that kind of clout with RandCam.

  There is much documented about the WTS RandCam affiliation, but I don't remember how many shares they had, just that it was sizeable net profit as an investor but not enough to 'direct' Rand corporate operations.

  -Aude.
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  20

  isn't this lovely? Not!!

  by therevealer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  AudeSapere

  Yikes! I have not read any literature from the Society in soo long and that one was a doozy. I feel like mind had been f*cked with in just those two paragraphs.

  Soo much manipulation and condemnation for choosing to make a 'normal' life for oneself. In context of the entire continued indoctrination regime, the inference is that if you are marching in step to the directive from Brooklyn (or wherever they reside now), you are not worthy of life.

  What is the source of that excerpt?

  -Aude.
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  5

  How many members are their on this forum ? Just curious.

  by smiddy in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  AudeSapere

  Repost the question under the topic of either "Technical Assistance" or "Forum Suggestions" to get Simon's attention. I'm sure he has the figures - along with number of active users.

  Being a family man with 2 boys, he obviously does not have time to read every post, but I think he and his wife monitor those two sections fairly regularly.

  It's fun to know stats like that.

  Then again, sometimes a little effort in searching can turn up the info we are looking for:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/204304/1/Simon-Could-You-Pull-and-Post-a-Report

  -Aude.
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  24

  Does anyone dream about JWN?

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yeah...i know that this is a minimus type question....but.

  i spend way to much time on this site.

  i dream about it all the time.

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  AudeSapere

  It's an addiction - in the full sense of the word. And one that i think many of can identify with.

  What most of us have come to realize though, is that, like any addiction, it can take over our lives if we let it.

  You have soo much going on in your life that really needs your attention, Dan. Maybe consider setting a timer to limit your time here. Or at least find a way to measure and match minute-for-minute the time you spend here with what you spend with each of your children and your wife. Two hours on JWN would mean that you should likewise spend two hours with your wife and a separate two hours with your children. Not counting time spent eating or watching TV. Quality time like going for a walk or playing in the yard.

  It's too easy to lose track of the time spent here. A timer may really help.

  -Aude.
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  19

  heres a blast from the past how many have seen this picture

  by im stuck in in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  AudeSapere

  Thanks for clarification, TD.