Posts by AudeSapere

11

Watchtower can be greatfull they gave Michael Jackson the flick when they did

by joe134cd in

i was just thinking how greatful wt can be that they dfed him when they did.

could you imagine the hammering they would be taking now from the ex-jw community, in light of the recent documentary.

i’m by no means sticking up for them i’m just saying, that’s all..

AudeSapere

Smiddy3 wrote: Was it ever really announced from the platform that MJ was DF ? I must have missed something.

I was in attendance at the Woodland Halls KH (West) when it was announced that Michael Jackson was no longer a JW. I don't remember the exact verbiage but my roommate at the time took out her tape recorder to capture my report of what was said. It was the first time I (we) had heard this generic-type separation announcement.

There was a very brief lead-up to the announcement and I left with the general impression that it was a mutually agreed upon decision. Like both 'you're fired' and 'I quit'. "Let's just say we've parted ways" type of thing.

It was neither officially announced as disassociation nor disfellowshipping. But it was definitely announced.

Since then, all other announcements have had similar language.

10

Seven006 ....where is he?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i haven't heard from dave, also known as seven in a long time.

i sent him a message here a while back and heard nothing.. does anybody know how he is faring?

?.

AudeSapere

This is just so terribly sad. He was such an interesting contributor here and an amazing artist. The last few things I know of him doing was the book for his granddaughter (who is probably a pre-teenager by now and i believe he also did the artwork for the CD that Barbara Anderson released about 10 years ago.

Rest in Peace, Dave. Thank you for sharing your stories and art and making us think.

-AudeSapere.

34

Just peeking in for a bit...

by Jidders in

jw
friends

i rather apprehensively would like to say hello.. i've been raised somewhat in the truth,one of my parents is rather rather strong in the beliefs but could honestly be considered pomi with how active they are and their side of the family comes from a line of witnesses, the other parent was but faded a long time ago.

as such i was taught quite a bit of jw teachings between family and off and on again bible studies.

recently i had a serious emotional break down over a few months after said pomi parent had advised me that they would not attend my wedding should that day come (i also had recieved a text from my bible teacher i hadnt heard from in a year or two giving a scripture) and it sorta all sank on me that my activity over the last few years was not really jw material.

AudeSapere

Jidders - Glad you are still participating in this conversation and VERY glad that you are getting support for anxiety. A professional therapist who understands 'exiting high control groups' may be a very good next step for you to help you feel even better a little quicker.

You wrote: I honestly feel if Jehovah/Yahweh was with them then he's making naked the sins of those holding the reigns but failing to direct the horse, so to speak

I had similar thought when I walked out of the Kingdom Hall one Sunday many years ago. I hung on to that thought for almost 15 years. I thought they were heading down a wrong path and that my staying associated with the org and not say anything was being complicit with their sins. I could not in good conscience silently sit in my seat at the hall. And I could not say anything for fear of 'causing divisions' and retaliation for insubordination. I felt my only option was to step aside and let the org figure out and correct their errors. Only THEN I would consider reactivating myself.

After 15 years (I did not do research and did not talk to anyone because I did not want to stumble anyone with my own doubts), I eventually found other xjws (on Randy Waters' Freeminds site and here on JWN) and came to believe that the JWs are not - and never were - God's chosen org and love does govern them. They do not imitate Jesus' heart.

Love does not motivate JWs.

Fear, obligation, guilt and duty are what motivates most of them.

Fear of displeasing a 'loving' god. Really?

Fear of suffering the wrath of a 'loving' god. Seriously??

587 v 607 = 1914 is not significant in Jehovah's selection of the Bible Students selection of the FDS. They claimed this favored status for themselves. Actually ~~Judge~~ ~~Rutherfraud~~ Rutherford claimed that status for himself.

For what it's worth, these 3 issues were the ones that convinced me that I was wasting my time and life waiting for the org to 'get back on track':

607 / 587

Mexico / Malawi

UN NGO

They never were on the right track. They were not specially chosen by God.

They never would be.

It was time for me to get on with my life. If life really is a gift from God, I need to show appreciation of that life by using my talents and finding ways to both enjoy my life. Sitting in a Kingdom Hall and waiting for the NewSystem was not showing appreciation for *this* life that really exists now. It came to feel more like I was squandering my time and life in a high-control group that was never specially chosen as god's favored people.

I needed to change that.

I did.

And I have not regretted or apologized for creating a better life for myself. I am happy and appreciative for what I have.

-Aude.

14

G.B.Are they Manipulative Lying S.O.B.`s / Not Genuine in their Beliefs ?

by smiddy3 in

i raise this question for many reasons really ,thinking back on their past history and how they have responded to past failures .that they explain away as human imperfections.. on the one hand they claim to be gods spokesperson on earth .the only true religion god is using to dispense his truths at the proper time.

and that members of the gb are the f&ds class assigned to do this.. or do they deliberately manipulate witnesses vulnerability about world events ,disasters ,earthquakes etc ,to prey on those fears about the gt /armageddon.. that they are constantly warned about .

and that it is impending.. producing videos that show how jw`s will be persecuted round up and imprisoned simply for being a jw .on a worldwide scale .. the bunker video ?.

AudeSapere

SF wrote: I would not be surprised if big picture questions about truth and the nature of the religion they oversee is mostly crowded out by other concerns.

I think this is true.

I would also add that they are intellectually lazy. And that laziness helps them ignore glaring problems within the org and its doctrines.

The best they can do is 'dumb down' the religion and centralize the message (direct everyone to jw dot org).

That takes much of the burden off the rank and lets them keep their own relatively cushy life.

11

Remembering SuziDrums

by 3rdgen in

hello friends,.

i don't post here much anymore but still check in to read from time to time.

yesterday i thought i would send a fb msg.

AudeSapere

Oh no! That is so sad. I'm so very sorry.

34

Just peeking in for a bit...

by Jidders in

jw
friends

i rather apprehensively would like to say hello.. i've been raised somewhat in the truth,one of my parents is rather rather strong in the beliefs but could honestly be considered pomi with how active they are and their side of the family comes from a line of witnesses, the other parent was but faded a long time ago.

as such i was taught quite a bit of jw teachings between family and off and on again bible studies.

recently i had a serious emotional break down over a few months after said pomi parent had advised me that they would not attend my wedding should that day come (i also had recieved a text from my bible teacher i hadnt heard from in a year or two giving a scripture) and it sorta all sank on me that my activity over the last few years was not really jw material.

AudeSapere

This:

the fact I'm always scared and depressed when doing anything meeting/study related has left me insanely weary

This should be a big warning sign to you.

Don't ignore your own keen internal sensors.

Are you familiar with the term 'cognitive dissonance'? You seem to be describing some of the classic symptoms.

34

Just peeking in for a bit...

by Jidders in

jw
friends

i rather apprehensively would like to say hello.. i've been raised somewhat in the truth,one of my parents is rather rather strong in the beliefs but could honestly be considered pomi with how active they are and their side of the family comes from a line of witnesses, the other parent was but faded a long time ago.

as such i was taught quite a bit of jw teachings between family and off and on again bible studies.

recently i had a serious emotional break down over a few months after said pomi parent had advised me that they would not attend my wedding should that day come (i also had recieved a text from my bible teacher i hadnt heard from in a year or two giving a scripture) and it sorta all sank on me that my activity over the last few years was not really jw material.

AudeSapere

Welcome to JWN!

Just take things slow.

Truth is Truth and should be able to hold up under discussion and review.

There is no need to snap to judgement one way or another. This is a great place to ask questions and get variety of feedback.

Sounds like you are relatively young. Here are a few suggestions for you:

If not yet baptized, stay that way. There is absolutely no rush. If you are being coerced, that should be a warning sign. Jesus was 30. JW's will use baptism against you if you later find that they are not as 'christian' as they claim.

Armageddon is not just around the corner. Make plans for a long life in this system. Get an education. Work on a real career. Take real vacations. Don't waste all your free time in field service.

Build a nice life for yourself. Make friends with people who do not believe exactly as you do. You can inspire each other and test each others views. You don't have to change their view. You don't have to let them change you. Just enjoy their company and have fun.

Don't try to challenge or 'enlighten' your JW family and friends right now - it's too easy for this to backfire on you and you will likely find yourself marked and/or isolated. Later on, once you are clear on what you want in your life, you can decide if you want to share your thoughts with family and friends.

Be cordial, attentive and polite to family and JW friends but make establishing your own life (without their control) your very first priority.

To understand some of what goes on with high-level decision making in the org, get the book 'Crisis of Conscience' by Ray Franz.

I was on antidepressants during my last few years in the org. This site did not exist at the time. I cried a lot. Life was not fun. I knew of things going on in my cong and neighboring ones, too. One Sunday I got up in the middle of a meeting, said a little prayer as I walked out the door of the KH ("Jehovah, you know better than I do why I cannot stay here anymore") and I never really went back.

Finding JWN was critical to me validating my thoughts. This site was so incredibly active 15 years ago. Look through some of the old threads.

JWFacts is a great site. The site-owner has very high integrity and is usually quite willing to address specific questions of accuracy and authenticity.

Post when you can. I hope you find what you need to help you gain clarity of thought and lightness of heart.

Again, welcome to JWN. It's nice to have you join us, even if just occaisionally.

-Aude Sapere (meaning: Dare to Know; Dare to Have Wisdom/Understanding; Dare to Think for Yourself.)

25

Want to read the Montana Nunez v. Watchtower Trial Transcript? It's now available to read

by AndersonsInfo in

the trial transcript of nunez v. watchtower (426 pages) has been made available from scaars which is the acronym for a new a 501(c)(4) lobbying corporation, sexual child abuse - advocates for reform and safety (scaars).. .

the scaars corporation was formed october 3, 2018 by barbara anderson and former elder, roger bentley and his wife, karin.

on the home page of the scaars website, scaars.org, you will find information that explains the goal of the movement - scaars: "changing laws - changing lives.".

AudeSapere

I look forward to reading this.

Thank you, Barbara, Roger and Karin!!

38

Child sexual abuse suspect arrested in T.O.

by Tahoe in

jw
friends

https://www.vcstar.com/story/news/2018/12/13/child-sexual-abuse-suspect-arrested-t-o/2305199002/ .

a 69-year-old thousand oaks man facing multiple sexual abuse charges by the ventura county district attorney’s office was arrested last week, authorities said.. steven skyler abbott was arrested dec. 6 after months of investigation into the reported sexual abuse of two thousand oaks girls, according to the ventura county sheriff’s office.

in november, the ventura county district attorney’s office filed multiple felony sexual abuse charges against abbott, including two counts of continuous sexual abuse, one count of lewd acts upon a child and one count of forcible lewd acts upon a child.. he is also facing multiple felony enhancements and special allegations related to his charges.. the investigation began in september, when the sheriff’s agency received a report of suspected child crimes.. a 16-year-old victim alleged that she was sexually abused by abbott when she was between the ages of 5 and 11, sheriff’s officials said.. sexual assault unit detectives subsequently identified a second, 24-year-old victim who reported that abbott had abused her when she was between the ages of 3 and 7, authorities said.. the sheriff’s agency said the victims and their families had come into contact with abbott through the kingdom hall of jehovah’s witnesses in newbury park.. investigators submitted their findings to prosecutors, who filed felony sexual abuse charges against abbot on nov. 16, officials said.. on nov. 28, an arrest warrant was issued for abbott.. the suspect was eventually arrested at his home on dec. 6 and booked into ventura county jail.

AudeSapere

I missed this post and just learned of the arrest yesterday.

This KH is VERY close to me. At one point, when I was very depressed and struggling to stay in the org, this is one of the Halls I considered transferring to.

Horrific shame that these situations continue to occur.

So glad the 16 year old came forward.

Might consider going to the courthouse on Thursday.

2

Newbury Park Man Accused of Child Molestation

by AudeSapere in

jw
friends

so this was in my local weekly 'throwaway' newspaper today.. guess what religion?.

https://www.toacorn.com/articles/newbury-park-man-accused-of-child-molestation/.

newbury park man accused of child molestation.

AudeSapere

Ahh. Thanks for the link, JP.

I did not see the prior post and was really surprised that my google search did not show the article as posted in the Ventura County Star.

Must need to brush up on my search skills.