Posts by CalebInFloroda

25

Why, Why, Why did God create such a difference between Jews and Gentile....?

by James Mixon in

why such a difference between jew and gentiles, so that the jew is at once.

recognized, no matter what race he lives among.. and how did the jews come to have such strange traditions setting apart, racially.

and religiously from gentiles???.

CalebInFloroda

Jews teach that G-d had a purpose for each and every race, each and every people. Every national group has a reason to exist and a destiny, and Jews teach that their point of view is not necessarily unique.

Jews don't believe we are special. We might have a purpose in life, but it is no more important than the purpose of another ethnic group that worships another god or that we are more enlightened than individuals who have no religion. Like a tapestry, every thread is important, not just the ones that might play an apparently prominent part in the pattern. You start pulling at one, they all come apart. They rely on one another.

The Jewish mythos demonstrates the earliest beliefs about the place the Hebrews played on the world stage, but it is only the most ancient and basic of understandings. It is very old, and very primitive. The Jewish understanding has changed dramatically for the most part, and unlike Christians who try to keep the primitive Word as valid today as it was thousands of years ago, Jewish thought and theology has evolved far past the mythology you are considering.

Even the terms "God" and "monotheism" are highly primitive concepts of the Deity compared to what the Jews connect to in our day. While Christians may keep rehashing the relic of the Bible, the Jews have moved on in an increasing manner (which is why you can have Torah-observant humanistic or atheist Jews). Jewish theology has evolved far from the burning bush, Old Man in the Sky images so many debate about here. It is highly developed and far beyond anything found in Christianity. For many Jews, G-d is not even personal or even transcends existence while at the same time being the definition of it. Existence of G-d and belief of G-d are often irrelevant issues to the most religious and observant Jew as well.

You have to move past the Hebrew Scriptures, into the Midrash and Talmud and far beyond to understand where Jews are today. For us G-d also evolves, changes, learns, becomes better at being G-d along with all the other dimensions I have mentioned above. The monotheism in the Scriptures is only mythologically reflected in its most primary terms. Jews have moved past that. What you find in the Bible is for puppies. The concepts you have to have to understand Judaism and its current understandings about G-d are for much mature and bigger dogs.

One last word: don't expect it to be perfect either or claims of it being the ultimate truth. Judaism has moved past even those ways of looking at things.

27

New light!, says JW-Archive. The inspired word can have mistranslations, says Dec 2015 WT

by StarTrekAngel in

sorry, i know i posted this earlier but i believe the title did not gather enough attention.

i think is a topic worth discussing.. http://www.jw-archive.org/post/127866869178/new-light-the-inspired-word-of-god-can.

CalebInFloroda

Kaik is quite correct.

The introduction of so-called "formal equivalent" versions into English have actually introduced mistranslations that still run amuck, even though the original intentions behind this rendition philosophy were good.

For instance, the pronoun for G-d in Hebrew rendered "he" doesn't mean that in Hebrew. It means "it" in the sense of "genderless person." Because a neuter pronoun didn't exist in ancient Hebrew, word-for-word translations caused Christian exegetes to invent a false mysogynistic patriarchy as a background for Hebrew theology. It has taken many centuries to re-write this mistake and erase this invention, and to this day many Fundamentalist Christians still teach and believe it.

The same goes for the famous phrase "thus saith the Lord." The actually expression which occurs in the Prophets is a noun, not a verb. It actually reads: "Oracle of YHWH." To date only one of the major Englsih versions renders this correctly, the NABRE, whereas all others still write it like a verb: "says the LORD." These are just two examples.

So we are not only talking about reshaping the text before canonization, but making mistakes once the texts were finalized not only via copying but in the translation process into other languages.

25

Why, Why, Why did God create such a difference between Jews and Gentile....?

by James Mixon in

why such a difference between jew and gentiles, so that the jew is at once.

recognized, no matter what race he lives among.. and how did the jews come to have such strange traditions setting apart, racially.

and religiously from gentiles???.

CalebInFloroda

Yeah, there are at least four eras of different cultures referred to as Golden Ages.

However the one you were mentioning did affect the Iberian Golden Age which eventually become the apple of the eyes of Ferdinand and Isabella. You might say it got its start with the other, so you weren't totally off.

27

New light!, says JW-Archive. The inspired word can have mistranslations, says Dec 2015 WT

by StarTrekAngel in

sorry, i know i posted this earlier but i believe the title did not gather enough attention.

i think is a topic worth discussing.. http://www.jw-archive.org/post/127866869178/new-light-the-inspired-word-of-god-can.

CalebInFloroda

Kepler

The Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah represents the proto-Masoretic tradition that in some instances differs greatly from the Masoretic text.

However, what many people exposed to JW theology sometimes forget is that neither Judaism nor Christianity ever viewed the proto-Masoretic text as canonical. Canonization did not occur for either religious tradition until after the first century CE. All interpolations and redactions to the texts, both Hebrew and Christian, up to that point are accepted as part of the inspiration process, and the inspired text is only that which existed at the time the canonization process began.

This is why the Dead Sea Scroll variations are not part of the official Jewish canon or the official Catholic/Orthodox canon either. What people are looking at in the Dead Sea Scrolls is the shaping of the texts that would one day be canon, but not the canonized texts themselves.

The original texts of the Jews and Christians are not the inspired works. If the first works were then we would not have Genesis chapter 1. Matthew would exist only of Jesus' saying and no narrative. Isaiah would be a quarter of the length it is today. There would be no chapter 21 of John and no 2 Peter at all.

JW theology likes to teach that the most ancient texts were the important ones, but it is the completed works that offer the full inspiration process according to those who did the canonizing. The "drafts" may have taken generations to work through, but it is their final state at the time of Marcion Sinope's heresy that the question of canon brought the redactions to an end.

The Masoretic tradition of the 7th century was Jewry's answer to ending the redaction process as well. Thus the inspired text is that which offers a completed text, not the text in its infancy, at least not in the eyes of the religious authorities that invented the canonization process to begin with.

I know a lot of people are used to hearing something else, but that is the way it has always been. The inspired books are those agreed upon when the official discussions of canon were closed. For Jews that was the Masoretic era and for Christians it comes in two parts, the New Testament canon closing in the late 300s and the Old Testament for Latin Rite Churches with the Council of Trent (there is no official Protestant O.T. as there is no authoritative body among them to make this finalized decision--most accepting the Masoretic canon).

39

The only way to know God exists!

by iconoclastic in

do everything as god would do if he were present here.

this will attract his attention, and you will experience his invisible hands blessing everything you do, giving you results more than what you sowed.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

hence put to the test the above, and then you can make really authentic comments!.

CalebInFloroda

People have really got to stop trying to prove that G-d exists.

I'm a theist, and I find such an attempt as totally ridiculous and a great way to belie one's claim to religion or some theological conviction. The reason is that nothing is gained by trying to prove something that can't and shouldn't be proven with empirical evidence.

Formost, it insults many people who have convictions that do not include a deity or some form of religious expression. Most of these people have come to their conscientious stand by means of freely exercising their reason and intelligence. Why try to convince them otherwise? They obviously have minds of their own that, should they choose, they can change to embrace any view they wish.

Secondly, it is pretty insulting to many religious people as well. The concept of G-d from a Judeo-Christian exegete involves accepting a Deity that is transcendent. This means one shouldn't expect that this particular G-d could be measured or tested. If you could do that, then you wouldn't have much a transcendent G-d now, would you? As stated in a British comedy about a woman in advertising who went to see G-d after she died, asking G-d, "Who does your PR?" G-d replied: "I am Real. I exist. Real things don't need PR." If there is a G-d, I think a lot of theists drown G-d out a lot by shoving G-d into so many people's faces.

I think instead of making an issue of G-d's existence, people should spend more time making an issue of humanity's existence. There are plenty of people who need help, peace, kindness, love, food, clothing, etc. If there is a G-d, I think G-d would prefer we learn to fully deal with what we can see before we start telling others to deal with something we cannot see.

25

Why, Why, Why did God create such a difference between Jews and Gentile....?

by James Mixon in

why such a difference between jew and gentiles, so that the jew is at once.

recognized, no matter what race he lives among.. and how did the jews come to have such strange traditions setting apart, racially.

and religiously from gentiles???.

CalebInFloroda

Kaik

I was referring to the Golden Age of the Iberian Peninsula, not the Far East.

The Golden Age that Jews speak of had to do with Seferad, modern Spain, Morocco, and Portugal. My family, the House of David, had planned to return from Seferad after the Persians took over, but when the Hasmoneans began to rule, the majority stopped the trip back. Only a minority ever returned to Jerusalem.

When the Second Temple fell, the rest of the House of David along with members of the tribe of Judah and Benjamin moved into Iberia by way of Rome and Greece, finally establishing itself after many generations and the rise of Islam. While the priestly Cohens moved into Ashkenaz and Europe fell into the Dark Ages, the Golden Age of Jewry in Iberia occurred.

The Golden Age ended when the Europeans introduced the Spanish Inquisition into Seferad, leading to the rape of my people and the Muslims and the eventual dismissal from our lands and homes with the Alhambra Decree of 1492.

25

Why, Why, Why did God create such a difference between Jews and Gentile....?

by James Mixon in

why such a difference between jew and gentiles, so that the jew is at once.

recognized, no matter what race he lives among.. and how did the jews come to have such strange traditions setting apart, racially.

and religiously from gentiles???.

CalebInFloroda

L'Shana Tova, everybody! My trip was cut short by two months due to my developing a respiratory problem during traveling. I have recovered and am home for the Jewish new year: 5776!

As to why Jews are SO different, I guess it depends on who you ask and your concept of what a Jew is.

First of all though many of share a common ancestry, we are not actually a race. Some Jews are not Semites.

As for those who do have "Jewish" DNA markers (as they are called, often referred to by some as merely "J"), we definitely do not look alike. Ashkenazi Jews look a lot more Caucasian than Sephardic Jews. I'm Sephardic, have a Spanish-sounding name, and many people never know I am Jewish until something causes it to come out into the open. Go visit Tel-Aviv and you will see Jewish people with blonde hair and blue eyes, red hair and green eyes, and a little more Sephardic Jews like me than what you will find in America or England. Jews are a collection of tribes that make up one larger tribe.

As for customs, it depends again on where you are from and what branch of Judaism you hail from. Sephardic customs are different from Ashkenazi customs. Reform Jews are very different from Orthodox Jews, and you would have a hard time pinning down a Post-denominational Jew. Some believe in G-d, others don't.

In the East it is customary for all peoples, regardless of religion or race, to pray with a head covering, to grow facial hair, to avoid pork, to have a national weekly holy day that forbids work, to worship using a language unique and exclusive to a national group. Also Easterners have been worshipping their deity (deities) longer than Westerners, so our theologies are far more complex, and many of us (Jews and Muslims) developed critical thinking during the Golden Age (when Christians were having their "Dark Ages"). This "Golden Age" of enlightenment opened us to advances in science, mathematics, even introducing logic into ancient religions. We are different in many of these areas because Westerners cut themselves off from us for a while and are still playing catch up.

Many of us have and do assimilate. I have had friends who for years did not know I was a Jew until a couple of years ago when Chanukah landed on Thanksgiving in the U.S.A. It startled a lot of people, let me tell you. I may talk a lot about being Jewish here, but only because religion is the main subject on so many threads. Outside of this site most people think I am Latino because of my name and the food me and my family eats.

So it depends on what you think a Jew is. Maybe you haven't been around enough of them. Only a small number dress like the Orthodox, whereas the majority of us would be hard to spot.

6

Heading to the Spain and the Holy Land

by CalebInFloroda in

as part of my journey as a sepahrdic jew, i am off on a journey that will take me to both spain and israel to apply for the right of return offered to me by both nations.. as such i will be absent from this delightful forum during this life-changing odyssey.

till that time we are together again, be assured you are in my thoughts and (for those of you who do not mind) my prayers.. please know you have contributed to me greatly and have helped me much, all of you.

it is rewarding to freely share, discuss, even debate issues here so freely.

CalebInFloroda

As part of my journey as a Sepahrdic Jew, I am off on a journey that will take me to both Spain and Israel to apply for the right of return offered to me by both nations.

As such I will be absent from this delightful forum during this life-changing odyssey. Till that time we are together again, be assured you are in my thoughts and (for those of you who do not mind) my prayers.

Please know you have contributed to me greatly and have helped me much, all of you. It is rewarding to freely share, discuss, even debate issues here so freely. I wish all still in the shackles of the Watchtower can do so too one day.

Keep up the good work, and always search for those answers with a critical method, an analytical mind, and a few extra voices to ensure you did your work right.

My best regards to all, and l'chaim!

35

Cognitive Dissonance

by LexIsFree in

jw
friends

the cognitive dissonance amongst jws has never been more obvious to me then what i just experience in the last 5 min.

long story short i had a phone conversation w/my mom about some things and i mentioned to her to look up what has been going on with their beloved organization in australia.

brother geoffrey jackson of the holy governing body was caught lying numerous times about several subjects including disassociations & shunning.

CalebInFloroda

@Done4good

Cognitive dissonance is not readily accepted in academia, the medical profession or behavior studies as fully established, let alone definitively defined and universally accepted.

It appears to be a popular "panacea" or buzz word in Internet discussions regarding cults and ideological movements, but it is often used incorrectly.

For those who know music and play an instrument, you are likely familiar with the word "dissonance" as the opposite of "harmony." As you can play a set of notes that "match" as a harmonious cord, those that "clash" to the ear are called "dissonant." Cognitive dissonance is the same, when you are faced with conflicting information that clashes.

It ONLY refers to the time such cognitive clashing exists. If a person no longer accepts or pays attention to one of the subjects causing the clashing, the dissonance ends.

It is just like playing a harmonious cord on a piano and adding one clashing note in the mix. If you stop or reject the use of the clashing note by releasing the key, the dissonant sound ends and harmony is restored.

Cognitive dissonance is only that time that all conflicting or clashing thoughts are put into play at the same time. Once any of the "notes" that cause the clashing get released, the dissonance stops.

Avoiding cognitive dissonance is the same as not having cognitive dissonance just as avoiding a clashing note on a piano is not having a dissonant cord. What I am trying to help people realize is that some misuse the term "cognitive dissonance" to refer to the denial state of many JWs. The fact is that if they were all put in a state that would cause the hypothetical CD state, if the studies are correct, they would be forced to make a decision one way or another. But being in the state of denial or simply believing a false doctrine is not the same as "cognitive dissonance."

Just the fact that people keep debating with me on this point is in itself a demonstration of what is often termed as CD. People are having a hard time letting go of the misuse of the term so they defend and argue about it, some attempting to make it sound like it's universal behavioral science, and it is not.

35

Cognitive Dissonance

by LexIsFree in

jw
friends

the cognitive dissonance amongst jws has never been more obvious to me then what i just experience in the last 5 min.

long story short i had a phone conversation w/my mom about some things and i mentioned to her to look up what has been going on with their beloved organization in australia.

brother geoffrey jackson of the holy governing body was caught lying numerous times about several subjects including disassociations & shunning.

CalebInFloroda

@ListlessWitness

"Cognitve dissonance" is a hypothetical model currently under discussion and test in the behavioral sciences. It is not certain whether the state is genuine and, if it is, that everyone who is a state of denial experiences it before denial or accepting truth.

However, being someone who witnesses a lot of this on a regular basis, I tend to believe that cognitive dissonance is very real. Be that as it may, "cogntive dissonance" means "mental disharmony."

It is the state when a person has two conflicting situations in their minds, both of which they view as fact AND undergo distress, discomfort, pain, or other signs of emotional stress as a result.

The Harry Potter books and films are famous for their CD-inducing formula in which we the audience see each story through the eyes of the protagonist, get fooled into thinking he has made the right conclusions, only to realize he is wrong. At this point Harry has to make a decision how to act, and we the audience are hooked. We have to know the truth and the answers ourselves, so we read on or keep watching, again hooked.

Harry is a hero in that he never stays in his state of cognitive dissonance for very long. He immediately wakes up, ending the cognitive dissonance by decisive action which, because we see each story through his eyes is very satisfying to us.

Note, the actions of Harry Potter after he learns the truth are never done in the state of cognitive dissonance. Harry has found a solution to dealing with two conflicting beliefs, albeit the right one. But the reality is that most people don't immediately respond to cognitive dissonance, and sometimes they stop the stress by denial. Harry is a hero because he does this immediately and always make the right choice in the end.

Three other films baptize their audiences in cognitive dissonance very successfully, namely "Fight Club" and Hitchcock's masterpieces "Vertigo" and "Psycho." Most people describe these films as having "surprise endings," but in reality each ends up telling a completely different or foreign story in the end than the one you believed you started to watch. The cognitive dissonance that results is actually like a thrill ride, and each of these films is highly praised for their conclusion "payoffs." But the conclusions are only satisfying because they relieve the stress they cause.

Cognitive dissonance is only a temporary state, but you are right that it will rise again if you don't stop falling for falsehood that keeps getting proven wrong. But it is still temporary stress, discomfort, a state that seeks immediate relief.