betterdaze

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Posts by betterdaze

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  41

  Astonishing decline of Christianity in Britain

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well the results of the english church census for 2005 have just recently been published by peter brierley in a book called pulling out of the nose dive.

  it shows that church attendance in england continues to decline at an amazing rate.

  first i will just give the bottom line figures, then i will add some other interesting facts and figures.

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  betterdaze

  slimboyfat,
  
  Thanks for the interesting topic. In all fairness, I find you are not telling the whole story, maybe due to a personal bias. I'm sure your intentions are good, and certainly relevant in light of the 2005 WT figures posted recently. Here is the full summary directly from "the horse's mouth" for those who are interested:
  
  http://www.christian-research.org.uk/pr180906.htm
  
  PULLING OUT OF THE NOSEDIVE
  
  Many churches in England are in a healthier state now than seven years ago. Some local churches as well as a few denominations are doing very well, more churches are growing, and overall they are not losing nearly as many people as they were.
  
  These are the major findings from the 2005 English Church Census, undertaken by Christian Research and published today.
  
  The Census showed that in the 1990s 1 million people left church in nine years, but in the seven years from 1998-2005 only ½ million left, a much slower rate of decline, showing that churchgoing in England is beginning to pull out of the ‘nosedive’ decline seen previously. There are two major reasons for this slowing decline: the number of churches which are growing, and a considerable increase of ethnic minority churchgoers, especially black people.
  
  Over a third of churches, 34%, are growing (compared with 21% in 1998), 16% are now stable (up from 14%), while the proportion which are declining has fallen from two thirds to only half (65% down to 50%). A quarter, 25%, of the churches which were declining in the 1990s have not only stemmed their losses, but have turned their church around and are now growing. This includes churches of all denominations and sizes.
  
  However, the declining churches are still losing more people than the growing churches are gaining. The net effect is that overall 6.3% of the population are now in church on an average Sunday (7.5% in 1998), with others attending midweek. A major factor in this decline is that churchgoers are significantly older on average than the population - 29% of churchgoers are 65 or over compared with 16% of the population.
  
  Black people now account for 10% of all churchgoers in England (increased from 7%), with a further 7% (previously 5%) from other non-white ethnic groups. This is most obvious in Inner London, where 44% of churchgoers are now black, 14% other non-white, and only 42% white.
  
  "Christian Research has never shirked from telling us unpalatable truths about church decline. At last they have some good news for us!" comments Ven Bob Jackson, the Church of England Archdeacon of Walsall and author of The Road to Growth. "Decline has slowed and far more individual churches are growing. In fact the data I see for the Church of England confirms this. Pulling out of the Nosedive is an apt and justified title for a report with some statistical good news for all the churches."
  
  "Statistics like these give both the church and wider society the helpful opportunity to look at how church attendance has changed over time" says Rev Katei Kirby, CEO of ACEA (African and Caribbean Evangelical Alliance). "For example, while it is significant to see the increase in the numbers of Black people attending church in England, it is equally important to see where they are attending - in the independent and Pentecostal sectors as well as in the nominal or mainstream denominations. I think that this will continue to have a major impact on the picture of church attendance trends in the future."
  
  "This is a helpful, though challenging, analysis of the state of the Church in England" responded Rev John Glass, General Superintendent Elim Pentecostal Churches, one of the denominations which has done better than others.
  
  Dr Peter Brierley, who undertook the Census, says, "It is a great joy to have some good news at last. Although the overall numbers are still going down there are many signs of hope in the statistics. It is important that church leaders, both nationally and locally, pick up on these positive things, learn from those who are doing well, and build for the future. If that happens we could see the church in this country once again having a major impact on our nation."
  
  The results of the 2005 English Church Census are published today in Pulling out of the Nosedive and a volume of statistics which is No 6 in the Religious Trends series.
  
  ~Sue
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  12

  Never Ending Crap

  by Undecided in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife's nephew and live in mate was in a car wreck tonight and are in the hospital down near morehead city.. it never ends lately, when will it get better???.

  ken p..

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  betterdaze

  Ken,
  
  I don't know when it will get better. I don't know why you're experiencing such distressing times right now...
  
  I do hope your nephew and his mate are receiving the very best care, and make a full recovery.
  
  And that this neverending crap finally ends for you and your family.
  
  Take care,
  
  ~Sue
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  151

  Hambeaks Extremely Heartbreaking News

  by Sparkplug in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  our friend hambeak just got the most dreaded phone call from his jw child.

  the news was passed on as he was asked for by name and not as"dad" and let known that "they" just called to let him know that his other son, brian, age 26, is dead.

  he was in a car accident.

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  betterdaze

  Hambeak, I am so sorry for the loss of your son Brian.
  You and he are in my prayers.
  
  ~Sue
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  19

  What Will The Future Bring? ......fishy?

  by *jeremiah* in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is an excerpt out of (i believe) the new awake article: (i saw it online).

  what will the future bring?

  where is the world heading?.

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  betterdaze

  2015 is the target date for the UN Millenium Development Goals, adopted in 2000.
  
  http://www.un.org/millenniumgoals/
  
  "The eight Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) – which range from halving extreme poverty to halting the spread of HIV/AIDS and providing universal primary education, all by the target date of 2015 – form a blueprint agreed to by all the world’s countries and all the world’s leading development institutions. They have galvanized unprecedented efforts to meet the needs of the world’s poorest."
  
  Here are the results so far:
  
  http://mdgs.un.org/unsd/mdg/Resources/Static/Products/Progress2006/MDGReport2006.pdf
  
  ~Sue
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  116

  Revelation Climax, page 52, Kindly Respond

  by compound complex in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  dear readers of revelation,.

  i have been reminded that a simple question is more effective than an elaborate presentation.

  i have become very careful about what i say and how much i say to most people.

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  betterdaze

  From here it looks like a demonic tail on Jesus.
  
  ~Sue
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  16

  Jaracz retired ...well not exactly but...

  by What-A-Coincidence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after a much heated debate...the jaracz avatar has been retired, i am very sorry.

  but a new and improved version is now in place.

  wac (deedeedee for joining the borg).

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  betterdaze

  I agree with SirNose, bring back Stossel!
  
  ~Sue
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  61

  Stick to the Borg...Your Judas kids made their choice

  by Midget-Sasquatch in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  yet another article in such a short period of time...someone already mentioned it would be in the jan15 2007 wt.

  here are the scans:.

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  betterdaze

  Midget, thank you for the scan.
  
  On the Barfometer, the needle spun past 11, foul-smelling smoke started spewing, then the unit ceased working altogether.
  
  I put it out on the porch to cool.
  
  Thats one down for December, and it's only the 1st.
  
  ~Sue (of the rebellious youth™ class)
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  59

  Funny about this board!

  by 5thGeneration in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think it's hilarious that when you post facts there is still always someone arguing it.. makes you want to stop bothering if people don't want to learn.. but then again my family has only been in the truth for 100 years so what would i know?.

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  betterdaze

  I am one of the "yahoos" who had the nerve to post pictures. But what I wrote also jived with 5thGen's assertion, no? It's one thing to critically examine primary resources, another to simply criticize.
  
  Now, in my opinion, the WT is a publishing, real estate and insurance company masquerading as a religion. I believe they started building "plain jane" Kingdom Halls without any symbols so they could quickly move them on the market some day "soon" when their tax evasion charade comes crashing down. Add the pedophile lawsuits and they'll need to start offloading assets pronto. Of course we'll be told it's "persecution" and not rats leaving a sinking ship.
  
  So, I believe 5thGen's assertion is correct. I apologize, 5th, if I didn't make myself clearer. And anyone whose family has been in for 100 years is a great historic (primary) resource for the board. It would be a shame if you stopped sharing just because some disagree.
  
  Facts, opinions or personal observations: all are relevant to me.
  
  ~Yahoo Sue, student at Drew :–)
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  9

  Loving your religion as a way of life as much as a belief system

  by Qcmbr in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  before i start this isn't a preach about the lds church!

  i'm sitting here at work having been called in and thus missing sunday meetings and i feel an ache to be at church.

  i sat musing on this and the thought came to me that i actually love my membership of my faith, i enjoy the people (for the most part), i am fulfilled by the lifestyle, i am disappointed when we don't 'win' (in statistical battles etc.. :) and i am generally satisfied by the doctrine and apologetics (i don't feel painted into too many untenable positions and i have more than satisfactory explanations for many of life's 'unanswerables').

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  betterdaze

  Carmel said,
  
  "What I relish is seeing people move toward a way of life that is intellectually stimulating,
  socially rewarding so that both individually and collectively the belief system is working.
  I will never see the "golden age" but I am witnessing the process that is getting us there."
  
  Thanks! Could not have phrased it better.
  
  ~Sue
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  58

  Watchtower logo on side of kingdom hall

  by cyberdyne systems 101 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my old kingdom hall has the watchtower logo built into the brick work on the side that faces the road - to me for a hall that is supposed to be dedicated to god, its a bit wrong to have a corporation logo on the side of it.

  maybe its there to show they and not the congregation own it???

  cs 101.

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  betterdaze

  Wow. What timing! I was just looking at a French apostate site last night...
  
  Le Royaume en images
  
  http://membres.lycos.fr/ceops/index.htm
  
  The second photo (Spain) with a tower built into the facade caught my eye. I like the stonework, but Stateside, this would detrimentally affect resale value of the property. I'm thinking it was built before the quick-build, RBC era?
  
  But then look here: Le symbole de la Tour de Garde
  
  http://membres.lycos.fr/ceops/index.htm
  
  (Forgive my fractured understanding of French): "The Jehovah's Witnesses criticize the symbol of the cross... replacing the symbol of cross with cross with the Tower?"
  
  They provide worldwide examples of how the tower symbol is integrated architecturally. Brooklyn, Japan, Venezuela, Lesotho, etc.
  
  This stuff fascinates me. I'm a student in the Historic Preservation program at Drew University. My main interest is architecture. When the sister I was studying with was criticizing church steeples as phallic in nature, I gathered info on Romanesque bell towers, Egyptian obelisks, Muslim minarets, Native American totem poles and Asian pagodas. She wasn't interested in discussing the WT's own symbology, and had already flatly refused to look at anything pyramid related, so I respectfully dropped it from our discussion.
  
  The Society is right in line with all these worldly "pagan phallic symbols" and I'm fairly sure Russell borrowed the tower from Masonry. "Imitation is the best flattery."
  
  Lastly, I knew a number of people who volunteered in the restoration of the Stanley Theater in Jersey City, and yes, they did remove "pagan" symbols. I think they were either faces of Roman gods or fruit wreaths with snakes. Don't remember now, no longer care. The addition they put on the Stanley was so WRONG that NJ preservationists use it as an example of what NOT to do when repurposing historic structures, religious or otherwise.
  
  ~Sue
  
  P.S.: Sorry I couldn't make the paths clickable links, please copy-n-paste.