SickofLies

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Posts by SickofLies

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  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

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  SickofLies

  anything is possible with God...Where do people get close- minded from that?

  Picture somewhat related.

  
• 
  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SickofLies

  I agree with most of what you guys say about organized religion, the track record is lethal and terrible. But the track record of purely atheist societies isn't that great either: Lenin & Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot(I don't know what his belief or non-belief system was). The point I'm trying to get to--yes, badly--is that belief doesn't matter, people will still do very nasty sh__ty things to others and say they did for god or for the common good. Humanism I think starts out fine, but when you add people to the mix, then you've got to be carefull. Science, is not all encompassing. At any given moment, only a percentage of our world-universe is understood. Science changes by adding new understanding, understanding that a few decades before may have been opposite what science then was curently teaching.

  This is a common response, trying to link atheism with communism, the two things are not related. It is true that Stalin and Mao were atheists, they did not commit their crimes against humanity because they were atheists. Humanism supports a secular democracy and demands freedom of speech and religion, in stark contrast to the communist regimes you listed. There is nothing in atheist 'doctrine' or 'beliefs' that would lead someone to commit sucide attacks, genocide or mass murder. Yet it is very easy for a religious person to commit these acts, all they have to do is believe what their 'holy books' are telling them.

  You are absolutely right, science does not have all the answers, no one ever claimed it did. However, it is certainly worlds ahead of religion in its attempts to create solutions to mankind’s problems.

  You are also right about another statement you made, science changes by adding new understanding and listening to reason, this is something religion cannot do and why I believe it will eventually fade out of existence. Just like Thor, Zeus and all the other ancient gods have been forgotten, Jesus, Mohammed and the million Hindu gods will be forgotten to, it's matter of time.
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  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SickofLies

  My opinion piece on atheists is this ... bearded atheists are dead sexy. End of piece.

  Don't forget about tattoo's.

  Also, atheist pizza is the best.
• 
  34

  Apostate Presence Rattles World Conference on Religion

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i know many of you probably never saw my post a few days ago inviting everyone to the world religions conference where i was a key note speaker.

  i'd like to send a big thank you to kwintestal and mincan for showing and giving their support, surfice to say it made quite an impression that the three people standing up and defending atheism at the event were all ex-witnesses.

  the theme for the event was on the topic of morals and modesty.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  SickofLies

  Hey Johnny, long time!

  As far as posting my speech goes it is being published for free on-line and will be up shortly, I will post the link when it is ready.

  It's just to bad I can post parts of the after party Kwin, mincan and myself had when the event was over, that really was the best part. We had the best atheist pizza ever.
• 
  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SickofLies

  You should listen to steve the god delusion is a great book!

  I want to give more examples of the differences between religion and science to help some of you understand how we are different from standard religious tradition.

  Religion is subjective, even if you were to take two members of the exact same faith and have them independently read their holy books and then ask them the meaning of various passages contained with in, the chances of them give the same answers every time is virtually none. No two people who have not had exposure to some holy book growing up will be able to come to the same conclusion about their meaning after reading them.

  In many parts of the world we find that religions reflect the cultures and traditions of the people that inhabit those areas. Even thought they may be referring to the same ‘holy book’ that other people in different parts of the world are using, the way they interpret it is unique to their culture and history. This is exactly what you’d expect from people trying to interpret a work of literature.

  Another thing we see is that many religious values have values and attitudes have changed to fit in with the standard norms of society, even though the books themselves have remained the same. However, again this is subjective, because the books haven’t changed there will always be people coming up and trying to voice their opinions that will not be as ‘enlightened’ as their liberal counterparts.

  Many religions have been used by governments to get greater control over their population. For example, if you are a member of Christianity you are basically supporting the last ditch efforts of the Roman empire to retain control over its empire by imposing one state sponsored religion that encourages blind obedience to authority and discourages independent thinking.

  So, how does science and humanism differ from standard religious tradition?

  Humanism is based on scientific methods of inquiry, it derives its moral and ethical principles from ideas that can be backed up by observable behavior and can be tested and falsified by doing real world tests.

  Let me restate that in simple terms, humanism does not accept ideas that cannot be falsified.

  For example, if you were to put forward the ‘theory’ that there is a tea cup is orbiting our planet that will never be found because our telescopes cannot detect it, this idea would not be accepted because there is no way of testing it.

  Let me restate that in simple terms, humanism requires evidence and reason to accompany any theories, ideas or claims.

  As a direct result of this, humanism rejects any supernatural causes or explanations. This is the one point that most people seem to get uptight about, but in reality is the largest means by which we are separate from standard religious tradition.

  There is a very important reason for the above requirements, they ensure that all people, no matter their cultural background, religious background or upbringing can look at the evidence and be able to come to the same conclusions.

  The unique thing about reason is that it is objective. No matter where you go in the world people of all different backgrounds solve math problems the exact same way. No one has a monopoly on teaching it, no one argues over which form of math is superior to any other. That is because all over the world people are able to objectively agree after following the reason and logic behind mathematics how to solve problems the same way.

  It is the goal of humanist to create a universal code of ethics and morals that when people look at the evidences, logic and reasoning behind it will allow everyone can agree on.

  A truly intelligent person my notice at this point that none of these tenants stated by humanism by no means requires a person to give up their religious beliefs, it merely requires people to accept logic and reason when making social decision. It does not reject culture or tradition and does not claim to be perfect or come from divine sources.

  It hope this helps to clear up some misconceptions that are out there about humanists.
• 
  34

  Apostate Presence Rattles World Conference on Religion

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i know many of you probably never saw my post a few days ago inviting everyone to the world religions conference where i was a key note speaker.

  i'd like to send a big thank you to kwintestal and mincan for showing and giving their support, surfice to say it made quite an impression that the three people standing up and defending atheism at the event were all ex-witnesses.

  the theme for the event was on the topic of morals and modesty.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SickofLies

  It's nice to see some of my old friends on here again. It has indeed been a while, that's why I wanted to reach out and get some of the ex-witnesses here involved and try and create a sense of fun and adventure on the board. I really wanted this topic to be about the experience I had and to let people know that we had a great time. I'm hoping to recruit more people to come to events like these in the future. It's a great to be able to get together with people that have gone through the same thing you have.

  I would like to request that all the 'atheist bashers' refrain from posting in this thread as I did not create this thread to start a debate. However, if you would like to debate or disagree with me I created a topic called Opinion Piece on Atheists that you can go to and insult me by saying I'm just like a JW if you like.

  I will respond to any arguments in that thread, but I ask people to use their common sense when posting, after all if someone gave an experience of going to another church as I've seen many time you would not jump all over them and tell them they have become just like a JW. It would be nice to see a little more tolerance on this board.
• 
  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SickofLies

  I don't think you're the "worst" of the too-strong-sales-pitch crowd.

  Thanks, although my post wasn't meant as a sales pitch, it just like the title says, an opinion peice.
• 
  34

  Apostate Presence Rattles World Conference on Religion

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i know many of you probably never saw my post a few days ago inviting everyone to the world religions conference where i was a key note speaker.

  i'd like to send a big thank you to kwintestal and mincan for showing and giving their support, surfice to say it made quite an impression that the three people standing up and defending atheism at the event were all ex-witnesses.

  the theme for the event was on the topic of morals and modesty.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SickofLies

  Unfortunately you sound like the local JW braging about how many new recruits were baptized at the assembly! I think your friend nailed it as to your motive. Sorry to dampen your wick. Carmel

  You are not going to dampen my day don't worry, if I were not able to respond to such views I would not have been asked to speak at the world conference on religions. I believe the view above is one that had been shared by many people on this site and I would like to refer everyone to my topic 'Opinion on Atheists' that I posted last night.

  Are we trying to recruit people? YES, but there are some BIG differences between how we go about things and the way religions do. Some people after they leave the witnesses feel that they are now free to examine any religion or any idea that is out there as I did and many others like me do, in many cases this has led us to accept that their is no god, for many different reason I wont go into as this is not the point I'm trying to get across. Some people have gotten such a sense of mistrust that they feel anyone putting for an idea is to be viewed with mistrust and is dangerous.

  First let me say as Humanists we agree with you! We are not claiming to have 'the truth' and are not trying to tell people how to live their lives. What we are trying to advocate for is actually skeptisim and reason it self. The values we are trying to promote are tolerance and understanding for all religions and a universal code of ethics that is separate from religion so people of all different religions can live together peacefully in a secular system.

  If I were to 'convert' someone to my way of thinking they need not abandon their religion of youth, but they will have to think differently on how they treat others in public if their religion promotes intolerance. They would not automatically accept ideas put forward by their church. If one day their religious leader told them they needed to drink cool aid or put on a suicide vest they would not accept that tenant as a necessary matter of faith but would rely on their ability to use critical thinking and reason to question the logic behind what is being said.

  I advocate these views with no shame or regret, and I hope I can get as many people as possible to start demanding reason and evidence instead of relying on faith to make decisions.
• 
  203

  Opinion peice on Athiests

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like atheists are to preachy.

  well i want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues.

  to begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SickofLies

  There seems to be a lot of hostility on the board toward atheists still and a lot of comments floating around like ’Atheists are to preachy’.
  
  Well I want to take a quick minute and deal with some of these issues. First are atheists preachy?
  
  
  To begin with, to make any statement regarding atheists in general would be false for several reasons. First, is that the word atheism simply means not believing in any god or gods, it implies no moral or world view. Atheism by its very definition is amoral, meaning that it has no morals associated with it, this is not to be confused with being immoral which means to violate ones own standards of morality. While it may be true that all secular humanists are atheists or at least agnostics, it cannot be said that all atheists and agnostics are secular humanists.
  
  
  Now some of you may object to that statement because we see ‘atheists’ frequently in the news today making all kinds statements about morality, even if those statements involve only how they disagree with some of the moral values and world views of religion. No matter how tempting it is to associate these views with all ‘atheists’, making that kind of association would not be true. For example, someone can attend church services regularly and fully agree with the morals and values being taught, but they may still not believe in god. That is why groups that promote the values you see being voiced by these famous atheists like to call themselves ‘secular humanists’
  
  
  So that brings up a second question, are ’secular humanists’ preachy? The short answer would be yes, is that wrong, I would say no.
  
  
  I know that for many people here after leaving the JW’s trying to listen to anyone that seems certain about anything seems dangerous. Let me just say that as secular humanists we would agree with you. No one is claiming to have any special revealed ‘truth’ or having one path that everyone should follow. We are not marketing ‘The Secret’ to life and its problems. What we are advocating is actually skepticism its self.
  
  
  Why advocate for skepticism? Because if we can get more people to demand answers from people who make irrational statements without facts it will help prevent groups like the JW’s from forming again in the future and limit there ability to grow in the present. Humanism or atheism which promotes humanists values is becoming one of the fastest growing movements today. Why?
  
  
  There is no denying that the recent rise in activism and outreach by humanists can be traced back to one of the most morally repulsive events in recent history. As everyone here is already aware, on Sept. 11 2001, religious extremists used suicide attacks to kill thousands of innocent people for the ridiculous promise of multiple virgins and a hero’s welcome in the afterlife.
  
  
  Because of recent events like these there has been a growing consensus, not just among atheists and secular humanists, but also among many believers that something needs to be done about this rising tide of extremism.
  
  
  So atheists or humanists who advocate their beliefs are really just trying to ensure a better future for everyone and get people to think carefully before accepting any ideas being presented to them.
  
  
  
  
• 
  34

  Apostate Presence Rattles World Conference on Religion

  by SickofLies in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i know many of you probably never saw my post a few days ago inviting everyone to the world religions conference where i was a key note speaker.

  i'd like to send a big thank you to kwintestal and mincan for showing and giving their support, surfice to say it made quite an impression that the three people standing up and defending atheism at the event were all ex-witnesses.

  the theme for the event was on the topic of morals and modesty.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SickofLies

  I know many of you probably never saw my post a few days ago inviting everyone to the world religions conference where I was a key note speaker. I'd like to send a big thank you to kwintestal and Mincan for showing and giving their support, surfice to say it made quite an impression that the three people standing up and defending atheism at the event were all ex-witnesses.

  The theme for the event was on the topic of morals and modesty. I will now give you an sample of an article that I wrote about the event being published in an upcoming Ontario Freethinkers newsletter, the talk its self is being published jointly by the sponsors of the event, the Islamic association of Hamilton and Canadian Freethiners Magazine.

  We have many events around Ontario and I hope that more people will show up in the future, perhaps if we have some events close to the border some of our American brothers can come join us as well.

  Start of Article:

  I don't know how to describe the speech except to say that it was a major victory for humanism. Basically Matt went MIA and was not able to get one person from MASH to show up, so I took every book from my library I had on atheism and evolution and set up a stand on my own. I set up my stand will all my books like "The God Delusion" and "god is not Great, how religion poisons everything" on one side and all my books on evolution on the other, I put some old issues of the skeptical inquire I had in the center of the table. But for a last minute setup it worked out really well, more people came and checked out my display than any other. I even had a few people ask if they could buy my books, however, I had to reply "sorry were not a religion I don't want to take your money". I had two of my friends show up from Niagara Falls who are both atheist ex-Jehovah's Witnesses to help me out.
  
  For my 'scripture' reading I read an essay by Richard Feynman on how no true scientists can have the same kind of certainty as a religious person does, and how eventually that doubt will eventually lead an honest person to question the very existence of God.

  I was worried about the quality of my speech as I had just managed to put it together the day before, but my worries were unfounded. I was one of only two people to give a talk with public speaking experience and so I was able to grab and keep everyone's attention right with my opening line "God is a delusion, religion poisons everything ..." and I have to say, I've always wanted to say that to an audience filled with religious people. Don't worry though I quickly toned things down by asking the question after "How is it that titles like these have become national best sellers and what does it mean?"
  
  The message I was trying to convey, that Humanism represents a universal code of ethics or morals that while sharing many components with different religions is different in the fact that we promote tolerance in areas where traditional religions obstructs the rights of individuals to self determination, was a resounding success. Also as I was starting my speech three men came in and it turned out that one was the mayor of Hamilton and the other two were MP's. I absolutely love the fact that they were sitting there in the front row as I presented the case that the public funding of only catholic schools was a morally irresponsible and repulsive act for a secular democracy to impose as all it does is promote intolerance.
  
  After my speech the mayor of Hamilton got up and actually quoted lines from my speech about the importance of tolerance and universal human values, also during the break I had the moderator of the event come up and basic tell me he agreed with everything I said and told me how he is going to be teach a course at McMaster focusing on some of the topics I had brought up in the talk.
  
  The best part of the event was the question and answer portion, that's where humanism really shined. Many of the questions were directed towards me, one of them was about abortion and how we as humanists view the matter. My answer got over half the women in the audience stand up and applaud.
  
  The best part for me personally was at the end when some of the young kid (8-11) that was there representing the Catholic School Board, came up to me at the end and said "I loved all that stuff you had to say about Science, I don't understand how these other people couldn't understand what you were saying, it seems so simple!" I loved it! It made my day.
  
  I may even have converted the president of the Islamic Association of McMaster over to atheism during my conversation with him, but I realize that my post is already getting verbose, so I will leave that story for another day.
  
  Surfice to say that was the most fun I've had in a long time. I could really tell that I made a lot of people think, even my friend said to me at the end 'man you weren't just up there to give a speech to these guys, you were out there to convert' and I believe it may have work out better than I could have hoped. The organizers of the event are going to be publishing my speech along with everyone else’s and agreed to send me a free digital copy of a professionally produced video of the event.

  End of Article

  At the end of the day I had the sense that we walked out of that conference with the strongest moral arguments out of all the other religions, because ours were the only ones that were tolerant of all people and were actually using arguments based on scientific methods of inquiry.

  Hopefully kwintestal or mincan can fill everyone in on any details I miss or got wrong.

  I hope to see everyone at our next event and may natural selection favour you all!