Chukky, I am very sorry to hear that your 5 year-old child needs heart surgery. I hope everything turns out OK for you and your family. It is true some of the older Wts called transplants cannibalistic. However, you have to keep in mind that when transplants were introduced as a new surgical procedure, many ethical questions were raised. And it was not just the Witnesses who were asking them, but other groups. Was the procedure right in the eyes of God? Also, many early transplants were failures, leading even some in the medical profession to question their usefulness. This may help explain why Jehovah?s Christian Witnesses felt their were moral issues involving transplants. Also, some of the early WT articles linked transplants with transfusions. For instance, 11/15/67 Q&A WT article on whether or not one can donate body parts for transplants after ones dies, says the following ?Would a Christian who, while living, refused to give his blood to be used as a transfusion for some other person, allow his body to be turned over to a group or to a person and possibly at that time have the blood removed and used for transfusion, as has been done with some cadavers? (See, for example, Awake! of October 22, 1962, page 30.) A person might feel that he could stipulate that his body not be used in that way; but if many persons in authority refuse to abide by a Christian?s wishes about blood when he is alive, what reason is there to believe they will show more respect for his wishes after his death? Would they use his organs in cannibalistic medical experiments?? The link with blood transfusions is even seen after 1980, in a 5/15/84 WT Q&A article dealing with bone marrow transplants. (Related to ethical issues the ?Insight on News? section of the WT dated 11/15/74 which alluded to a horrid article by the president of the Institute of Society, Ethics and the Life Sciences, called ?Harvesting the Dead,? which talk about the possibility of using clinically dead bodies for possible organ transplants and to ?draining periodically? for blood to be used as transfusions.) The issue of vaccinations are similar to that of organ transplants. When first introduced into the medical field, many vaccinations were dangerous. People died from them. Ethical and moral issues were raised not only by the Witnesses, but by other religious groups. Even some in the medical profession spoke against them. Now, they are generally safe, and it is up to the Witnesses whether or not they wish to take them. With regarding certain factors found in blood which are now allowed: the way I see it, when blood transfusions became popular in the 1950?s, the question was raised as to whether taking a transfusion would violate the apostles edict of Acts 15:28,29 to abstain from blood. Christians concluded that yes it was. Progress in the medical field as led to new technology whereby blood and its components can be separated. Certain parts, such as albumin, which is also found naturally in vegetables and eggs, can also be separated. If one wanted to get a transfusion from albumin, which is derived from blood, but not necessarily blood, then that is up to him and God. Some Christians, however, will not accept anything derived from blood. The Society while correctly noting that whole blood is strictly condemned in the Bible, also know that it is does not certain components, which are also available naturally in vegetable or eggs, and are separated from whole blood. Therefore, while not saying it is right, and it leaves up to the Christian to decide. A rough illustration - you?re told not to eat a ham and cheese sandwich. But the sandwich also includes mustard. You know not to eat the ham and the cheese, but maybe you can have the mustard.
David2002
JoinedPosts by David2002
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Mother in law told off for speaking to her daughter
by chuckyy inmy wife and i disassociated 3 months ago and my wifes mother is still a jw....but.....she still sees us regularly.
today, a 'clipboard' elder went down to see her.
he has been her book study overseer for a year and has never once gone to see her even though her husband is dying.
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David2002
I have heard that in South American countries, some brothers and sisters who are teachers, are employed by schools run by Catholics. As long as they do have to sign a form, stating that they believe certain teachings, they can in good conscience teach those schools. I was told the in some cases, the South American school system is mainly run by the Church. But by law they have to accept Protestant & children for other faiths into there schools. Children who wish to be exempt from religion classes may do so. This may help explain employment situation of the principal in the school. The article quotes him as saying that he never stated he was Pentecostal.
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Mother in law told off for speaking to her daughter
by chuckyy inmy wife and i disassociated 3 months ago and my wifes mother is still a jw....but.....she still sees us regularly.
today, a 'clipboard' elder went down to see her.
he has been her book study overseer for a year and has never once gone to see her even though her husband is dying.
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David2002
Chukky, In my last post I quoted some of the WT materials because it was posted here that Witnesses completely shun their relatives whereas the WT clearly states that relatives can have contact with them and even let the disfellowshipped come back home. Unfortunately the quotes from the WT and my comments were wrapped as one text. For some reason when I submitted the post, the quotes were not separated from my comments. The words "When one is disfellowshipped from the congregation, whether it is a relative or friend in the congregation, that causes a lot of pain to the members of the congregation, including the elders. They truly feel saddened that one was disfellowship due to not repenting. They feel pain because they still love the person who has left, but hate the wrong conduct that he or she is practicing. But as Christiasn we must follow the biblical course as mentioned in 1 Cor. 5:5-9. But what joy it brings to the congregation when one repents and comes back to true Christianity, just like the joy the father felt from the prodigal son parable, when his son returned and repented!!!", were my own comments and are not from the WT. Someone in a post called me a liar, but I felt that the individual left out pertinent paragraphs from that article, which shows that I was not lying. As can be seem from those articles a family may accept a disfellowshiped relative back into their home. Does this not remind of the prodigal son case? And from my personal experience I have known a few brothers and sisters that have been disfellowshipped. And of course, it is very sad to the entire congregation when that happens. But when they are reinstated, the brothers are so happy that can wait to hug them and welcome them back to the congregation. I myself was disfellowshipped for a time, and my mother and sisters, would invite home from time to time. True, we did not go out together our trips, movies, etc, while I was out, but they did talk to me on the phone, invited for dinner occassionally, showing that they still cared for me. And one elder, who's son was expelled, occassionally invited his son for dinner. Regarding the woman who may have become discouraged for not accepting a transplant: it is my understanding that one reason organ transplants were not accepted before was because they required massive blood transfusions. Nowadays, organ transplants have been done successfully without the use of blood transfusions. This may help explain why now it is left as a matter of conscience. Can a person who was a Witness and still loves God but rejects the Witnesses, can we still speak to them. Well, even that article states in an earlier paragraph that if a husband or wife leaves the truth, since that person is still part of the family, they will still be a family. However, the spirtual ties will be broken. I personally do not understand why some leave the truth to believe in a God that tortures one forever in a hell, to believe that Jesus is God, etc. There was one book by an ex-Witness called Fearless Love, in which she alleges that Witnesses remain Witnesses because of fear. Yet in one paragraph in her book she warns about a burning hell which we will face unless we repent. I ask, who truly is serving Jehovah in a fearless love?
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Mother in law told off for speaking to her daughter
by chuckyy inmy wife and i disassociated 3 months ago and my wifes mother is still a jw....but.....she still sees us regularly.
today, a 'clipboard' elder went down to see her.
he has been her book study overseer for a year and has never once gone to see her even though her husband is dying.
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David2002
Ezekiel 3, You missed what I believe our some important paragraphs from that WT article (WT 9/15/1981): 14 But what if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. 15 For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) Perhaps it seems necessary to bring the parent into the home, temporarily or permanently. Or it may appear advisable to arrange for care where there is medical personnel but where the parent would have to be visited. What is done may depend on factors such as the parent's true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household. 16 This could be true also with regard to a child who had left home but is now disfellowshiped or disassociated. Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring "leaven" into the home?-Gal. 5:9. 17 In Jesus' parable of the prodigal son, the father ran to meet and then accepted his returning son. The father, seeing the lad's pitiful condition, responded with natural parental concern. We can note, though, that the son did not bring home harlots or come with a disposition to continue his sinful life in his father's home. No, he expressed heartfelt repentance and evidently was determined to return to living a clean life.-Luke 15:11-32. Article focusing on Prodigal Son: WT 5/1/82: Have I Gone Too Far? "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy of being called your son," is how the prodigal felt after he "came to his senses." Others have felt the same way-unworthy of being called one of God's family.-Luke 15:17-19. "You realize that you have knowingly turned your back on Jehovah. This guilt gave me a sick feeling," admitted Virginia. "When I started becoming active again, I had a real battle starting to pray again. I kept thinking, 'What does Jehovah want with me, since I turned my back on him.'" Others have felt that they committed the "unforgivable sin." Did the father, who knew that his son's sins were great, view them as unforgivable? Was he cold and indifferent when the boy reappeared? Not at all! He had been looking for his son. "While he was yet a long way off, his father caught sight of him," according to Jesus. (Luke 15:20) Neighbors may only have seen the rags, the dirt, the bare feet, but the father saw "him." He knew what a long way the son had come. It was obvious he had left his "debauched life" and was truly repentant.-Proverbs 28:13. The father ran to embrace his son. The most the son had hoped for was to become a 'hired man,' someone really not a member of the household and in some respects worse off than a slave. Never could he have imagined his father's response: "Quick! Bring out a robe, the best one, and clothe him with it, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. And bring the fattened young bull, slaughter it and let us eat and enjoy ourselves." How wonderfully Jesus illustrated the wholehearted response of the father!-Luke 15:22, 23. The father knew that the prodigal had already paid a dear price-the emotional scars of "living a debauched life" and losing all his money, the agony of being friendless and without food and shelter during a famine, the shame of eating with pigs, and finally, the long journey home. So, too, Jehovah realizes that one truly suffers while "lost" and that it is not easy to return. Yet our compassionate heavenly Father, who is "abundant in loving-kindness," 'will not for all time keep finding fault nor according to our errors bring upon us what we deserve' if we are genuinely repentant and "set matters straight" with him. Some who have committed even gross sins while separated from the Christian congregation, but who return in true repentance, confessing their sins before the elders, may expect loving, considerate treatment leading on to full recovery.-Psalm 103:8-10; 130:3; Isaiah 1:18, 19. True, the Bible speaks of some unfaithful Christians whose sins are not forgiven. However, Paul shows that these are "in opposition" to the Truth and contemptuously trample on the ransom sacrifice by esteeming it as of ordinary value. (Hebrews 10:26-31) But have you ever taken such an extreme step? Your sincere consideration of this material, rather than having contempt for it, indicates that you still have some love for spiritual things. The fact that you feel guilty and disturbed at heart shows that you have not gone too far. Be assured that Jehovah will answer your prayerful request just as he answered that of David, who pleaded: "Forgive my error, for it is considerable."-Psalm 25:11. Applying Godly Principles - WT 1/1/95 Even at the time of disfellowshipping an individual, the elders, as shepherds, will urge him to repent and try to make his way back into Jehovah's favor. Remember the "wicked man" in Corinth. Evidently he changed his way, and Paul later recommended his reinstatement. (2 Corinthians 2:7, 8) Consider also King Manasseh. He was very wicked indeed, but when he finally repented, Jehovah accepted his repentance.-2 Kings 21:10-16; 2 Chronicles 33:9, 13, 19. When one is disfellowshipped from the congregation, whether it is a relative or friend in the congregation, that causes a lot of pain to the members of the congregation, including the elders. They truly feel saddened that one was disfellowship due to not repenting. They feel pain because they still love the person who has left, but hate the wrong conduct that he or she is practicing. But as Christiasn we must follow the biblical course as mentioned in 1 Cor. 5:5-9. But what joy it brings to the congregation when one repents and comes back to true Christianity, just like the joy the father felt from the prodigal son parable, when his son returned and repented!!!
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Mother in law told off for speaking to her daughter
by chuckyy inmy wife and i disassociated 3 months ago and my wifes mother is still a jw....but.....she still sees us regularly.
today, a 'clipboard' elder went down to see her.
he has been her book study overseer for a year and has never once gone to see her even though her husband is dying.
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David2002
To the contrary, Jehovah's Christian Witnesses are a faith based on love. (John 13:34,35; 1 John 4:6-12)
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Mother in law told off for speaking to her daughter
by chuckyy inmy wife and i disassociated 3 months ago and my wifes mother is still a jw....but.....she still sees us regularly.
today, a 'clipboard' elder went down to see her.
he has been her book study overseer for a year and has never once gone to see her even though her husband is dying.
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David2002
There are many Witnesses that speak to their relatives who are out and/or disfellowshipped. It's true that in some cases the association may be limited, but they still see there relatives from time to time. When I was out my most of relatives, including my mother and sisters, continue to associate with me, although limited, even at times even over for dinner. I do find hard to believe though that a young won't speak to her friend just because her parents left the Truth. From my experience in the congregations I was associated with the kids would still hang out with friends even if their parents were disfellowshipped or left the truth.
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Catholic's confession vs Judicial Committe
by JustTickledPink ini remember being indoctrinated how "bad" the catholics were and in particular the confession practise was always ridiculed.. i was thinking about it today, if i felt guilty about something how wonderful it would be to open a confessional booth, talk to a priest, confess, he would say some words to me, tell me what to do as penace and on my way i would go.
i think their thought is that the judging is really left up to god (i hope i have that right) and then i thought about the jc committee.
you walk in, they grill you, you confess, they judge you (not god) and then df you if they think it's warranted.. starting to think that the catholics had it right after all.
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David2002
The JW committee is set up to help people. No one is going to be disfellowshipped if one is truly repentant. I remember as a Catholic, how many families were broken up because one mate or the other was involved in committing adultery for years. All one had to do was confess to the priest, the priest would forgive the person, and after saying a determined number of hail Mary's their sins were supposedely forgiven. The problem was that eventually the adultery would be revealed, in some cases by an pregnancy, and the that would lead to a divorce. I know of a case in which the priest knew of a church member who had an multiple active affairs and nothing was never done, other than getting "forgiven" by the priest. Is that really helping one live a moral life, based on Bible teachings, if one get off scott free? Of course, the apostle Paul did not think so (1 Cor. 5:9-13). Perhaps one of the reasons there are a significant number of pedophile priests is because all they have to do is go to a confession box and get "forgiven" by the priest!!!
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balance = reading WT/Awake, being on TMS - going to college
by stillajwexelder inhere is my idea of balance = reading the wt/awake now and again, being on the tms - going to college and also reading the bible through at least once, the koran and crisis of conscience - to me that seems quite a good balance - thoughts?
comments?
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David2002
I agree with you-to a certain extent. When I went to college, I kept reading my Bible and active in the TMS. It let me remain spiritually active. But reading Crisis of Conscience. I read that book, but as you probably know, the author is an Ex-Witness, a former member of the GB. There are some Witness who have read it, and they started to get doubts. I heard of a few cases that some even left. But the book has too many inaccuries in it, and some Witnesses that have been in the Truth for a long time were able to see the errors and it did not bother them. But some needed help to regain their strong faith. It up to you whether you read or not, but some remember the apostle Paul warned about paying attention to who bring another teaching, especially ex-true Christians. Agape, David
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Why is it that a JW can't say Happy New Year?
by kls innew-years eve my husband and i went to my sister's house to bring in the new-year.
my sister knowing much about jws cornered my husband and said " happy new-year don" and he replied" yep it's a 2005".
i have been away from the bs of jwism for a long time and for the life of me i can not remember why it is wrong to celebrate a new year.
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David2002
Emperor Class, I've been associated with JW's and while I may not celebrate New Years day, I don't have a problem in wishing someone a happy new year. I mean I can say to someone "have a nice day" or "have a good weekend", etc. Wishing someone a happy new year is basically the same, but with a long term in mind. - David
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New JW Interfaith Meeting!
by UnDisfellowshipped inhttp://www.nwaonline.net/281216684861365.bsp .
"the morning news" (arkansas news).
religious leaders to describe traditions of peace .
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David2002
I believe you misunderstand the Witnesses definition of interfaith. They believe that interfaith involves a sharing of false beliefs and participating in a religious function with other groups- such as praying together.
What the article you cited is referring is a discussion of different religious group and their beliefs regarding peace. Certainly, Jehovah's Witnesses are not shy about discussing their beliefs even in a group setting. Jehovah's Witnesses have participated in programs in the past in which other groups were involved in discussing their beliefs. For instance a few years ago a television program on beliefs of life after death included several clergymen from various groups, representing the Budhist, Evangelical, Jewish, Catholic and Jehovah's Witness beliefs. This, of course, was not a interfaith meeting, since the Jehovah's Witness minister was able to prove from the Bible that the beliefs the others were espousing were wrong and non-biblical. In the same way, the discussion on the viewpoints of peace have nothing to do with JW's joining an interfaith forum.