Posts by sparky1

19

Jeremiah 10:23 - "...It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step."

by HereIgo in

i have been accused recently of "trying to direct my own step" because of my questioning the org and refusing to come back to the "truth" for the past 6 years.

i personally still believe in god, i just doubt that he is behind the jw org, that's all.

why is that so hard for jw's to understand?

sparky1

paternalism: 1: a system under which an authority undertakes to supply needs or regulate conduct of those under its control in matters affecting them as individuals as well as in their relations to authority and to each other. - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

The Jehovah's Witness collectivist culture is a religious, social and political (internally and not in regards to the human race at large) system built entirely upon the principles of paternalism. Those in 'authority' base their 'authority' on the Bible as the 'ultimate moral code' . Therefore, the self appointed 'authorities' (Governing Body, Elders, Ministerial Servants etc., etc., etc.) are totally convinced that what they do in their respective positions (whether it is objectively harmful or not) is 'for your own good'. While they fool themselves into thinking that they are 'helping' the individual, they are really 'protecting' the group and advancing it's interests.

5

"50 Years a Watchtower Slave" Chapter 9

by new boy in

chapter 9.

“let’s us move to were the need is greater”.

i remember a “kingdom ministry” heading saying “only x number of months left.” left to what?

sparky1

Here you go new boy. I think that this is the quote you are looking for. It comes from the March 1968 Kingdom Ministry on page 4. Thanks go to JWfacts.com for having this information so readily available!

42

I feel really, really sorry for those born into the Jehovah's Witness religion

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

some facts that make the difference between you and me:.

1 - as a person raised by non jw family, my parents have never loved me based on conditions set out by a group of old men who they don't even know.

how does it feel to know that you are in the unique situation where your parents brought you into the world and said 'i'll show love to you.

sparky1

Wow.....neverendingjourney, your brothers experience is similar to mine in regards to my mother. She placed burdens on my shoulders and those of my siblings that we had no concept of! Watchtower foolishness and her emotional instability combined made for an almost unbearable childhood. Your 'experience' with your 8 year old 'admirer' ripped my heart out ( I'm having a difficult day at work anyway). I had the identical experience as you! In the second grade, the little blonde girl that sat in front of me was constantly talking to me, drawing pictures for me, and bringing me presents. I thought that she was a beautiful angel! I finally blew chalk in her face to get rid of her because I knew that Jehovah and my mother would not approve of a 'worldly romance'. How fu@cking twisted is that! At any rate, most of us born ins were forced into a condition of pseudo maturity and have been working to overcome it our entire lives. In my twenties, I worked for and became business partners with a 'worldly' person who had personal experience with Witnesses although none of his family were involved. He used to say to me: 'Jesus Christ Sparky, it seems to me that you were just born old!'. And that is how I always felt. It reminds me of what Carl Jung once said of himself: 'I am the eternal son of the mother. I was the mythological 'old man' in my youth and now as an old man I shall live my mythological 'youth'.' The good thing about my life experiences is that although I never became an 'alcoholic', I did become a 'workaholic' and that work ethic allowed me to semi-retire at 47 years old.

42

I feel really, really sorry for those born into the Jehovah's Witness religion

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

some facts that make the difference between you and me:.

1 - as a person raised by non jw family, my parents have never loved me based on conditions set out by a group of old men who they don't even know.

how does it feel to know that you are in the unique situation where your parents brought you into the world and said 'i'll show love to you.

sparky1

Thank you for this post, jambon 1. Sometimes being raised in a 'theocratic' household was pure HELL! Point number 5 really resonated with me. I never had children of my own, but had the opportunity to spend a significant amount of time with my non Jehovah's Witness girlfriend's grandchildren since they were born. They are now 17 and 20 years old. Looking at them from a objective standpoint, I could never even consider putting them through what I and my siblings were put through growing up. I watched each phase of their development and could not even conceive of making them do things that we had to do, which were highly inappropriate for our mental, emotional and physical life stage. No wonder so many of us born in's are so fu@ked up. (technically, I was about 18 months old when my mother started to study. Close enough for me to be considered a 'born in', I think) Again, thank you jambon 1 for giving respectful recognition and having empathy for this group.

56

need to "stay alive to xx75" to prove wt wrong? again?

by prologos in

you dont have be alive to 2075 to prove that the wt's anointed generation is and will prove to be wrong, it is!

and you can do it now, by asking just one question:.

does the "generation" prophecy of math.

sparky1

"It does no good to fight Watchtower error with our own contrived errors." - Sparky1

"I kind of object to such statements, for it implies that you are in possession of a deeper absolute standard (istania) on the subject"- prologos

Actually, I never made any such implication that I personally am in 'possession' of any such absolute standard. In describing our different viewpoints (which could possibly be in error), I used the pronoun 'we' and the adjective 'our', which would include both of us and did not single you out as an individual. It's kind of fun being an 'arm chair theologian' because there are a multitude of opinions based on a book (the Bible) which is nothing but 'metaphor' or as you rightly pointed out, 'flawed stories'. You, me and the Watchtower 'brain trust' can't all be correct in our personal interpretation of Jesus words on the 'time of the end', but we could all be wrong.

56

need to "stay alive to xx75" to prove wt wrong? again?

by prologos in

you dont have be alive to 2075 to prove that the wt's anointed generation is and will prove to be wrong, it is!

and you can do it now, by asking just one question:.

does the "generation" prophecy of math.

sparky1

There is no such thing as the 'generation that will not pass away'. Matthew 24:34 states: "Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen." The key word in that statement is until. If I were to write it more plainly, I would say: 'After these thing occur, then this generation will pass away.' The Watchtower Society views these events in a particular chronological timeline. Their understanding is that the events of Matthew 24:7-31 occur and then verse 34 comes into play. Then after the fulfillment of the signs and the beginning of the great tribulation the anointed are 'raptured' and taken to heaven. After these events, ARMAGEDDON takes place as illustrated by Matthew 24:36-44. In order for your theological interpretation to be correct, verse 34 would need to come after verse 44 in the timeline. I am sorry to disagree with you, but as I said before in another post, it does no good to fight Watchtower error with our own contrived errors.

56

need to "stay alive to xx75" to prove wt wrong? again?

by prologos in

you dont have be alive to 2075 to prove that the wt's anointed generation is and will prove to be wrong, it is!

and you can do it now, by asking just one question:.

does the "generation" prophecy of math.

sparky1

prologos...........Look closely at the chart. The bottom line on the chart indicating the overlapping anointed clearly intersects with the perpendicular line that demarcates the GREAT TRIBULATION. After it approaches and intersects the line, it continues through the line for a short distance. This is clearly observable at the letter A in TRIBULATION. Thus the illustration is showing that some of the anointed will be alive during some period of the great tribulation. This is their current teaching and can be verified in the GOD'S KINGDOM RULES book in Chapter 21 entitled GOD'S KINGDOM REMOVES IT'S ENEMIES. Paragraph 15 under the subheading GATHERING OF ANOINTED ONES states: "Instead, Jesus refers to an event that will take place during the coming great tribulation. Thus, apparently at some point after the start of Satan's all-out attack on God's people, anointed ones who still remain on earth will be gathered to heaven."

30

My real name (and a shameless self promotion)

by schnell in

jw
friends

my real name is benjamin heath, i live in southern oregon, usa, and you can always reach me on twitter @ben_heath_.

i have also rebooted my blog at benheathonline.com which is linked with my twitter.

i intend to write about experiences at work and in life, as well as whatever it is i'm reading about at the moment.. i'm a programmer by hobby, a truck driver by profession, an atheist by education and reasoning, and an ex-jw by choice.

sparky1

Schnell, did you know anyone from Klamath Falls? Don Underwood, who was the Construction overseer for a time was from Klamath Falls.

56

need to "stay alive to xx75" to prove wt wrong? again?

by prologos in

you dont have be alive to 2075 to prove that the wt's anointed generation is and will prove to be wrong, it is!

and you can do it now, by asking just one question:.

does the "generation" prophecy of math.

sparky1

Prologos.........As you may realize, I have no love for the Watchtower organization. But it looks to me as if you are creating a scenario that does not exist. David Splanes chart specifically shows that some of the 'anointed' will pass through the 'great tribulation'. Look at the bottom line. As it is drawn, you can see that it intersects the perpendicular line indicating the 'great tribulation' and proceeds beyond it a very tiny bit. This would fit in perfectly with Watchtower theology in that some of the 'anointed' do pass through the great tribulation and are then 'raptured' soon after.

Matthew 24:7-14 - The basic signs of the 'time of the end'.

Matthew 24:15-22 - The disgusting thing causing desolation and the great tribulation.

Matthew 24: 23-30 - False Christ's and celestial signs.

Matthew 24:31 - Rapture of the 'anointed'.

Matthew 24:34 - Proclamation that 'this generation will not pass away until these thing occur'.(The former things spoken about)

Matthew 24: 36-44- The final judgment (Armageddon if you will)

That is the 'timeline' and there is no indication in scripture that Jesus specified that the 'real generation' is carried all the way past Armageddon, past 1000 years into eternity. I admire your tenacity in searching for Watchtower doctrinal errors and trying to expose their theological foolishness, but we cannot refute error with error. If I am missing something or misunderstand your posts please provide me with more solid evidence.

14

The Noblest Hope?

by JW_Rogue in

from this week's wt study:.

all of us, whether of the anointed or of the “other sheep,” hope to see the fulfillment of god’s original purpose and the sanctification of jehovah’s name.

(john 10:16; matt.

sparky1

DATA-DOG............your comment is the exact premise of the book THE HARP OF GOD. Rutherford still taught this in the 1920's as a direct carryover from Russell's teachings. The final chapter is entitled : RESTORATION. This is why he made the claim: "Millions now living will never die." He firmly believed that every member of the human race, living and dead, would receive a chance at life in Paradise and that only the willfully wicked and incorrigible would be destroyed by Jehovah. This scenario seems to be more noble and just than the current Watchtower teaching of a vengeful Jehovah destroying billions of people (children included) just because they had never heard of his 'faithful and discreet slave' or read their inane publications.