jwfacts: Not to make any waves or anything, but you'll notice Rev 19:1 is before the battle of Armageddon and also before the creation of the new heavens and new earth. Rev 6:9,10 reveals that martyred souls wait in Heaven with God, crying out for the Lord to act. Paul reveals in 2 Cor 5:1,8 and Phil 1:23 that for the Christian to be absent from his earthly body is to be at home with Jesus in Heaven. I believe this shows us that at this time we will live with God in Heaven until the final eradication of sin.
Rev 21:2 then speaks of the new Jerusalem "coming out of heaven from God". In Rev 21:3, God declares His dwelling place will be with the righteous men in the holy city. I believe this is the purpose of the new earth.
Revelations is a tricky book because it's so heavily symbolic and everyone has their own opinions of it. For example, 144,000 perhaps isn't an exact number but more of a representation of something, like the 666. For the Jews, the number 6 represented the number of man. Man was created on the 6th day. At the time of the writing of Revelation, the Roman Emperors, or Caesars, were considered divine beings. Citizens were required to prove their loyalty to the State by offering incense as a sacrifice of worship to the Emperor as a god of Rome. The number value of the alphabet of Nero Caesar's name added up to 666. Thus, this number was the number of a Man who symbolized all of man's rebellion against God by making himself to be a god and by requiring others to worship him. My point is that the worship of the beast is the worship of a human being, swearing allegiance to a human being and a human system of government and economics as one's chief loyalty and object of devotion.
But who knows. I never bothered with Revelations much because it is truly such a grey area when it comes in interpretation.
Respectfully, Mikeus
Mikeus
JoinedPosts by Mikeus
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Question, What will happen to the earth and the Animals?
by unbaptized inquestion, if everyone who professes to be christian are going to heaven to rule as priest with jesus, who will be our subjects on earth?
can someone pleasee shed some light on this subject..
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Mikeus
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Question, What will happen to the earth and the Animals?
by unbaptized inquestion, if everyone who professes to be christian are going to heaven to rule as priest with jesus, who will be our subjects on earth?
can someone pleasee shed some light on this subject..
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Mikeus
unbaptized: Ah ok now I understand your question. I had this same exact question about two years ago. I think the following says it best:
At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign forever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. The universe itself will be renewed (the heavens, from a Greek perspective, are the skies and universe): The Church will receive her perfection and the time of the renewal of all things will come. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ. (Acts 3:21, 2 Pet 3:10-13)
Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, "new heavens and a new earth."(Rev 21) It will be the definitive realization of God's plan to bring under a single head "all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth."(Eph 1:10)
In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men.(Rev 21:5) Rev 21:4 - "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."
For man, this consummation will be the final realization of the unity of the human race, which God willed from creation and of which the pilgrim Church has been called to. Those who are united with Christ will form the community of the redeemed, "the holy city" of God, "the Bride, the wife of the Lamb." (Rev 21:2,9) She will not be wounded any longer by sin, stains, self-love, that destroy or wound the earthly community.(Rev 21:27) The beautiful vision, in which God opens himself in an inexhaustible way to the elect, will be the ever-flowing well-spring of happiness, peace, and mutual communion.
For the cosmos, Revelation affirms the profound common destiny of the material world and man:
Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, "so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just," sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.
"We know neither the moment of the consummation of the earth and of man, nor the way in which the universe will be transformed. The form of this world, distorted by sin, is passing away, and we are taught that God is preparing a new dwelling and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, in which happiness will fill and surpass all the desires of peace arising in the hearts of men." -Irenaeus. God will be "all in all" in eternal life.
Eternal life consists in this: the Father, through the Son and in the Holy Spirit, pouring out his heavenly gifts on all things without exception. Thanks to his mercy, we too, men that we are, have received the inalienable promise of eternal life.
I hope that helps! -
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Governing Body; Old/New Light
by Mikeus ini know that sometime, somewhere the gb has claimed to be "jehovah's channel of truth" and given divine knowledge/revelation directly from angels.
could someone please provide me with some quotes?.
i'm speaking with a jw right now who says they don't care if the gb has made changes/mistakes in doctrine in the past because it's "old light".
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Mikeus
Yessss thanks Morocco that's exactly what I was looking for.
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Question, What will happen to the earth and the Animals?
by unbaptized inquestion, if everyone who professes to be christian are going to heaven to rule as priest with jesus, who will be our subjects on earth?
can someone pleasee shed some light on this subject..
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Mikeus
You're looking at the concept of "ruling" in a very linear sense. Christians are described as the Body of Christ, with Christ being the Head. Since Christ rules Heaven and Earth, it is the new heaven and earth we will rule with Him. For example: a king rules over a kingdom and all who live there are subjected to him. But if all the people suddenly were elevated to kingship alongside the king, they would all rule the land together, i.e. they would all own it and share it as one.
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Governing Body; Old/New Light
by Mikeus ini know that sometime, somewhere the gb has claimed to be "jehovah's channel of truth" and given divine knowledge/revelation directly from angels.
could someone please provide me with some quotes?.
i'm speaking with a jw right now who says they don't care if the gb has made changes/mistakes in doctrine in the past because it's "old light".
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Mikeus
Thanks for the help everyone! This information is definitely helpful. Thanks again!
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Governing Body; Old/New Light
by Mikeus ini know that sometime, somewhere the gb has claimed to be "jehovah's channel of truth" and given divine knowledge/revelation directly from angels.
could someone please provide me with some quotes?.
i'm speaking with a jw right now who says they don't care if the gb has made changes/mistakes in doctrine in the past because it's "old light".
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Mikeus
I know that sometime, somewhere the GB has claimed to be "Jehovah's channel of truth" and given divine knowledge/revelation directly from angels. Could someone please provide me with some quotes?
I'm speaking with a JW right now who says they don't care if the GB has made changes/mistakes in doctrine in the past because it's "old light". They only care about what they say now. What's the best way to get around this? Any WT publication quotes on this topic would be extremely helpful as well. Thanks! -
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Translation of the Greek word "proskuneo"
by bob1999 incan someone explain why the nwt translates this word as "worship" in 42 of the 60 occurances in the new testament while translating it "do obedience to" in the 18 instances where jesus is the recipient?
this seems so blatantly wrong.
do they think no one will notice or do they have an explanation?
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Mikeus
To the outsider, it's plain to us that they're choosing the lesser definition to conform to their doctrine. Yet to the Witness, it's simply that they're conforming their doctrine to Scripture.
Luckily, we are able to refute this by going to older publications that have angels worshiping Jesus in Heb 1:6 and are now only doing obeisance to him. An obviously biased change. -
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MAT 24:14 HAS BEEN FULLFILLED MP3 FROM BETHEL HEAVY
by What-A-Coincidence inwarning: the wtbts is becoming more cultish as evidenced in this mp3.
listener take heed.
turn on all your cult warning alarms on.. .
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Mikeus
Jeff - I agree with you that KN37 was nothing new in respect to content. But it was given to the Witnesses with direct instruction that it would trigger the big T. Now supposedly the GB has completed Matthew 24:14? Maybe I'm over-analyzing, but this seems like a setup for something. I really hope they do set a new date, because as you said, it would be a bullet to their head. Although, hardened Witnesses will just say the light wasn't bright enough and now it's brighter, just like they say for all the other dates.
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MAT 24:14 HAS BEEN FULLFILLED MP3 FROM BETHEL HEAVY
by What-A-Coincidence inwarning: the wtbts is becoming more cultish as evidenced in this mp3.
listener take heed.
turn on all your cult warning alarms on.. .
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Mikeus
Oh boy. No wonder my grandmother-in-law and an elder finally came by my house last Saturday to check in on my inactive wife. I scoured the WT and Awake they left, and the only thing to my interest was a small paragraph about how to stay vigilant in shunning your children, and by this example they'll come back to Jehovah (gag).
IMHO I think this and KN37 is a play for more recruits. Look at the numbers for baptized members in 1975. There was a huge spike in people joining. Membership is down right now, so they need a juicy (as well as urgent) event to pressure people into joining, not to mention work harder for more studies.
What really boggles my mind is how long-time Dubs who went through the 1975 song and dance can sit in the audience and eat up what this man is saying. The minds of the rank and file are truly in a sad state. Wake up, O Sleepers, and rise from the dead! -
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Subject: KN #37 Has had an effect
by purplesofa ini got this from a witness yesterday.
don't know if it was already posted.. http://www.totalcatholic.com/universe/index.php?news_id=2056&start=0&catego.
ukraine sees friction between jehova's witnesses and mainstream christiansposted on january 03, 2007. .
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Mikeus
Is it right to persecute in order to be persecuted? Can one strike without the expectation of being struck back? It says a lot about the honor and peace among the "unsaid denominations" who haven't gotten angry/irate over the WT's obvious bashing.