Posts by jw

51

I realize people hear lack faith, Can't change them, but may this will help

by jw in

the apostle paul told the christians in the ancient city of philippi: "this is what i continue praying, that your love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment.

philippians 1:9

similarly, accurate knowledge is needed for you to be motivated to believe in god.

jw

Faith in what by the way. Faith in God or Faith in the Watchtower Society?

GOD

41

i realize it is impossible to expect that no one will post to this thread, and most threads don't survive more than a page or two before becoming sidetracked, but perhaps you and i can discuss whatever is on your mind in an "intelligent" manner in this thread.

maybe we could begin by requesting that this area be fairly undisturbed and at least that any additional posts to this thread outside of our discussion be of a statement nature and not distracting from the point by asking side-questions or hurling ad hominem.. first though, i would like some sense of what you consider to be an intelligent way to discuss issues.. can we agree to try and avoid logical fallacies and argue only points we each feel competent to address independently?

jw

Since you do not believe that last, what do you believe about the classes of sheep that differs from the Governing Body dogma, and on what Scriptures do you base your viewpoint?

I believe some humans will never die at all and other humans will be witness to that in our time.

John 3: 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The world [of wicked mankind] is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever."—1 John 2:17.

I believe some humans will go to heaven but will be transformed into angelic form. And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth. I believe some humans will enter paradise here on earth. Evildoers themselves will be cut off, but those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth."—Psalm 37:9. John 3:16) Those asleep in the grave but who are in God's memory will be resurrected, not to heaven, but to life on a cleansed earth.

41

jw, a thread for you and I...

by AuldSoul in

jw,.

i realize it is impossible to expect that no one will post to this thread, and most threads don't survive more than a page or two before becoming sidetracked, but perhaps you and i can discuss whatever is on your mind in an "intelligent" manner in this thread.

maybe we could begin by requesting that this area be fairly undisturbed and at least that any additional posts to this thread outside of our discussion be of a statement nature and not distracting from the point by asking side-questions or hurling ad hominem.. first though, i would like some sense of what you consider to be an intelligent way to discuss issues.. can we agree to try and avoid logical fallacies and argue only points we each feel competent to address independently?

jw

I am unable to locate a particular scripture in reference to my future answer. Patience is a virtue.

Since you do not believe that last, what do you believe about the classes of sheep that differs from the Governing Body dogma, and on what Scriptures do you base your viewpoint?

51

I realize people hear lack faith, Can't change them, but may this will help

by jw in

the apostle paul told the christians in the ancient city of philippi: "this is what i continue praying, that your love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment.

philippians 1:9

similarly, accurate knowledge is needed for you to be motivated to believe in god.

jw

The apostle Paul told the Christians in the ancient city of Philippi: "This is what I continue praying, that your love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment." ( Philippians 1:9 )

Similarly, accurate knowledge is needed for you to be motivated to believe in God. "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld," Paul said. ( Hebrews 11:1 )

1 Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. 2 For by means of this the men of old times had witness borne to them.

3 By faith we perceive that the systems of things were put in order by Gods word, so that what is beheld has come to be out of things that do not appear.

4 By faith Abel offered God a sacrifice of greater worth than Cain, through which [faith] he had witness borne to him that he was righteous, God bearing witness respecting his gifts; and through it he, although he died, yet speaks.

5 By faith Enoch was transferred so as not to see death, and he was nowhere to be found because God had transferred him; for before his transference he had the witness that he had pleased God well. 6 Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please [him] well, for he that approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him.

7 By faith Noah, after being given divine warning of things not yet beheld, showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; and through this [faith] he condemned the world, and he became an heir of the righteousness that is according to faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed in going out into a place he was destined to receive as an inheritance; and he went out, although not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he resided as an alien in the land of the promise as in a foreign land, and dwelt in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the very same promise. 10 For he was awaiting the city having real foundations, the builder and maker of which [city] is God.

11 By faith also Sarah herself received power to conceive seed, even when she was past the age limit, since she esteemed him faithful who had promised. 12 Hence also from one [man], and him as good as dead, there were born [children] just as the stars of heaven for multitude and as the sands that are by the seaside, innumerable.

13 In faith all these died, although they did not get the [fulfillment of the] promises, but they saw them afar off and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land. 14 For those who say such things give evidence that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. 15 And yet, if they had indeed kept remembering that [place] from which they had gone forth, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to heaven. Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God, for he has made a city ready for them.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, as good as offered up Isaac, and the man that had gladly received the promises attempted to offer up [his] only-begotten [son], 18 although it had been said to him: What will be called your seed will be through Isaac. 19 But he reckoned that God was able to raise him up even from the dead; and from there he did receive him also in an illustrative way.

20 By faith also Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

21 By faith Jacob, when about to die, blessed each of the sons of Joseph and worshiped leaning upon the top of his staff.

22 By faith Joseph, nearing his end, made mention of the exodus of the sons of Israel; and he gave a command concerning his bones.

23 By faith Moses was hid for three months by his parents after his birth, because they saw the young child was beautiful and they did not fear the order of the king.

24 By faith Moses, when grown up, refused to be called the son of the daughter of Pharaoh,

25 choosing to be ill-treated with the people of God rather than to have the temporary enjoyment of sin,

26 because he esteemed the reproach of the Christ as riches greater than the treasures of Egypt; for he looked intently toward the payment of the reward.

27 By faith he left Egypt, but not fearing the anger of the king, for he continued steadfast as seeing the One who is invisible.

28 By faith he had celebrated the passover and the splashing of the blood, that the destroyer might not touch their firstborn ones.

29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea as on dry land, but on venturing out upon it the Egyptians were swallowed up.

30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days.

31 By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish with those who acted disobediently, because she received the spies in a peaceable way.

32 And what more shall I say? For the time will fail me if I go on to relate about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David as well as Samuel and the [other] prophets,

33 who through faith defeated kingdoms in conflict, effected righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

34 stayed the force of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from a weak state were made powerful, became valiant in war, routed the armies of foreigners.

35 Women received their dead by resurrection; but other [men] were tortured because they would not accept release by some ransom, in order that they might attain a better resurrection.

36 Yes, others received their trial by mockings and scourgings, indeed, more than that, by bonds and prisons.

37 They were stoned, they were tried, they were sawn asunder, they died by slaughter with the sword, they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, while they were in want, in tribulation, under ill-treatment;

38 and the world was not worthy of them. They wandered about in deserts and mountains and caves and dens of the earth.

39 And yet all these, although they had witness borne to them through their faith, did not get the [fulfillment of the] promise,

40 as God foresaw something better for us, in order that they might not be made perfect apart from us.

41

jw, a thread for you and I...

by AuldSoul in

jw,.

i realize it is impossible to expect that no one will post to this thread, and most threads don't survive more than a page or two before becoming sidetracked, but perhaps you and i can discuss whatever is on your mind in an "intelligent" manner in this thread.

maybe we could begin by requesting that this area be fairly undisturbed and at least that any additional posts to this thread outside of our discussion be of a statement nature and not distracting from the point by asking side-questions or hurling ad hominem.. first though, i would like some sense of what you consider to be an intelligent way to discuss issues.. can we agree to try and avoid logical fallacies and argue only points we each feel competent to address independently?

jw

(1) Do you believe in two separate classes of sheep who will attain to two separate rewards?

no

41

jw, a thread for you and I...

by AuldSoul in

jw,.

i realize it is impossible to expect that no one will post to this thread, and most threads don't survive more than a page or two before becoming sidetracked, but perhaps you and i can discuss whatever is on your mind in an "intelligent" manner in this thread.

maybe we could begin by requesting that this area be fairly undisturbed and at least that any additional posts to this thread outside of our discussion be of a statement nature and not distracting from the point by asking side-questions or hurling ad hominem.. first though, i would like some sense of what you consider to be an intelligent way to discuss issues.. can we agree to try and avoid logical fallacies and argue only points we each feel competent to address independently?

jw

So, if I understand you correctly, you believe all authority belongs to Jesus in heaven and on earth, (Matthew 28:18) and our mediator (1 Timothy 2:5

YES, To these scriptures.

41

jw, a thread for you and I...

by AuldSoul in

jw,.

i realize it is impossible to expect that no one will post to this thread, and most threads don't survive more than a page or two before becoming sidetracked, but perhaps you and i can discuss whatever is on your mind in an "intelligent" manner in this thread.

maybe we could begin by requesting that this area be fairly undisturbed and at least that any additional posts to this thread outside of our discussion be of a statement nature and not distracting from the point by asking side-questions or hurling ad hominem.. first though, i would like some sense of what you consider to be an intelligent way to discuss issues.. can we agree to try and avoid logical fallacies and argue only points we each feel competent to address independently?

jw

(1) Do you believe in two separate classes of sheep who will attain to two separate rewards?

Are you referring to judgement day?

(2) Do you believe a Christian should pray to Jesus, their King and High Priest, and also to the Father?

No, They should pray through Jesus to Pray to Jehovah.

(3) Do you believe it is disrespectful or improper to use an honorific instead of God's personal name when referring to him or speaking to him?

No, But Jehovah has made it clear in the scriptures to honor his name,

(4) Do you believe the message Paul took to Gentiles was about Jehovah or about Christ?

Niether, it was a message from Jehovah for the Gentiles.

These should give us quite a lot of fodder to start chewing through intelligently.

131

This forum

by jw in

.

can you people honestly say gods spirit is guiding you?].

i think not!

jw

jw:
The bread and drink that is being referred to is representing biblical knowledge that one must seek!

Do you genuinely believe that??? Yes : Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) John 6:27 ergazesqe <2038> (5737) {WORK} mh <3361> {NOT [FOR]} thn <3588> {THE} brwsin <1035> {FOOD} thn <3588> {WHICH} apollumenhn <622> (5734) {PERISHES,} alla <235> {BUT [FOR]} thn <3588> {THE} brwsin <1035> {FOOD} thn <3588> {WHICH} menousan <3306> (5723) {ABIDES} eiV <1519> {UNTO} zwhn <2222> {LIFE} aiwnion <166> {ETERNAL,} hn <3739> {WHICH} o <3588> {THE} uioV <5207> tou <3588> {SON} anqrwpou <444> {OF MAN} umin <5213> {TO YOU} dwsei <1325> (5692) {WILL GIVE;} touton <5126> gar <1063> {FOR HIM} o <3588> {THE} pathr <3962> {FATHER} esfragisen <4972> (5656) o <3588> {SEALED, [EVEN]} qeoV <2316> {GOD.}
I further quote you as saying:
Bull Crap, no one here wants to debate the real issues in an intelligent way.
And you honestly think that your reply was intelligent?
yes.
For your information I was what you would call "anointed", and there are a few of us on the board. We left the WTS because we discovered the true "evil slave", and I can assure you that it isn't those who leave a mere religion...
Well, that would mean you are afallen annointed one.
Why do I bring this up? Simply because your nonsense answer exemplifying your discernment of the body and blood of Christ (1Cor.11:29) is a travesty. Alas, your comments since coming to this board are psuedo-intellectual babbling, and I wish it were not so.
Ever think you could be wrong about the bread and wine issue.

41

jw, a thread for you and I...

by AuldSoul in

jw,.

i realize it is impossible to expect that no one will post to this thread, and most threads don't survive more than a page or two before becoming sidetracked, but perhaps you and i can discuss whatever is on your mind in an "intelligent" manner in this thread.

maybe we could begin by requesting that this area be fairly undisturbed and at least that any additional posts to this thread outside of our discussion be of a statement nature and not distracting from the point by asking side-questions or hurling ad hominem.. first though, i would like some sense of what you consider to be an intelligent way to discuss issues.. can we agree to try and avoid logical fallacies and argue only points we each feel competent to address independently?

jw

Okay, jw, sounds fair. To what extent should I credit that you agree with JW dogma?

None, I do not agree with any of The organizations man made works. If if does not agree with biblical scripture you can agree that we will agree.

Should I argue as though you accept all JW dogma and find out as we go which bits you disagree with, to save time—with the understanding that you will let me know when I have attributed a belief to you that you do not actually have, simply because you profess to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

This will realy confuse you. I am A Jehovah Witness not a witness to the Jw organization!

If you teach JW dogma, on what basis did you posit that John 6 is teaching "The bread and drink that is being referred to is representing biblical knowledge that one must seek!"

Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) John 6:27 ergazesqe <2038> (5737) {WORK} mh <3361> {NOT [FOR]} thn <3588> {THE} brwsin <1035> {FOOD} thn <3588> {WHICH} apollumenhn <622> (5734) {PERISHES,} alla <235> {BUT [FOR]} thn <3588> {THE} brwsin <1035> {FOOD} thn <3588> {WHICH} menousan <3306> (5723) {ABIDES} eiV <1519> {UNTO} zwhn <2222> {LIFE} aiwnion <166> {ETERNAL,} hn <3739> {WHICH} o <3588> {THE} uioV <5207> tou <3588> {SON} anqrwpou <444> {OF MAN} umin <5213> {TO YOU} dwsei <1325> (5692) {WILL GIVE;} touton <5126> gar <1063> {FOR HIM} o <3588> {THE} pathr <3962> {FATHER} esfragisen <4972> (5656) o <3588> {SEALED, [EVEN]} qeoV <2316> {GOD.}

I cannot find that interpretation of that Scipture in the WT Library CD-ROM. Is this brand new light? I read every occurrence on the CD and couldn't find the teaching that you put forward here. Where did that doctrine originate?

John 6:27

Respectfully,

AuldSoul

41

jw, a thread for you and I...

by AuldSoul in

jw,.

i realize it is impossible to expect that no one will post to this thread, and most threads don't survive more than a page or two before becoming sidetracked, but perhaps you and i can discuss whatever is on your mind in an "intelligent" manner in this thread.

maybe we could begin by requesting that this area be fairly undisturbed and at least that any additional posts to this thread outside of our discussion be of a statement nature and not distracting from the point by asking side-questions or hurling ad hominem.. first though, i would like some sense of what you consider to be an intelligent way to discuss issues.. can we agree to try and avoid logical fallacies and argue only points we each feel competent to address independently?

jw

First though, I would like some sense of what you consider to be an intelligent way to discuss issues.

Fisrt of all , let us agree to disagree in advance. So we don't waste a lot of uneeded rhetoric!

Can we agree to try and avoid logical fallacies and argue only points we each feel competent to address independently? Agreed.

May I assume you have no objection to using the New World Translation as an authority?

No objection, I perfer these to NWT.

Click here: Hebrew Bible in English / Mechon-Mamre Click here: Search for 'John 6:24' in the Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT version

In other words, I wouldn't even want to begin a discussion unless I know what you consider to be fair dealings in intellectual discourse. As I have said before, I believe you are sincere. I also believe you are reasonable in certain ways, but that you are easily offended.

Yes very easily offended.

Respectfully,

AuldSoul