i just came upon this in a search for something else:.
< http://www.geocities.com/meskojay/.
classic reading:.
I really miss the presence of Joe. I recall his exhaustive effort in archiving H2O's discussions and putting them on Internet servers (which are still out there). His absence has left a sad void. How is Joe's wife doing?
Derrick
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.
-- William Blake (Auguries of Innocence)
here i was thinking i was the only one with a dirty past.
the elders didn't understand why i had a drinking problem.
thought it must of been fornication and well, the sister i was studying with thought i had to have been my brother-in-law cause i was drinking with him.
Take a look at the closest images that I've found so far that start to approach the depth of my hope for a place where you and I and every honest hearted soul will live:
http://www.lassenlasvegas.com/Art/lelndscpocean.htm
Even as my eyes gaze on these images now there are tears in my eyes, because I know this is only a blurry glimpse into the paradise Jehovah has in store for those who love him.
I know what you mean about longing for having every tear wiped from your eyes. Indeed you will one day forget this ancient civilization and its treachery on your life. In Isaiah 65:7 the importance of wiping out these terrible memories is emphasized. After Jehovah promises "Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth", he continues with these comforting words: "The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind."
Life will be very good in the coming age of prosperity and world peace, and the horrible past we suffered will be as if it never happened. Our memories will be cleansed of crippling sadness and enriched with an eternity of true happiness, contentment, fulfillment and loving personal relationships with others, perhaps even extending to a few special angels and of course Jesus Christ and Jehovah God.
Derrick
P.S. Come visit sometime at my "home" in cyberspace, http://www.aimoo.com/h2o and also take a peek sometime at my homepage at http://www.geocities.com/cogentminded/ .
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.
-- William Blake (Auguries of Innocence)
he's the "knight in shining armor" for many young ones across the globe, who were spared from predators moving in for the kill.
who was instrumental amongst jehovah's witnesses in chasing these monsters off?
it should have been brothers in the watchtower society.
Text quote about Bill Bowen from the web site http://www.meriaheller.com/TheSundayShow.html
_______________________________________________________
Pedophile Jehovah's Witnesses?
http://audio.netradiolive.com:8080/ramgen/meria/sunday093001.rm
Meet Elder William Bowen of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Mr. Bowen exposes the doctrine that protects child molesters/pedophiles within the JW Organization. Mr. Bowen hosts the site www.silentlambs.org which is a listing of known facts regarding same. If you are in need of reporting this abuse call 1-877-WTABUSE for help. Why DO JW's protect the molester and not the victim? What is their "need two witnesses" practice regarding believability or prosecution? Why do they say NOT to take these matters into the courts? What protection is afforded the victim? Bill is a HERO for children and truly a man of God for speaking out against such injustice.
he's the "knight in shining armor" for many young ones across the globe, who were spared from predators moving in for the kill.
who was instrumental amongst jehovah's witnesses in chasing these monsters off?
it should have been brothers in the watchtower society.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** Rbi8 Numbers 31:14-18 ***
And Moses grew indignant at the appointed men of the combat forces, the chiefs of the thousands and the chiefs of the hundreds who were coming in from the military expedition. 15 So Moses said to them: “Have YOU preserved alive every female? … 17 And now kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has had intercourse with man by lying with a male. 18 And preserve alive for yourselves all the little ones among the women who have not known the act of lying with a male.
*** Rbi8 Judges 21:10-12 ***
10 Hence the assembly proceeded to send twelve thousand of the most valiant men there and to command them, saying: “Go, and YOU must strike the inhabitants of Ja'besh-gil'e•ad with the edge of the sword, even the women and the little ones. 11 And this is the thing that YOU should do: Every male and every woman that has experienced lying with a male YOU should devote to destruction.” 12 However, they found out of the inhabitants of Ja'besh-gil'e•ad four hundred girls, virgins, that had not had intercourse with a man by lying with a male. So they brought them to the camp at Shi'loh, which is in the land of Ca'naan.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could you please point to the spesific lies in the Bible text above?
Norm, although the Bible writers were inspired of God to write the canonized scriptures (both Hebrew and Greek), the message was NOT intended to be "perfect." An example of perfection was the ten commandments which Jehovah inscribed in stone for Moses. As you well know the Bible was NOT inscribed by Jehovah directly. It was penned by imperfect humans.
Now suppose the ten commandments were penned by Moses instead of directly by Jehovah? Can you imagine the possible biases that might creep into the text?
Then why did Jehovah chose to use ordinary, imperfect and sometimes biased humans to inspired to write down the Biblical account?
As you may recall in the book of Proverbs, the divinely inspired wise man wrote: "The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining ever brighter till the full light of day." (Proverbs 4:18)
The Hebrew scriptures are "like the first gleam of dawn," Norm, when the world was in a primitive age and mankind were for the most part barbarians. Jehovah had to work with these primitives, and somehow communicate with them. They related to Jehovah as a God of war, because war is all they knew. Much of the barbarianism you read in the Hebrew scriptures originated from man during the course of God's leading him, ultimately, toward this age of enlightenment, in preparation for the grand finale ... a kingdom of peace and prosperity.
You might argue that even if Jehovah didn't give the orders to kill those precious little babies and other heinous acts against women and kids, that he bears responsibility. You have argued that God has the power not to sit back and watch bad things to happen to good people. However, in all due respect, your reasoning is marred. You seem to keep ignoring the bigger picture.
In Isaiah 30:26, notice that Jehovah takes full responsibility for the acts of people whom, in retrospect, we now view as barbarians: "The moon will shine like the sun, and the sunlight will be seven times brighter, like the light of seven full days, when the LORD binds up the bruises of his people and heals the wounds he inflicted."
This scripture appears to point to an age of enlightenment when knowledge of Jehovah's creation -- from the sciences to earth's geologic history to the human anatomy and its health to moral awareness -- will be abundant amongst humans. The suffering humans endured throughout history and the "bruises" that Jehovah inflicted on people were for a purpose. Although mankind could have obliterated itself, we have reached this present-day golden age of prosperity and spiritual enlightenment. Soon in a symbolic but very real sense the collective light of seven full days of human experience as Jehovah patiently helped his creation reach a spiritual plateau, will shine extremely brightly. So brightly will it shine, that even the Moon that reflects sunlight "will shine like the sun, and the sunlight will be seven times brighter." All these terrible things you point to that mankind has endured through human history are coming to an end, Norm, when Jehovah "binds up the bruises of his people and heals the wounds he inflicted." Again, these wounds were really inflicted by imperfect men but Jehovah takes full responsibility.
I was determined to keep the explanation simple. I hope you can now understand that there was no other way for Jehovah to bring humanity from its debased state after the fall of Adam and Eve, to its present state of spiritual enlightenment and preparation for the restoration of Eden. This restoration will be accomplished through the divine cleansing our planet to ecological perfection.
The history of human civilization has without argument been a bloodbath of pain and suffering for all. All of those precious little babies who died, and everyone else for that matter who suffered the wages of our sinful condition brought about from the disobedience of our ancestors Adam and Eve, will return to life someday! They will not remember their pain and suffering, Norm, so why concern yourself? I'm not minimizing it, but this is par for the course in human history. Blaming God when these tragedies were a consequence of God's efforts to SAVE mankind -- and when all concerned will live forever in peace and joy without the memories of their past and primitive lives -- is completely illogical in light mankind's final outcome when Jehovah assures us that "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." (Revelation 21:4)
Derrick
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.
-- William Blake (Auguries of Innocence)
he's the "knight in shining armor" for many young ones across the globe, who were spared from predators moving in for the kill.
who was instrumental amongst jehovah's witnesses in chasing these monsters off?
it should have been brothers in the watchtower society.
Bill wrote:
It is hard for wicked men to understand the simple act of compassion. The first comment made to me when approached about the use of attorneys was, "they can have all the money, I just want to stop them from hurting anyone else like the hurt me." Yet money is what survivors disserve above anything else. Money buys therapy and gives them at least one means to find a way to cope with what has happened to them. Yet they care not about these issues but think about the innocence of children and protecting them from the pain they know. A person who sacrifices their pain to protect the innocent.......That is so true, Bill. It takes the most genuine form of courage from a true "hero" to endure the pain while protecting the innocent, as you also have.What better way could you define the word Hero?
I am honored to know these "heroes" and I pray when the time comes to stand and deliver that their courage will fuel the fire that destroys what WT policy is doing to children.You might recall what Mark Twain once wrote, "It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare."
As Randy said, you are a rare gem. I consider you a "hero" alongside of the other "heroes" you mentioned for demonstrating moral courage.
Derrick
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.
-- William Blake (Auguries of Innocence)
he's the "knight in shining armor" for many young ones across the globe, who were spared from predators moving in for the kill.
who was instrumental amongst jehovah's witnesses in chasing these monsters off?
it should have been brothers in the watchtower society.
Norm wrote:
If we for a moment take time to consider Jah’s track record so far in helping the “little ones” I am afraid that the future for them looks just as bleak and hopeless as the past.Poor-in-spirit Norm, you continue to perpetrate these lies against God every chance you get. It is quite obvious you are filled with anger against One whom you so thoroughly misunderstand -- even to the point of rage -- and direct your hostility to the One who has blessed you with prosperity in Norway.
Jah has never shown any interest whatsoever in the little ones other than causing them even more harm.
I can't help wondering whom do you thank when good things in life come your way?
I'll leave a few soul haunting thoughts...
An atheist's most embarrassing moment is when he feels profoundly thankful for something, but can't think of anybody to thank for it.
- Mary Ann Vincent.
The religion of the atheist has a God-shaped blank at its heart.
- H.G. Wells
Some are atheists by neglect; others are so by affectation; they that think there is no God at some times do not think so at all times.
- Benjamin Whichcote
Why is the Atheist's main target always Jesus of Nazareth, and never Buddha, Confucius, or Mohammed? Why is the aspiring athlete's target always the true champion and never the also rans?
- Anonymous
I was at this time living, like so many Atheists or Antitheists, in a whirl of contradictions. I maintained that God did not exist. I was also very angry with God for not existing. I was equally angry with Him for creating a world.
- C.S. Lewis
[As an atheist] I never noticed that the very strength of the pessimists' case poses us a problem. If the universe is so bad, how on earth did human beings ever come to attribute it to the activity of a wise and good Creator?
- C.S. Lewis
Atheistic morality is not impossible, but it will never answer our purpose.
- Roswell Dwight Hitchcock
He only is a true atheist to whom the predicates of the Divine Being - for example, love, wisdom and justice - are nothing.
- Ludwig Andreas Feuerbach
Derrick
he's the "knight in shining armor" for many young ones across the globe, who were spared from predators moving in for the kill.
who was instrumental amongst jehovah's witnesses in chasing these monsters off?
it should have been brothers in the watchtower society.
Yes, he's a gem.
probably nearly broke, shunned, and vilified by his own family.
I'll give him a cheer.
Why did it take so long for somebody to step up to this?
People are afraid of losing something.
I guess Bill is not.
thanks Bill,
Randy
I had no idea what Bill has endured. If I had the financial means, then I would help him. Perhaps one of these days if I inherit something or win the lotto or stocks go crazy again or whatever, I'll be in a position to show my deepest appreciation. My deepest wish is that those with the financial means reach out to him now.
IMO, Bill is truly as close to the "prototype Jehovah's Witness" as you will ever find. He's what I thought, as a naive teen almost a quarter century ago, all Witnesses were like. His life is about the values that the Society falsely preaches is the fruit of its teachings, when in fact the proverb about reaping the whirlwinds of destruction is more applicable. In fact it is rare to see many in this religion live selfless lives and not afraid to lose material things without any promise of immediate reward. Many JWs who sold everything in 1975 (and I was there to observe this phenomenon as a newly baptized one), actually did so (IMO, based on observation and gut instinct) in order to ensure their survival through Armageddon. They wanted to be literally "saved alive" as Revelation mentions. Would they have sold everything to save a child? I think not.
To balance these aforementioned platitudes, I guess that I should confess publicly that even I would be too chicken to spend everything, even jeopardizing my retirement nestegg, for legal expenses to defend a child. I would scream bloody murder to the media, and try to help as so many who volunteer their time do. Indeed, nobody is expected to impoverish themselves or spend beyond their means of living for these worthy and live-or-death causes such as the protection of children from pedophiles. HOWEVER, BILL CHOSE TO RISE ABOVE THIS.
Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if Bill has shamed and embarassed before God and men the "faithful and discreet slave" in this area. In a religion filled with those who have proven themselves slackers -- strutting around pretending they are special because they "Pioneer" and turn-in many hours a month on their Watchtower timesheets -- it appears that one Bill Bowen will join the few authentic Christians.
Jove strikes the Titans down
Not when they set about their mountain-piling
But when another rock would crown the work.
-Paracelsus. Part iv. (Robert Browning* (1812–1889))
The Watchtower stamps out "true Christians" on an assembly line by the thousands a day in an unbalanced attempt to "get the word out to everybody" and "mark" those who slam doors in their faces. They really should be teaching people to use their time more fruitfully for the benefit of the oppressed -- whether it's child abuse or the plight of the elderly -- in the selfless spirit of Silentlambs.
Derrick
___________________________
* Source: http://www.bartleby.com/100/473.html
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.
-- William Blake (Auguries of Innocence)
he's the "knight in shining armor" for many young ones across the globe, who were spared from predators moving in for the kill.
who was instrumental amongst jehovah's witnesses in chasing these monsters off?
it should have been brothers in the watchtower society.
I think so!
He's the "Knight in Shining Armor" for many young ones across the globe, who were spared from predators moving in for the kill. Who was instrumental amongst Jehovah's Witnesses in chasing these monsters off? It should have been brothers in the Watchtower Society. Yet their shameful inaction left an elder willing to risk all no choice but to fight a horde of creatures that most would have dismissed as an impossible battle.
These are terrible times for children. Their innocence has been robbed by a breed of stalker unimaginable just a decade ago. Imagine their innocent worlds shattered by some adults who are "monsters" that prey these innocents? Many parents are living in denial, having grave difficulty facing this unfortunate truth. Thanks to public awareness of this problem, many parents are now protecting their children without projecting fear. Such is an exhausting task and nightmarish ordeal for many parents to endure in silence.
Young children today raised in Jehovah's Witnesses families were promised safety aboard a "spiritual ark." However, mounting cases of child abuse in the congregations has revealed a stark reality. JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES DO NOT ENJOY SPECIAL PROTECTION FROM GOD ANYMORE THAN ANY OTHER CHURCH CONGREGATION. Simply looking at the "fruit" of the "tree" in this regard proves that what I have just said, although sad, is true.
The joy of families who attend Kingdom Halls and imagined they were basking in Jehovah's exclusive favoritism and protection over other families has caused some serious disillusionment! Even heartbreak. They may feel helpless when their efforts do not prevent their precious child from becoming the next victim. The fear experienced by these children is often worse than the terror a young child Rebeccca (aka "Newt") experienced in this often-quoted scene from a classic science fiction movie released almost 20 years ago...
Newt: "My mommy always said there were no monsters, no real ones, but there are."
Ripley: "Yes, there are."
Newt: "Why do grown-ups say that?"
Ripley: "Because usually, it's true."
-Aliens
Once upon a time in a kingdom that seems far, far away, a child can look forward to a time when there are no monsters, no real ones. Until then, the Knights in shining armor will continue to rid the land of these monsters using every legal means at their disposal, until the Day that Christians look toward when they will all fall from Jehovah's Sword.
Yes, I view you as a modern-day folk hero, brother.
Derrick
Read all about Silentlambs efforts at http://www.silentlambs.org/
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.
-- William Blake (Auguries of Innocence)
the oasis - a forum for survivors of abuse at the link http://www.aimoo.com/forum/categories.cfm?id=311102&categoryid=17660 is moderated by brothers and sisters who understand the suffering of those who have endured any kind of abuse whatsoever in the watchtower organization at the hands of those they trusted.
it is a place for abused sheep to tell the world about their unique situation, meet others who have also suffered spiritual, mental and emotional cruelty in the organization, and a place to comfort one another and simply talk.. every post is pre-screened by brothers and sisters who recognize the rotten fruit this organization is bearing in the form of poor mental, emotional and spiritual health.
before the post appears publicly, they review its content to protect regular forum participants from flamers and abusers.. participating in this forum is about trust.
Thanks SF you've made my day and I'm sure you've brightened the day of those with oversight over this forum.
Derrick
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.
-- William Blake (Auguries of Innocence)
the oasis - a forum for survivors of abuse at the link http://www.aimoo.com/forum/categories.cfm?id=311102&categoryid=17660 is moderated by brothers and sisters who understand the suffering of those who have endured any kind of abuse whatsoever in the watchtower organization at the hands of those they trusted.
it is a place for abused sheep to tell the world about their unique situation, meet others who have also suffered spiritual, mental and emotional cruelty in the organization, and a place to comfort one another and simply talk.. every post is pre-screened by brothers and sisters who recognize the rotten fruit this organization is bearing in the form of poor mental, emotional and spiritual health.
before the post appears publicly, they review its content to protect regular forum participants from flamers and abusers.. participating in this forum is about trust.
The Oasis - a forum for survivors of abuse at the link http://www.aimoo.com/forum/categories.cfm?id=311102&CategoryID=17660 is moderated by brothers and sisters who understand the suffering of those who have endured any kind of abuse whatsoever in the Watchtower organization at the hands of those they trusted. It is a place for abused sheep to tell the world about their unique situation, meet others who have also suffered spiritual, mental and emotional cruelty in the organization, and a place to comfort one another and simply talk.
Every post is pre-screened by brothers and sisters who recognize the rotten fruit this organization is bearing in the form of poor mental, emotional and spiritual health. Before the post appears publicly, they review its content to protect regular forum participants from flamers and abusers.
Participating in this forum is about trust. You need to cultivate enough trust to tell your experience for the benefit of the countless thousands of "lurkers" who pass through the site daily. Many of those lurkers are Jehovah's Witnesses who are sheltered from the realities of abuse, or simply have repressed personal abuse deep down inside of themselves. Perhaps your post will trigger something deep down that will help someone out there who has suffered similarly?
Please be patient if there is a delay in your post appearing. The volunteers who pre-screen the posts on this forum lead busy lives in this high pressure world. They do their best to logon to the Internet and screen these posts. If you have any questions feel free to view the opening introductory post that is anchored to the top of the forum, and contact this brother. You may also email H2O which hosts this forum, at [email protected] and your email will get a response from an administrator when this email account is checked. If your email is directed specifically to this forum and not to H2O, then your email will get forwarded to a volunteer brother or sister who keeps a watchful eye on this forum.
Although this forum is hosted by H2O, is it really an "island within an island" in that it's the ONLY H2O FORUM TO PRE-SCREEN POSTS.
Having said this, however, many also know that I'm one of the H2O administrators. HOWEVER, I have no decision at present in the process of pre-screening and approving new postings on this forum. Pre-screening posts for public view is left in the capable hands of brothers and sisters to whom H2O has given specific network access privileges for this forum. Because they are trustworthy and willing to devote their time, IMO, you can post there with confidence.
The Oasis - a forum for survivors of abuse is accessible at http://www.aimoo.com/forum/categories.cfm?id=311102&CategoryID=17660 and listed on the menu of forums at http://www.aimoo.com/h2o/ This forum's basic charter is duplicated below.
Forum: The Oasis - a forum for survivors of abuse
Charter summary: Sadly there are many in and out of the Watchtower who have been victims of abuse - sexually, physically and emotionally. This space is for survivor's of such abuse to talk, to share, to vent and to support others who have suffered similarly. This forum is not for wannabe therapists (as well-intentioned as some may be), those looking for converts or trying to bring them closer to Jesus or any other diety. It is also not for people who want survivor's to 'just get over it.' The Forum is meant to be a safe place on the net for you. All posts will be pre-approved, usually within 24 hours if not immediately, to prevent any further abuse or attacks. All participants are encouraged to use a different alias for this Forum than what is used elsewhere to ensure your privacy and safety. So too we recommend blocking your email and using the H20 Private Message feature to communicate. It is secure and cannot be traced to other personal information about you. Please read the introductory post for more cautions on 'safe' participation. [MODERATED -- posts pre-approved usually within 0-24 hours based on moderator availability]"
URL Location: http://www.aimoo.com/forum/categories.cfm?id=311102&CategoryID=17660
Derrick
