Posts by dickelentz

80

A sickening example of religious vampirism

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the link below leads to a webpage for a play entitled it's not too late: a christian drama/musical inspired by the columbine tragedy.. here is the synopsis of the play:.

the story takes place during one day at a high school.. .

mr. brooks is the custodian of the high school.

dickelentz

Rem,

I took some time to consider whether God's judgements are direct
or indirect. The reality is that you'll find a mixture of both in the
Bible as well as in "real" life. Sometimes God's judgements are
direct. But sometimes he simply allows us to suffer the natural
consequences of sin.

Since your issue is with God's direct judgements, I'd like to set
aside the issue of indirect ones for the time being.

Yes, the passages you cite do indicate that children will suffer for
the sins of their parents. And though there are cases where this is
indirect judgement, there are numerous examples where God
deliberately destroyed children along with their parents due to the
parents' sin.

Why did God do this? And does this indicate that God is cruel and
capricious?

My answer is that the existence of sin and evil in the world is a
much bigger issue than most of us are willing to acknowledge.
Without some restraints and controls, society would quickly
unravel due to the inherent weaknesses and sin within each of us. If
God did nothing, things would get worse, not better. That is what I believe both Exodus 20 and Leviticus 26 are about.

Israel had a key role in God's plan address this problem. God
wanted to bless the world though Israel (Genesis 12:1-3). He
intended to reveal himself and his nature through his relationship
with them. But God knew that Israel could easily be led away from
him and would quickly give in to sin. God dealt with Israel sternly
and forcefully to keep them from falling away and being overcome
by their sin nature.

I don't see God's punishment in this case as being cruel. It is rather a matter of justice. God hates sin. God punishes sin in order to keep men from sinning.

All governments exercise justice in order to keep people from
breaking the rules of society. Without a system of justice, all
societies would eventually fall apart and become corrupt. God's
justice is no different. He's just dealing with much bigger issues,
some of which are eternal.

When David was punished for taking taking a census (2 Samuel
24), he didn't blame God nor call God unjust or cruel. We may not
understand why what David did was a sin. But it's clear that David
accepted the consequences for his actions and didn't shake his fist at
God.

But my contention is that even if I understand these verses to be
ones that reflect God's justice (and not cruelty), they are still only
part of the picture. If I stop here, I will never fully understand what God is like.

God is also merciful and loving. I must balance what I read in Leviticus 26 and Exodus 20 and in other verses by verses by what I find elseware.

The Bible says that God punishes sin in order to keep us from
sinning. But God doesn't want us to be punished personally. God
is merciful. He offered a "substitute" to take the punishment for us.

Romans 5:8 says that "God shows his love for us in that while we
were yet sinners, Christ died for us." The rest of Romans 5 talks
about the relevance of this.

If you don't mind, I'd like to get your thoughts on these verses, "the
rest of the story."

80

A sickening example of religious vampirism

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the link below leads to a webpage for a play entitled it's not too late: a christian drama/musical inspired by the columbine tragedy.. here is the synopsis of the play:.

the story takes place during one day at a high school.. .

mr. brooks is the custodian of the high school.

dickelentz

You make some very good points, Rem. I don't find them the least bit boring. In fact, the passage you've cited (Leviticus 26) and the questions you've posed have caused me to give a little more thought to why I come to a different conclusion.

You are right. The tone of the statements is active and not passive. So the question is why do I conclude that some of these judgements are more passive than active?

I didn't come to this conclusion overnight. It came through considerable study of the Bible and trying to make sense of the whole so that the various parts fit together.

Your questions warrant more than just a quick or general response. If you don't mind waiting, let me do a little more thinking on this and I'll get back to you in a day or two.

In the meantime, the passage I would like to deal with is Romans 5. The questions I have for you on this passage are this:

1. What problem is the passage dealing with?
2. What is the source of the problem?
3. What solution does God offer?
4. What, if anything, does this have to do with Leviticus 26?

You don't have to respond to this right now. Just think about it. If you don't mind, I'd like to have a chance to respond to your last post before we move on.

80

A sickening example of religious vampirism

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the link below leads to a webpage for a play entitled it's not too late: a christian drama/musical inspired by the columbine tragedy.. here is the synopsis of the play:.

the story takes place during one day at a high school.. .

mr. brooks is the custodian of the high school.

dickelentz

I took at look at some of these passages. I agree. They do not
represent a single tree but rather many trees. I can't possibly deal
with all of them in one post. But let me try to tackle a couple.

Exodus 34:7 says this: "he punishes the children and their children
for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."

To understand this passage, I went to it's origin in Exodus 20:1-26.
In this passage, God is trying to impress upon Israel the importance
of obedience to Him. He reminds them that He is the God who brought them out of Egypt (vs. 2), summarizes the 10 commandments and points out the consequences of disobedience (vs. 3-18), then reminds Israel that the purpose of these instructions and warnings is not to create fear but to keep them from sinning (vs. 20.)

One of the biggest dangers Israel faced at that time was the negative influence of the pagan nations around them. As God's representatives, the were to live lives different and apart from the
world that surrounded them. They were also to reflect God's nature and His holiness in their lives. They had to be extremely careful lest they get vacuumed up by the evil in the cultures that
surrounded them and become just like them.

God knew that their stubborn nature would make it easy for them
to fall away and disobey him. God identified the consequences of
sin so they would be motivated to avoid the pitfalls of turning their
backs on him. Some of these consequences were the natural result
of letting sin reign in their lives. But the Jewish mindset really
never separated natural consequences of sin from deliberate acts of
God. They were often considered one and the same.

Exodus 20:4-6 indicates that adopting the religion of the
idol-worshippers that surrounded them would have a negative
affect upon their children. In affect, God identified a "rule of
society" that parents' behavior and choices will affect their children.

The bad news is that the wrong choices or bad character of parents
can influence several subequent generations. The good news is that
this is limited. God doesn't say that these negative influences will
last "forever". But the better news is in verse 6. It states that God shows "love to a thousand generations of those who love me and
keep my commandments." God promises that the choice of obedience will influence others positively for hundreds of times longer than the affect of bad choices.

So I don't see this passage as judgement at all, but simply a
statement of fact. Bad character will affect others negatively for a
limited time. But good character will affect others positively for an
immeasurable amount of time.

The next verse, Leviticus 26:22, needs to be taken in context with
all of Leviticus 26. Once again, God is describing the rewards of
obedience and contrasting this with the results of disobedience.

I think the key verses are 11-13. God said that if Israel obeyed,
then "I will put my dwelling place among you and will not abhor
you. I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my
people. "

These verses are consistent with the verses in the Bible that talk
about God's desire to have a personal relationship with people. If
Israel chose to have this relationship with God, they were promised
blessings, peace, protection, and fruitful lives (vs. 3-10). On the
otherhand, if they chose to turn their backs on God, then God said
that He would remove his blessings and they would have to fend for
themselves, suffering drought, turmoil, loss of protection, and
wasted lives (vs. 14-39).

One specific promise was that Israel would be protected from the
wild beasts of the land if they obeyed God (vs. 6). If Israel chose to disobey God, then God said this protection would be removed and
their children would be taken away by wild beasts (vs. 22).

Leviticus 26 is a prophesy about what life would be like without
God's protection. The sad thing is that Israel didn't listen to this
warning and eventually suffered the consequences this loss of
protection. Much what is described in Leviticus 26 eventually took
place.

One thing I try to keep in mind when reading passages like this is
that Israel had (and many feel continues to have) a covenental
relationship with God. This means that God had some unconditional promises he made to Israel on their behalf. But they did have a choice to break the covenant by rejecting God and trying to live life without him. Leviticus 26:40-45 reminded Israel of this
covenant and God's promise to remain their "protector" and
"savior" if they would simply turn away from their sin and come
back to Him.

So those are some of my thoughts about the first two passages.
What are yours? And would you like me to continue on with some
of the others you've listed or are you ready to give some thoughts
to one of mine?

80

A sickening example of religious vampirism

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the link below leads to a webpage for a play entitled it's not too late: a christian drama/musical inspired by the columbine tragedy.. here is the synopsis of the play:.

the story takes place during one day at a high school.. .

mr. brooks is the custodian of the high school.

dickelentz

Dedalus:

You and I are in agreement on this very important issue: If you want to understand the forest, you can't ignore the individual trees. I would agree even further that if you take away any tree, the forest is diminished.

That in my opinion is the problem with most religions. They take things away from the Bible and base their beliefs on what is leftover. Or, they focus on a specific issue here in there and ignore the things they wish not to take into consideration.

JW is like like. It ignores passages that talk about the divinity of Christ and end up misunderstanding the passages that deal with the need for an "atoning" sacrifice. Catholicism traditionally has ignored passages on grace and focused on verses dealing with earning your way into God's favor. The Pentecostal movement emphasizes gifts, especially that of tongues, ignoring verses that contradict their point of view. And many denominations have said you must be baptized to be saved and simply throw out the verse that says "you are saved by faith alone, apart from works of the law" (Romans 3).

All beliefs that ignore a part of scripture are being intellectually dishonest.

That doesn't mean we can make sense of every part of the Bible or explain every verse. I cannot. But that doesn't cause me to give up and throw in the towel and say none of it makes sense. I try to understand the things that are clear and go from there.

This does tie into this thread. My whole contention with the Columbine issue is that violence of this kind has spiritual roots. If we ignore the spiritual side of this issue, we simply aren't seeing the whole picture.

So, lets talk about the trees. I would like to itentify one (a passage, please, not just a statement). If I can give you an answer I will.

80

A sickening example of religious vampirism

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the link below leads to a webpage for a play entitled it's not too late: a christian drama/musical inspired by the columbine tragedy.. here is the synopsis of the play:.

the story takes place during one day at a high school.. .

mr. brooks is the custodian of the high school.

dickelentz

I don't think I'm skirting the issues. I'm trying to place the issues in the context of the Bible as a whole. It's the proverbial "can't see the forest for the trees". I'm trying to describe the forest. You want me to focus on one tree.

Take the issue of the scapegoat. The key problem addressed in the Bible is separation from God caused by sin. God is a just God and must prescribe consequences for sin. But God is also a merciful God and does not want us to have to pay that penalty personally. Thus the importance of the "scapegoat" and the "lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world." God placed the penalty and issue of sin solely on Jesus. Jesus in affect took the penalty for our sin so that God would no longer take account of our sin.

You used words like "intellectual dishonesty" to describe your previous experiences with JW. I would say that to be rational and intellectually honest, a person must consider the Bible as a whole and not use one single issue as indicative of all of it.

Nevertheless, I will take time from looking at the whole to discuss one part of it. Give me a specific passage where you feel God acted unjustly and I'll tell you what I think. Please limit it to one passage so we can focus on an individual incident. Also please provide the reference so we can all be on the same "page".

When we have both have had our say, then I would like to ask for a similar discussion on a passage I will present.

Sound fair?

If so, then it is your move..............

80

A sickening example of religious vampirism

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the link below leads to a webpage for a play entitled it's not too late: a christian drama/musical inspired by the columbine tragedy.. here is the synopsis of the play:.

the story takes place during one day at a high school.. .

mr. brooks is the custodian of the high school.

dickelentz

I suppose I should clarify what I mean by some questions being more important than others.

I tend to take a much broader view of the God and the Bible than is evident in some of the postings I've seen here. I don't see any single verse is being totally representative of God or his nature and try to take a larger look at the Bible as a whole. I try to look at how God's entire plan for the world has unfolded in the past and how it continues to progress forward. This has led me to a different understanding of God's nature and intent for the world than I've seen shared here.

I've given answers to some of your questions although not to the extent to which you desire. For instance, I acknowledge that God has judged evil in the past by destroying people he considered evil. I've also acknowledged that Israel and even Christians have done despicable things "in God's name", things that do not represent God's nature or intent. But I don't think these questions or the answers to them give a complete or clear picture of who God is.

I also readily admit that some questions are unaswerable. For example, I can't answer how an all-knowing God would give Adam and Eve a choice knowing they would make the wrong choice. All I can say is he did give them the choice, they made the wrong one, and we are now living with the consequences. If your criteria for continuing this dialogue is that I must be able to answer every question, then I am unable to meet your requirements.

What I can do is to try to give my sense of what the Bible is about as a whole and how I see all the parts fitting together.

I'm sure we'd all agree that we do not live in a perfect world. One of the big arguments, however, is whether we are inherently good and simply do bad things, or if we are inherently flawed and therefore prone to do bad things.

The Bible is clear on this. It says in Romans 3 that "we all sin and fall short of the glory of God". And Isaiah (53?) says that none of us is righteous ("We like sheep have all gone astray").

In Jesus' day, the Pharisees accepted their flawed nature. Their solution, however, was to come up with a long list of rules that when followed would make them acceptable to God. Jesus' response (in Matthew 5 and 6) was to raise the bar. Jesus said that hatred was equivalent in God's eyes to murder, and lust was equivalent to adultery. Jesus did this to show how far away the Pharaisees were from God's standard of righteousness, so far that it was impossible for any of them to do anything on our own to meet God's standards.

It's like swimming. Most of us can swim. And if God was on an island on a lake a short distance offshore, most people could swim there. But the separation between us and God is so vast that it could be compared to the separation between California and Hawaii. Most of us can swim part of the way there. Be all of us would eventually drown.

This may sound like a message of condemnation. But I don't see it that way. It's just a statement of fact. God's holiness and righteousness is so far out of reach and in some ways so incomprehensible that none of has a hope of understanding it nor being able to achieve it on our own.

If this is where the story ended, then I would fully support anyone's choice to reject the Bible as well as God. I would also be in full agreement that the Bible as well as Christianity was an irrational and perhaps even dangerous belief.

But the Bible doesn't stop with just describing the problem. It gives the solution.

On the Day of Atonement (Leviticus 16) , two goats were offered during the temple sacrifice. The first was sacrificed as an "atonement" for sin. In essence, God was saying, "You have sinned, and you deserve punishment. However, I don't want you to take that punishment upon yourselves. Instead, I will let this sacrifice be your substitute. It will take upon itself the penalty for your sin."

But God did more than this. After the first goat was sacrificed, the priest placed his hands upon the second goat. He symbolically placed the sins of the people on this second goat, then led the goat out to the wilderness to wander far away from camp.

This second goat was called the "scapegoat". God this time was saying, "Not only will I not punish you for your sin. I will take the issue of sin away from you and count your sins against you no more."

One of the Psalms says, "As far as east is from west, that is how far God removes our sins from us." John said (John 1:29), "Behold, here is the lamb of God who comes to take away of the sin of the world." And Jesus said, "I come not to condemn the world, but to save it." (John 3:17).

The core message of the Bible is not about condemnation of sin, but about rescue from the consequences of sin. It is also not a message of what we must do to please God but instead of what God did to remedy the consequences of man's rebellion against Him.

I believe that the rest of the Bible will make little sense outside the context of this message.

80

A sickening example of religious vampirism

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the link below leads to a webpage for a play entitled it's not too late: a christian drama/musical inspired by the columbine tragedy.. here is the synopsis of the play:.

the story takes place during one day at a high school.. .

mr. brooks is the custodian of the high school.

dickelentz

I'm wondering if we're dealing with a disagreement about what God allows and what God approves of.

Because God gives us freewill, we are allowed to do nearly anything. But that doesn't mean that God approves of everything. Paul made this distinction in 1 Corinthians 5,6, and 7. We have the liberty to do practically anyhing. But not all things are beneficial for us. Furthermore, many choices we make are harmful.

Israel frequently stepped outside of God's will and took matters into their own hands. This always resulted in difficulties they never anticipated.

God did call on Israel at times to destroy the evil that surrounded them. But those that might argue that this is an example of God's corruptness should ask what the US or Canada should have done about the Nazi's in World War II. Is it an act of love to let evil thrive and then sit back and do nothing about it? Should the Nazi's have been allowed to continue the massacre of the innocent until no Jew was left alive in Europe? Should Germany have been allowed to continue their drive to control the world until all of us were under their control? What was compassionate in this case, to fight evil, or to let evil thrive?

I would surely hope that a compassionate God would at times approve of the destruction of evil and not allow it to thrive. Some may on a personal basis wish to avoid war and may feel compelled not to be part of process of destroying evil. But God does give men the right to defend themselves. And, more specifically, God frequently called on people to destroy the evil that surrounded them lest that evil take over and draw everyone down into the hell of a corrupt world.

Did God ever call on anyone to rape? I think not. If you have a specific verse, I'd like to see it. Did his people ever commit rape? Yes. But when they did, they weren't doing what God intended.

But again, I think a lot of these are side issues. When I read around this forum, I find many complaints against God. But I believe these complaints ought to be aimed against what some religions say about God and not at God himself.

I sense that many of those who write here have been exposed to a man-made religion that has little to do with who God really is or what he's trying to accomplish. The clue to this is the "rules" I keep hearing about. For example, many say things like this: "I was told to do this, and told to do that. I ended up feeling frustrated and oppressed and just wanted to escape." From what I've read, I don't blame people from feeling this way.

My premise is that ANY religion based on a list of do's and don't's will lead people away from God and not to Him. These religions will also frustrate people to the point that they are driven to jump ship and swim away from God and not towards him. But worse, any religion based on a "You must do this" theology is in direct conflict with the Bible's core message that "we are justified by faith alone, apart from works of the law." (Romans 3).

How do we work around this false conceptions about God and get to an understanding of the core truths of the Bible? And, what measures can we use to determine if someone is on track with their interpretation of the Bible?

80

A sickening example of religious vampirism

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the link below leads to a webpage for a play entitled it's not too late: a christian drama/musical inspired by the columbine tragedy.. here is the synopsis of the play:.

the story takes place during one day at a high school.. .

mr. brooks is the custodian of the high school.

dickelentz

I don't think I'm tap-dancing. What I think is that the issue is much deeper than trying to understand why God ordained certain killings.

God did prohibit men from murdering each other, but did not say that all killing was prohibited.

Many of the laws given to Israel in the book of Exodus were designed to give them an orderly society. God knew that without some guidelines, man with all their imperfections would struggle with doing what was right and best for themselves. God gave guidelines because he loved them. But he also prescribed the consequences of straying from those guidelines. Sometimes the consequences were minor. But sometimes the consequences were quite severe.

Why would God do this? Does this mean he is a mean, angry God that is out to destroy people? I argue that the contrary is true. What kind of a God would allow murder, theft, adultery, rape, or any of the other "major" sins without prescribing some kind of penalty. In fact, if we did not have laws in our society to punish crime, would not the natural result be more crime and not less? For example, if there was no penalty for theft, how many of us would be tempted to shoplift or perhaps even commit grand larceny? Or if there were not severe penalties for murder, would not more people give into their anger or frustration and be tempted to kill others?.

The same goes for God's judgements against nations. Nations themselves can be so corrupt that they are not only a danger to themselves, they become leeches on the world and can end up bringing the whole world down. God dealt harshly with the Canaanites and many other nations not because of their rejection of God, but because as a consequence of their rejection of God they intended to tear apart and destroy everything good thing God was trying to accomplish. Their main target was Israel. Psalm 83 is a good example of their mindset. But their deeper desire was not just to destroy Israel but to eliminate God's presence and influence in the world.

Why would they want to do this? I think it ties directly to Genesis 3.

Adam and Eve had everything they needed. The world was made perfect for them, and God gave them permission to enjoy everything he'd created. He asked only one thing of them: (my paraphrase) "Don't take on the responsibility of determining right from wrong. Don't eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. That is my perrogative. I will determine right from wrong. What you need to do is trust Me in that area of life."

Satan wanted to tear apart the relationship between Adam and Eve. He used some very crafty arguements to do so: (again my paraphrase). "Did God REALLY say that? You know, he's really trying to hold back something good from you. You really will be much better off if you ignore what He said. Besides, you will be just like him if you just ignore the instruction."

At the base, all of us want to be in charge of our own lives. Few of us enjoy having someone else say "This is best for you. Just trust me." Most of us want to make this decision for ourselves. Satan used that desire to draw Adam and Eve into sin.

God gave Adam and Eve freewill. He could have created them robots, but instead gave them a choice. They chose not to trust God in the only area he put restrictions on. The consequence was that they lost that personal and intimate relationship God wanted to have with them.

The part of the passage that is relevant for this discussion is what happened next. God said there would be consequences for their rejection of Him and his instruction. Their world would no longer be perfect, and they would struggle physically in ways God never intended. And, instead of living eternally as God intended, death would now be their destiny. But God also talked about a struggle that would continue for a very long time - a struggle between he who "bruises on the heal" and He who will "bruise him on the head". I believe this passage is referring to the struggle that would exist from that point on between good and evil. Evil would have it's time in the sun. But ultimately God would give victory over evil in a way that dealt with it completely and permanently.

Something else happened here that is important to understanding what happens in the rest of the Bible. Adam and Eve thought the solution to their problem was to create fig leaf skirts to hide their nakedness. God said their personal efforts to correct the situation were inadequate. He then proceeded to kill an animal and create a covering for their bodies. He could now look at them and not consider their sin an issue because of something he did for them - something they were unable to do for themselves.

This single act of God (and the first recorded death in the Bible) established how God would restore the relationship broken through Adam and Eve's sin. As Paul later pointed out in Hebrews, "the forgiveness of sin comes only through the sacrifice of blood." God offered the first sacrifice, then gave instructions later (in Exodus and Leviticus) on sacrifices that were to be offered daily to atone for sin. But God ultimately sacrificed himself (through Jesus) as an atonement for our sin. This was prophecied in Isaiah 53, and then connected to Jesus when John said, "Behold, here is the lamb of god who comes to take away the sin of the world." (John 1:29).

That's God's solution. The problem is that most of the world has historically stood against this solution. Many nations (and individuals for that matter) are more predisposed to come up with their own way to God or to turn away from God rather than accepting the provision God has given.

God for the most part allows that. But at times, the evil of some individuals and some nations is so intense that God deals with it decisively in order to prevent that evil from bringing down the rest of the world.

80

A sickening example of religious vampirism

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the link below leads to a webpage for a play entitled it's not too late: a christian drama/musical inspired by the columbine tragedy.. here is the synopsis of the play:.

the story takes place during one day at a high school.. .

mr. brooks is the custodian of the high school.

dickelentz

It is my opinion that the verses you listed cannot be answered without an understanding of who God is and what He's trying to accomplish. It is also my premise that if we don't undertand what the overall message of the Bible is and what God is trying to communicate through it that the Bible as a whole will make little sense.

Many religions lift passages out of the Bible and use them to come up with their own distorted view of who God is. There's been an immeasurable amount of anguish and harm caused by those who have twisted God's word in this way, creating manmade religions that have little to do with God's true nature. Using a warped view of the Bible as a basis for discussion will never lead to an understanding of who God is and will cause many to reject God.

However, I do believe that if we can find what the central message of the Bible is that nearly all of it will make sense. I compare this belief to the workings of the wheels on a covered wagon. Everything revolves around the hub. If the hub is weak, then the whole wheel will eventually fall apart and the wagon won't function. But if the hub is sound, then the rest can fall in place.

I don't believe your questions are the "hub of the wheel". Furthermore, I don't think they can be answered rationally without knowing what the "hub of the wheel" is.

I believe the "hub" of the Bible is found in Genesis 1-3. These chapters describe a perfect world, one that God created and then called "good". God created a perfect man, a perfect women, a perfect human relationship, and a perfect place to live in.

What's more, chapter 3 indicates that God walked in the garden with the ones whom he created. I interpret this to be a literal physical reality. God not only intended for us to have perfect lives and a perfect world, he also wanted a perfect, personal, and intimate
relationship with us.

The lives of those first two people were complete. They were emotionally, physically, and spiritually fulfilled. God intended for them to live eternally in this perfect state.

The interesting thing is that the first 3 chapters of Genesis closely parallel the last 3 chapters of Revelation. These passages are near mirror images of each other. For example, Revelation 21 describes the perfect world once again, one where there is no death, no sorrow, and no tears. It also describes a world where God once again literally dwells among men.

And so, though your questions are important, I think the more crucial questions are these:

1. What happened to the perfect world described in Genesis 2 and 3?

2. Is today's world what God intended it to be, or is the world in the first 3 chapters and the last 3 chapters of the Bible more representative of God's intent?

3. If today's world is not what God intended it to be, what if anything has God done about it?

I would be curious to see your answers to these questions. But I may not be able to respond to your posts for a few days due to other commitments.

Note that this discussion could be continued in another thread if that seems more appropriate to do so and if someone wants to get it rolling. But I don't mind continuing it here, and I do think it ties into some of the original discussion.

80

A sickening example of religious vampirism

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the link below leads to a webpage for a play entitled it's not too late: a christian drama/musical inspired by the columbine tragedy.. here is the synopsis of the play:.

the story takes place during one day at a high school.. .

mr. brooks is the custodian of the high school.

dickelentz

Sounds like a reasonable approach. How do we set one up?